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  1. #1

    How much is to much overhealing?

    Well, me and my guild were trying to do Tsulong and I noticed our resto druid, well, sucking. One of the other members swears that the druid is great. So, I went over the logs and noticing that their overhealing is really, Really high. I read a few guides to look over their uptime on some of the key spells and saw they were all low. Lifebloom only broke 60% uptime once. They were also oom on our best attempt and didn't call out for help on the debuff, which was our second day phase.

    So, im going to link the logs. I want to know if in your opinion they are a good or bad druid. I want to know how much over healing is to be expected of a druid since they have mostly all hots, and what all the druid in question is doing wrong. It prevented us from downing tsulong last week and I want to get it fixed with as much info on my end as possible by tomorrow.

    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-j87uleecjbge3jyn/

    If you have any info from a glance for my monk or the paladin too let me know. Anything to get more numbers is appreciated.

  2. #2
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    I am afraid I can't look at logs now but it sounds like he's used to Cata rejuv blanketing. It's going to cause you to be oom and overheal like crazy with as much heal sniping that happens. Lifebloom, swiftmend and WG will be a large source of healing. Keeping all hots rolling in tsulong during day phase, using NS after the breath, tranq, etc. rejuv when you know burst damage is imminent.

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  3. #3
    Over 9000! apepi's Avatar
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    When he is going oom and you are dieing because of it.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by apepi View Post
    When he is going oom and you are dieing because of it.
    We were dieing because of it. We had to three heal the first boss of Terrace because he was incapable of two healing it without going oom before the third one was even active. On tsulong we only got the boss to 84% and he was oom nearly each attempt by second day phase with no hope in sight. If you mean something else i dont know it.

  5. #5
    He's focused on rejuv. Even has the glyph for it. But mana cost for rejuv is too high to spam it. Really, you should only rejuv people who need heals, aren't in danger of dying without a quick full heal and on whom the hot will tick (i.e. not if the other healer is going to heal them up and make your hot overheal. I'd make sure he and the other healer are communicating so that he doesn't rejuv people who the other healer has a heal going for and in general, move away from heavy rejuv use. He should be fine then.
    Last edited by clevin; 2013-01-08 at 04:22 AM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    He's focused on rejuv. Even has the glyph for it. But mana cost for rejuv is too high. I'd make sure he and the other healer are communicating so that he doesn't rejuv people who the other healer has a heal going for and in general, move away from heavy rejuv use. He should be fine then.
    What about the overhealing amounts they are doing? Is it way to high? Is the only thing they need to do stop rejuv so much? They tried to two heal a fight and couldn't. We ended up having to three heal the first boss because of them. Sadly, they wont communicate either. Our best shot on tsulong was ruined because they didn't let us know they were too oom.

  7. #7
    From what i see using 3 heals is causing your kill to take too long... meaning you dont have the dps to kill it fast with 3 heals. Instead of blaming the druid you should all focus on doing more dps . Having people at 40k or below is a big issue especially when you 3man heal on 10man. Besides low % on lifebloom which might be due to your druid doing other stuff or being fear when standing in front of the boss in day phase i see your 2 tanks are doing way too low damage on this boss.. I would suggest try 2man heal and use your boomkin traq to top people up if needed . Also ask your rdruid to give symbiosis on your spriest to have one extra traq in case you need more healing. How are you handling adds? is it ok ? So before blaming the rdruid you should also check on the rest of the raid . Also in case you miss dps tell your rdruid to spec heart of wild talent so he can dps the boss for 45 secs helping the dps in night phase . Doing all this should ensure a kill.

    p.s. tell your monk to use cocoon more ..
    Last edited by apostoloss; 2013-01-08 at 04:34 AM.

  8. #8
    His overheal is around 35% which isn't really that bad. However, lack of communication is deadly. But he seems to be casting Innervate on CD on a couple of fights and using mana pots. Overall the DPS seems a bit low but Tsulong's a weird fight that way.

