Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    Yeah as many have pointed out here, frost is definitely competitive if not outright better than fire. Even so, arcane is where the deeps is at, by a large margin.

  2. #22
    *Sorry for hyjacking the thread. Also did in another, don't shoot me.

    I am currently playing the fire spec at 475ilvl with non optimized gear pieces (some).
    I found myself a guild to start raiding with (they are 6/6 msv 3/6 HoF) and the first raid is comming up.
    So i was wondering if the difference between fire and arcane is big enough to just respec immediatly ?
    I like playing fire but i wouldn't mind switching for the better spec and if this is the case i would have a couple of days left to fish for some extra gear.

  3. #23
    Herald of the Titans zephid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    2,839
    Quote Originally Posted by Hauhet View Post
    I'm in a guild which I currently love and very settled at however officers give me truckloads of abuse if I play frost which is my favourite spec.

    Is fire as good as they say? and how can I prove that other specs are viable
    Fire is not as good as they say. Arcane is currently the top DPS spec for mages.

  4. #24
    @Elgierro:
    We are atm 6/6 MSV and 4/6 HoF so nearly the same as your guild.
    I top the raidmeter as Frost nearly all the time. I dont get the rotation of fire. Im just to stupid for it. I tried arcane 2-3 times but dont feel comfortable.
    So i hocked up at frost which i play since classic and its fine.
    In such a no progressionraid u should allway play what u want. U are better with that. If and only if u say to yourself that u are behind then u can try to respecc. Otherwise stay fire.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    http://www.raidbots.com/dpsbot/Spec_...11100000000000
    Frost is third-worst on average, only in front of Arms and Elemental.

    However:

    http://www.simulationcraft.org/510/Raid_T14H.html
    Frost is third-best, behind Arcane and Affliction, when played perfectly.
    So what is the conclusion? If the question is "can I raid as Frost? does that gimp my raid?" the answers are yes and no, if you are playing frost correctly. The only caveat as many have pointed out is whether you are in a high end raid guild, which I suspect the OP is not. The vast majority of raiding happens at 10N, and Frost is plenty good for that.

    If you look at raidbots overall dps for 10N, except for the few outliers, all specs are within a range of 10k. I.e. they are VERY close to each other, and the difference is made by the player playing the class/spec correctly.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by scuac View Post
    So what is the conclusion? If the question is "can I raid as Frost? does that gimp my raid?" the answers are yes and no, if you are playing frost correctly. The only caveat as many have pointed out is whether you are in a high end raid guild, which I suspect the OP is not. The vast majority of raiding happens at 10N, and Frost is plenty good for that.

    If you look at raidbots overall dps for 10N, except for the few outliers, all specs are within a range of 10k. I.e. they are VERY close to each other, and the difference is made by the player playing the class/spec correctly.
    Pretty much. That doesn't mean Frost is viable for progress raiding atm though. And neither is fire unless the conditions are really bad for arcane.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Hauhet View Post
    I'm in a guild which I currently love and very settled at however officers give me truckloads of abuse if I play frost which is my favourite spec.

    Is fire as good as they say? and how can I prove that other specs are viable
    It depends on so much. Are you guys progressing? Are you close to a kill? Are you pulling your weight? I gotta admit, I kind of cringe when I see threads like this. Yes, you should be able to play what you want to a certain extent. But you are a part of a group. And compromise is a part of being in a group. And I have to question how you can be in a guild that you love, and take truckloads of abuse at the same time. Are you exaggerating? Are you trying to get people on your side?
    Perfect example of why "community" forums are poisonous to the health of a development team. These developers are wasting hundreds of hours trying to stem the tide of incessant bitchery that would never, ever abate so long as these entitled, unfortunate human beings don't get their way.

  8. #28
    Blademaster Hauhet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Newcastle, England
    Posts
    30
    I'm in a heroic 25m raiding guild that's currently 6/6 vaults hc and 6/6 HoF hc I don't believe I'm holding the raid back at all there's fights like spirit kings where I dominate the meters but on fights like elegon I fall behind the other mages who play fire only.

    I love the guild as a whole but it's the range dps officer (who's a Mage) always seems to single me out and patronise me about my spec choice.

    The main aim of this thread was to get input from other mages and their thoughts on the three specs and I greatly appreciate all those who have given me positive feedback
    Last edited by Hauhet; 2013-01-09 at 10:08 AM.

  9. #29
    Brewmaster Dutchmagoz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    1,296
    If you're 12/16HC, you should definately play arcane. (With the exception of some fights)

  10. #30
    The Patient Berkhtar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Frankfurt / Germany
    Posts
    273
    Arcane is the way to go for high-end raiding.

    Fire is competitve with about ilvl 500 again... Frost ist in most cases mediocre.

