Stupid question frost mage

[cockaroo]

I am usually arcane, but go frost for CM's. We just started, and are 6/9 gold, so there's not a problem with getting golds, but I am not happy with my performance and dps. When I go to freeze, a lot of time when I click, I end up targeting something else, or even targeting a tank or melee, thus wasting dps. Sometimes in tight quarters, it's tough to get a freeze down without mistargeting. Is there any way around this? Also, I'm pretty unhappy with my dps. I am averaging around 70k, and it seems like i am hitting a perfect rotation.

[Terrax]

I am usually arcane, but go frost for CM's. We just started, and are 6/9 gold, so there's not a problem with getting golds, but I am not happy with my performance and dps. When I go to freeze, a lot of time when I click, I end up targeting something else, or even targeting a tank or melee, thus wasting dps. Sometimes in tight quarters, it's tough to get a freeze down without mistargeting. Is there any way around this? Also, I'm pretty unhappy with my dps. I am averaging around 70k, and it seems like i am hitting a perfect rotation.

Sorry, i can´t answer your question. But i have another question to you:

Is frost the only possible Specc for CMs? What about Arcane and Fire? Can you tell me some of your experiences?

[cockaroo]

I haven't experimented with the others enough to tell you. I'm sure it can be done with all specs without a problem, but I just don't know enough to tell you which spec would be best for what cm. I'm sure weird things can be done with arcane and invoc, etc that could be viable in that situation. Since the gear scales down, im not sure how fire could be viable in that situation, but i really don't know.

[Deleted]

You can do /target <NPC name> macros for specific mobs. Or use focus frames.

[cockaroo]

I'm also slightly confused about icy veins glyph, and whether I should be trying to use it. Should I not be using IV during hero? I usually macro IV to my alter time since they are on the same CD, but it usually gets used during a hero at some point. Not sure what my stats even are in a CM setup since the gear gets scaled down.

---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 05:30 PM ----------

You can do /target <NPC name> macros for specific mobs. Or use focus frames.

Not quite sure I understand what you mean here. In CM's, I don't understand how that would even be an option. How are focus frames going to help me in this situation? I'm not sure if you're confused or I am.

[Methusula]

I'm also slightly confused about icy veins glyph, and whether I should be trying to use it. Should I not be using IV during hero? I usually macro IV to my alter time since they are on the same CD, but it usually gets used during a hero at some point. Not sure what my stats even are in a CM setup since the gear gets scaled down.

---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 05:30 PM ----------



Not quite sure I understand what you mean here. In CM's, I don't understand how that would even be an option. How are focus frames going to help me in this situation? I'm not sure if you're confused or I am.

A target last target macro could help, but honestly it's just a clunky mechanic and that will happen from time to time. As for IV, you should not use it during BL if it is not glyphed. If you have enough haste to be gcd capped during BL you can glyph it and then using during BL isn't an issue.

I haven't bothered with CM's too much yet, largely because I find the gear unintentionally hilarious. I have picked up a few tips from guildies who have successfully completed all gold.

[cockaroo]

Hrm, sounds like i need to remove it from my alter time macro then. I'll check next time i roll into a cm whether or not i am haste capped (glyph-wise). Even so, at this point, is it worth giving up another glyph for the icy veins glyph? CoC can be strong, ice lance is a must it seems, and I don't want to get rid of water ele glyph since I don't play frost and have no interest in managing that bastrd.

[Deleted]

As for the freeze i suspect you are pressing your mouse before you press the spell, if you press spell and get the AOE marker you should in no way change target(i assume you have sticky target as well). Also always cast freeze while another spell is in channel or you have GCD from an instant cast.

As for glyphs they are very situational, the only glyph i always use is IV cause im capped, the rest i change on per fight basis, but ofc as for CM's ice lance is prolly a winner as well. I never use CoC spell as i feel there is always a better option(no math)

[Terrax]

And what bomb is used as an frost mage? And what ultimate talent, like ring of power or invocation?

[Deleted]

If u have Light of cosmos from elegon: Nethertempest or Living Bomb.
If u dont have Light of Cosmos: Frostbomb.
90er talent is normally Invocation as is synergizes very well with haste.

[Malfecto]

I like Cone of Cold, Ice lance and icy veins glyph for CMs. I feel these give you the most aoe burst which is what you really want for CM trash. You will notice the difference in cleaving Ice lance under the IV buff, especially when you let loose a Frozen Orb. Also, I feel frost bomb gives the most bang for its buck on large trash packs versus the other bombs.

Really, in the tight spaces of dungeons, I haven't had to worry as much about managing my Water Ele positioning as I do in larger areas of raid where I might have to move a lot, like in Amber Shaper or Wind Lord's room.

[Deleted]

as from my experience with 9/9 gold in october i can tell this:

- Frost is by far the best specc in challenge modes

- Frost Bomb is superior lvl 75 talent because of most bomb dps - most of the instances you just spent the main time in bombing/cleaving trash

- Invocation is the best lvl 90 talent

- Glyph of Icy Veins is a good AoE option i would suggest for the most instances, glyph of ice lance is mandatory

- be careful and think about frozen orb usage - u need to hit this in big trash packs to maximise dps

- use pet freeze on cd but watch out about ur melees - i just announced it most of the times in voice to let my tank know that he has to be in melee range so that our rogue didnt get oneshottet

- maximise alter time usage, pot-uptime, pre-pot

imo, mage is one of the better classes in challenge modes dps wise, packs with frozen orb i was on top of the dps, packs without orb rather behind. On bosses, especially with bloodlust, we are pretty fine.

[Terrax]

as from my experience with 9/9 gold in october i can tell this:

- Frost is by far the best specc in challenge modes

- Frost Bomb is superior lvl 75 talent because of most bomb dps - most of the instances you just spent the main time in bombing/cleaving trash

- Invocation is the best lvl 90 talent

- Glyph of Icy Veins is a good AoE option i would suggest for the most instances, glyph of ice lance is mandatory

- be careful and think about frozen orb usage - u need to hit this in big trash packs to maximise dps

- use pet freeze on cd but watch out about ur melees - i just announced it most of the times in voice to let my tank know that he has to be in melee range so that our rogue didnt get oneshottet

- maximise alter time usage, pot-uptime, pre-pot

imo, mage is one of the better classes in challenge modes dps wise, packs with frozen orb i was on top of the dps, packs without orb rather behind. On bosses, especially with bloodlust, we are pretty fine, without also not being one of the worst classes.

Thanks, that helped a lot!

One last question, i promise
What spell do you use for AoE? Blizzard? AE? Or nothing, just Icy Veins, and Frost orb?

[Deleted]

why last question - forums are there to share experience and discuss about it

I hardly ever casted aoe spells (i think even arcane explosion does more dps than blizzard if im right?!) and just did everything with icy veins, frost bomb, frozen orb

[Malfecto]

Frost bomb, frozen orb, cleave ice lance, cone of cold is plenty aoe, especially with the IV glyph. you can toss in a flamestrike right as the pack gathers on your tank if you want, then orb, and move from there. Blizzard doesn't really return much in a CM situation over other tools you have.

[Libretto]

I never glyph IV in challenge modes. You won't be able to get enough haste to GCD cap at CM ilevel, and even if you do, IV is not an "aoe" cooldown, so I have no idea why people are suggesting it is. All the IV glyph does is turn IV from 20% haste into 20% damage to prevent GCD capping above a very easy to reach haste breakpoint in raids.

Your trash aoe in CMs is going to be about 50% frost bomb shatters, 25% ice lance and 25% frozen orb. If you want to improve trash DPS, stack mastery. Essentially, just use arcane gemming and reforging. Haste stacking is a bit better on bosses, but trash is where most of your time is spent in CMs and virtually all trash can be frozen, so mastery is considerably stronger.

Also, I -personally- only use flamestrike in four places in CMs: First trash pull in Jade Serpent, First trash pull in SPM, first trash pull after the second boss in Scholo, and first trash pull in Gate. Flamestrike is only worth using if there is a very high number of targets to hit which will live long enough for the DOT to make the spell worth casting over more ice lances or other spells that give immediate damage results.

[Malfecto]

Well, on short CM trash fights, you could say the 20% IV glyph front end damage is more valuable in cleaving Ice lances than not, especially with frozen orb proccing so many. On the 6 pull in halls after Harlan, I can well clear over 300k dps. We run with an elemental shaman though, so I'm at 36% haste buffed anyway.

But yea, mastery is a great way to push the envelope.

[Libretto]

Malfecto, assuming this is your mage: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Raves/advanced - you reeeeeeally should not suggest IV glyph till you've done any golds. :P

IV glyph certainly does provide good burst with frozen orb on trash. However, it's a 3 minute cooldown, so it's a waste of a major glyph spot. Glyphing any two of cone of cold, deep freeze or water elemental (on top of the obvious ice lance glyph) will all provide more overall damage in CMs than the IV glyph possibly will.

[Malfecto]

Hey look, I'm just passing on my experience, as are you. I get better throughput in practical terms, that's all I'm saying. I did mention CoC glyph as well. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

[Bopcommander]

In my guild we just started doing Challenge Modes last weekend and hopefully finish them up this weekend. I'd read multiple people saying Frost is the way to go. So I went frost. Reforged and regemmed for Frost. But my DPS on the bosses was terrible. And I never play frost, so I'm not 100% comfortable with the play style because I don't play it as much as Arcane or Fire. I ended up going back to Arcane with RoP, but I kept my haste set up.

On AOE pulls, I kept Nether Tempest as my bomb. I have a mouse over macro so I just spam it over my targets and use Flamestrike. And then get to a 6 stack of our Arcane Debuff and Arcane Barrage. Rinse and Repeat.

For the single target I would do our normal rotation for Arcane and use scorch weave. With lust I can still do upwards of 100k+ dps on a single target.

In my opinion, play the spec you know in and out and you are 100% comfortable playing in every situation.

Our set up btw is:

DK Tank, Feral Druid, Survival Hunter, Holy/Disc Priest, and myself an Arcane Mage.