  9. #9
    Hi, Only had a quick look at the two longer attemps (above 8 minutes). As other said.
    Too little lifebloom (should be ~100% uptime) and can be switched with the Glyph.
    Replace Reju-Glyph with Lifebloom glyph (he uses about 10 Nourish per fight.... so he does not need that Glyph)
    Life bloom will give him more OOC procs which can be used for expensive heals (regrowth for example.) This also explains his low Harmony uptime (70/80%) which will go up if he cast more spells in general, and they are free with ooc procs.
    Incanration (Tree of Life, he has the Talent) and Lifebloom spam helps saving mana in heal heavy phasses too.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by apostoloss View Post
    From what i see using 3 heals is causing your kill to take too long... meaning you dont have the dps to kill it fast with 3 heals. Instead of blaming the druid you should all focus on doing more dps . Having people at 40k or below is a big issue especially when you 3man heal on 10man. Besides low % on lifebloom which might be due to your druid doing other stuff or being fear when standing in front of the boss in day phase i see your 2 tanks are doing way too low damage on this boss.. I would suggest try 2man heal and use your boomkin traq to top people up if needed . Also ask your rdruid to give symbiosis on your spriest to have one extra traq in case you need more healing. How are you handling adds? is it ok ? So before blaming the rdruid you should also check on the rest of the raid . Also in case you miss dps tell your rdruid to spec heart of wild talent so he can dps the boss for 45 secs helping the dps in night phase . Doing all this should ensure a kill.

    p.s. tell your monk to use cocoon more ..
    We have already established that the druid and our holy paladin are unable to two heal the fights. Our holy paladin Did two heal a fight with a disc priest earlier, but some reason the rdruid can't two heal. Ill be sure to tell our dps to step it up as well on their end. Two healing sadly isn't a good choice for us with the rdruid and paladin combo.

  11. #11
    If you're able to 2 heal the fight until the druid runs out of mana then decreasing his overheal will help that as will smart communications so that he's not having heals sniped and thus mana wasted. Obviously higher dps = shorter fight = less mana needed. Similarly, people need to get in sunbeams and drop stacks in a timely fashion (no, hey, I have 15 stacks, where's the sunbeam?) and tanks using defensive CDs well.

  12. #12
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    He's not using swiftmend nearly on cooldown, nor is he using tranquility very often. Is he making sure to NS + Heal tsulong when he has sun breath? And pop a tranquility there? I would suggest he read the guides posted here for resto, he needs to get out of the Cataclysm model of healing.

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    If you're able to 2 heal the fight until the druid runs out of mana then decreasing his overheal will help that as will smart communications so that he's not having heals sniped and thus mana wasted. Obviously higher dps = shorter fight = less mana needed. Similarly, people need to get in sunbeams and drop stacks in a timely fashion (no, hey, I have 15 stacks, where's the sunbeam?) and tanks using defensive CDs well.
    We aren't two healing. The druid has even More mana issues when we try to two heal. We tried to two heal the first boss and the druid went oom before the first guy was even dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    He's not using swiftmend nearly on cooldown, nor is he using tranquility very often. Is he making sure to NS + Heal tsulong when he has sun breath? And pop a tranquility there? I would suggest he read the guides posted here for resto, he needs to get out of the Cataclysm model of healing.
    That is why I am here. They are not only Not doing that, but most of the time are not even touching the boss with any heals. They say its because they are raid healing, but I did raid heals and still managed to get higher on the boss when I tried.

  14. #14
    Oh I see. Yeah, they need to spam heal Tsulong. The Sun Breath will regen their mana so that's not a worry, really. I can't imagine the druid needing to heal so much he ooms before the first Protector is dead. He's either WAY overhealing, the raid is taking a LOT of avoidable damage or he's having to cover for the Pally or... I dunno. Looking at the Protector kill his overheal was 25% which just isn't that bad (http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-j8...7/?s=383&e=859). He's WGing and Rejuving a lot though, so that will suck mana. Of course, there's a lot of raid damage in that parse...

  15. #15
    It sounds to me like your druid needs to brush up on the basics. You never really want to let your lifebloom stacks fall off for one. If you don't have lifebloom stacks rolling you won't proc omen of clarity. OOC is pretty much how druids spot heal now without going oom. Any topping up that needs to be done and I do mean NEEDs to be done should be with regrowth. Wild growth and Rejuv are what are gonna get you on the meters. It's the harder part to explain and it takes a bit of feel to get right. If 3 or more targets are taking damage then hit wildgrowth but if its just tanks getting hit and no raid damage its kind of a mana drain. Rejuv is how you test your mana against your current gear level. You wanna have lifebloom and a rejuv ticking on the tank thats taking the most damage also throw a rejuv on the other tank if theres more than one. Now heres the part that you gotta feel for. On fights with a lot of damage going out you should be throwing atleast a few out onto the raid where it can tick. This is whats gonna give you a good showing on the meters. Rejuv and wildgrowth are almost always 1 and 2 on my healing done. followed by either swiftmend lifebloom or regrowth depending on the fight.

    Make sure he uses any on use spirit buffs and his innervate as soon as he can get full use out of it that way he can get it back as soon as possible. Its not that hard to get 3 or 4 innervates on certain fights.

    A little trick for mana for any druid struggling is to hit tree of life usually during a heavy damage phase but early like any other mana cooldown so it will come back as soon as possible. Tree of life lets you blanket the raid with lifebloom and gives you a ton of OOC procs and instant regrowths to boot. Lifebloom is a very efficient heal and it can let your other healers chill a bit if you have it blanketing.

    On Tsulong Heals = DPS. My guild always 3 heals it always have. A tip is to keep your healers away from the dps at the start far enough to miss a bloodlust on the pull. then have another bloodlust when the phase changes. Also for a druid on tsulong you want to save your CDs until right before a breath. When you see the breath pop TOL and NV or any on use throughput cds you have for the first one and mash instant cast Regrowth on the boss even when I had really bad gear I could pull around 100k hps on tsulong. On the 2nd breath pop your berserking or any haste cooldowns you might have. You want to get at least a few good heals with the buff on you. NS either HT or regrowth all that kind of stuff.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-07 at 10:53 PM ----------

    There are also fights that druids just usually wont do well in. Like the first boss in HOF sucks to be a druid especially if you have a good shammy or something with good raid CDs. The fights that were really made for druid healing are the ones were the damage is always constant but rarely crushing. Garalon is a good example.

  16. #16
    Here is a log to my guilds first kill (2-3 days ago).

    Edit: cant post links, look for guild 143775 on WoL 3rd january

    I dont raid myself but our composition is fairly similar healwise (druid, pala, h-priest). Though we have more dps so he dies quite early.

    Our log: Flat total healing in night phase. three peaks in day phase (tsulong breath= buff). your log has some peaks but it looks like not all the healers always get the buff or use it properly. Our druid pushes about 16 Mio into Tsulong in 100 sec. mainly using glyphed regrowth, lifebloom and and secondary wildgrowth and reju. The total healing of our healers during that phase peaks at 600k hps - 800khps (first day phase) and 1.1M hps (second day phase) just before he "dies" your healers total peaks at 420k, so they are not using the buff/their spells properly I assume. The healing during nightphase is comparable though.

    This healing style (for a druid) is not recommended for other bosses though (you will go oom really fast), so typically regrowth is only used when you have an ooc proc. Hope it helps. But as the poster before mentiones HPS = DPS in day phase.
    Last edited by Zens; 2013-01-08 at 08:10 AM.

  17. #17
    Make him cast swiftmend on cooldown.

    That is the most essential task for druids and probably the easiest as well.

  18. #18
    As i said earlier "I would suggest try 2man heal and use your boomkin traq to top people up if needed . Also ask your rdruid to give symbiosis on your spriest to have one extra traq in case you need more healing. . Also in case you miss dps tell your rdruid to spec heart of wild talent so he can dps the boss for 45 secs helping the dps in night phase . Doing all this should ensure a kill."

    You have a spriest and a boomkin so the boomkin can innervate and the spriest cast hymn to help him with mana + mana pot should be enough even if he gets oomed. In worse case tell him to place mushrooms while oom to help him abit with mana. If all this is not enough then the raid is taking more damage than usual so something is wrong with the strategy.

    When the druid is oomed tell him to activate wild of heart talent and do dps (spamming wrath) this will help your raid's dps and by the time the talent expires he should have at least 50k mana to start healing again.

    Also tell him to use traq at least one more time during the fight its a 3min cd so in a 8min fight he could use it 2 times

  19. #19
    Make sure you are not currently comparing your RDruid to a Disc Priest. We have "decent' thoroughput but nothing compared to a disc priest who knows his stuff atm (or a pally for that matter). It is still 2 healable with a rdruid, but it is definitely harder.

  20. #20
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    While I'm not a hardcore healer, Druids are the #1 overhealer due to HoTs. 60% uptime on LB is pretty laughable though.

    I'd recommend telling him or her to look into their class a bit more.

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