  11. #31
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Colchester, land of the squaddies, UK
    Posts
    5,579
    Quote Originally Posted by scuac View Post
    So what is the conclusion? If the question is "can I raid as Frost? does that gimp my raid?" the answers are yes and no, if you are playing frost correctly.
    The conclusion is that you can always raid as Frost regardless of DPS output, but there is a large difference between an average Frost player and a Frost player who plays perfectly, so your milage may vary.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 1/6/7 | TPR: 0.5/3.5/4
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Glyphmaster Gunhaver | Avatar by Hasana-chan

  12. #32
    Mechagnome Stravs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Uk Cumbrian Lake District
    Posts
    728
    Quote Originally Posted by Hauhet View Post
    I'm in a guild which I currently love and very settled at however officers give me truckloads of abuse if I play frost which is my favourite spec.

    Is fire as good as they say? and how can I prove that other specs are viable

    Who pays your wow sub? ... them or you?

    Play whatever >you< feel like playing
    i5 2500k @ 4.2ghz-Asus Sabertooth P67 B3 8gb Corsair XMS-3
    EVGA GTX 670 4tw 4gb
    CreativeX-Fi Titanium Pro paired with (Corsair SP2500)
    Corsair HX850
    250gb Samsung 840 ssd
    Silverstone Raven 3

  13. #33
    I strongly disagree with stating out raidbots.com (i cannot quote until now ) as a reference. Frost would go with a much higher average dps if it would be the top dps specc and every player (especially the competitive and top players) would stick with it. But as everyone goes with arcane dps-wise, frost and fire raidbot-dps does not show its full potential and furthermore it does not have the appropriate number of samples the top dps specc has (arcane 15000, frost 1500 which is 10%).

    Back to topic: In my opinion - stick with what you are comfortable with, arcane is best dps-wise but frost and fire are also viable right now.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Hauhet View Post
    I'm in a guild which I currently love and very settled at however officers give me truckloads of abuse if I play frost which is my favourite spec.

    Is fire as good as they say? and how can I prove that other specs are viable
    realistic dps in 496 gear both arcane and frost do over 15k more dps than fire http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/realistic-dps

  15. #35
    I am Murloc! Firebert's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Colchester, land of the squaddies, UK
    Posts
    5,579
    Quote Originally Posted by vamonos View Post
    realistic dps in 496 gear both arcane and frost do over 15k more dps than fire http://www.noxxic.com/wow/dps-rankings/realistic-dps
    Again, Noxxic isn't accurate. You either go with what everyone's actually doing in game (average raidbots) or maximum theoretical (Simcraft), and draw your conclusions from those.
    37 + (3*7) + (3*7)
    W/L/Death count: Wolf: 0/1/1 | Mafia: 1/6/7 | TPR: 0.5/3.5/4
    SK: 0/1/1 | VT: 1.5/3.5/5 | Cult: 1/0/1
    Glyphmaster Gunhaver | Avatar by Hasana-chan

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Firebert View Post
    Again, Noxxic isn't accurate. You either go with what everyone's actually doing in game (average raidbots) or maximum theoretical (Simcraft), and draw your conclusions from those.
    ofc its not accurate theres huge rng factor involved when playing fire(others too but i allways felt fire more dependant on rng than others) that just cant be simulated, it doesnt count ur specific raid comb, nothing like that. but it gives u some idea of where the spec is atm over all, im just saying this is one way to point out to his raidleader/officers fire isnt superior dps spec atm

  17. #37
    I'm going to say that there are times, on cleave fights, where I wish I was still fire. Then, on single target fights, I know being fire would be not so great. I have haste arcane and frost at the moment, and I am better in single target fights with arcane, better in more aoe oriented fights with frost. I like haste arcane with invo for its mobility, but I got back to frost for Tsulong so I can help my raid with the day adds.

    We have a toolkit, across all three specs, that we bring to the raid. I can have ready access to 2 of those toolkits specced and forged the way I am now without a lot of overhead with reforging and regemming. That said, you should strengthen what you bring to the raid. If your raid is in need of dps, fire is not the way to go for a lot of the fights.

    I have done some amazing things with all three specs. Tell your raid leader that you enjoy one spec, will most likely play it well and continue to try to play it better. Unless you are in a heavy progression guild, this answer should suffice. If you are in a heavy progression guild, then you need to make the decision of what is the best way to spend your play time, and what rewards you get out of it for complying to someone else's wishes.

  18. #38
    Honestly, play the spec, YOU play best. Fotm aside, ego aside, if you're under-performing, and they would like you to do more, going arcane would prove less difficult. I enjoy fire more, but sadly arcane does much better on half the fights out at the moment. So there will always be fights you're weaker at. Just remember it's a game, you pay to play it, play it the way you want to.

  19. #39
    Unless you're doing some serious heroic progression, play whatever you like.

  20. #40
    Immortal Soisoisoi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    England
    Posts
    7,410
    Quote Originally Posted by Stravs View Post
    Who pays your wow sub? ... them or you?

    Play whatever >you< feel like playing
    Using this logic the OP will make a thread in the next couple of days asking if their RL was right to sit him out. You may pay for your sub, but if you hinder a whole raid group they aren't likely to want you. Though, as I said in my first reply, if you are not hindering a raid then you're fine. I just wanted to /poke this reply.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •