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  1. #261
    Scarab Lord Garnier Fructis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    So sterilizing poor women just because they are poor isn't barbaric?
    I don't know enough about how doctors diagnose mental disorders, so I give up that point.

    As for the quoted part, sterilization is too extreme but keep in mind there is likely no solution where everyone is a winner. Someone will lose out on this no matter what, and the goal is to see how much we can minimize it. If we stop her from having more children, she loses. If we don't, her kids lose. She loses here too because she can't possibly afford them.
    Wir müssen wissen. Wir werden wissen.
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    You are a certified crackpot that is subservient to the manipulators of science who are dreaming to control knowledge.

  2. #262
    here's the thing themius. im pretty liberal. if it had just been the 8, i could have done the "well, it was a thing with the doctor, there was a moral conflict with aborting the extras, etc". thing is she was making not a whole lot with 6 already. im all for social contract, village to raise a kid and all. but what she did/is doing is blatantly abusing the concept of social contract and personal responsibility. when is she going to hold up HER part of a social contract? and no, nudie pics dont count
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    The fucking Derpship has crashed on Herp Island...
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    Meet the new derp.

    Same as the old derp.

  3. #263
    Brewmaster Wiyld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    but if the doctor recognized her state of mind and refused to do it and didn't implant more embryos than he said she wouldn't have had this many kids.[COLOR="red"]

    You keep repeating this as if it MATTERS how many kids she had.

    STOP IT, just STOP IT.

    The number of kids she had is irrelevant at this point in the argument. You keep choosing to ignore this fact even though it has been pointed out to you multiple times. Even if she had had only 1 more kid and the doctor hadn't done anything outside the bounds of the standard procedure, she would STILL be a single mother of 7 with no income.

    So really what the hell is your point?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 06:28 PM ----------

    I gotta say Themius, if you wanted to have a debate arguing ion favor of liberal subsidies for single mothers, you really could have chosen any other women as a better example. This Octomom is probably the single worst person you could have chosen for this argument.


    Then again, maybe it was intentional and you just like trolling.
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    "IM LOOKING AT A THING I DONT LIKE, I HAVE THE OPTION TO GO AWAY FROM IT BUT I WILL LOOK MORE AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE THING I DONT LIKE BECAUSE I DONT LIKE IT, NO ONE IS FORCING ME TO SEARCH FOR THIS THING OR LOOK AT THIS THING OR REMAIN LOOKING AT THIS THING BUT I AM ANYWAY, ITS OFFENDS ME! ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME!!!"
    Troof

  4. #264
    I know the Internet and I know that the Internet is against the idea of her getting welfare. No one stops to think of the kids who asked for none of this. Those kids deserve the welfare money. And let's say she loses the kids, the state still has to pay for them and they get to grow up in foster care and group homes. Yeah, that will do them a tiny of good...

    As long as the money is being spent on creating a stable home for the family, I don't get care if she gets welfare. I'm concerned about the kids and whether they are being supported. And there is no chance in he'll that she can support them on their own.

  5. #265
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacox View Post
    I know the Internet and I know that the Internet is against the idea of her getting welfare. No one stops to think of the kids who asked for none of this. Those kids deserve the welfare money. And let's say she loses the kids, the state still has to pay for them and they get to grow up in foster care and group homes. Yeah, that will do them a tiny of good...

    As long as the money is being spent on creating a stable home for the family, I don't get care if she gets welfare. I'm concerned about the kids and whether they are being supported. And there is no chance in he'll that she can support them on their own.
    This is pretty much what I am saying. Did she make a mistake, yes. Could the mistake have been prevented if doctors took into account her mental stability and behaved ethically? Yes.

    Nude pics do count because since she is in reality they pay her well for a naked picture compared to a any normal person. She took pics for 8k, and did a video for 25k she wanted 100k for, that shows a woman who really has no idea what to do to make money to take care of her kids, so turns to what is paying.

  6. #266
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    As I said before, this mother needs a big reality check here. You don't need THAT many kids moving around the house. I mean I get that she has welfare and all that to help support those kids but I believe that is all it should be doing. If anything she should at least get mental health. There are two things certain here, she has a lot of *fun* and her family is going to have a lot of inlaws.


    She's in for a lot of future problems, that is for sure!
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  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    She didn't plan to have that many kids though. Remember, the doctor who did it had his license revoked because he told her he put x amount of eggs, but instead put way more than he should have and it was found unethical.
    Sounds like one child was more than she should have had to begin with. She had six children as it was, then had 8 more. That's the problem. Stupid people are breeding like fucking rabbits. I feel bad for the children, really I do, but that doesn't make throwing money that the rest of us earned at the problem to make it go away. There is a reason why even middle class people generally only have 2 or 3 kids, one of the factors is how many children can they actually afford to take care of, and instead those are people that get punished for making the responsible decisions and having to pay for those that siphon off everyone else.

  8. #268
    The Lightbringer Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    So.. the doctor who put an unethical amount of embryos into her and lied about the number, who had his LICENSE REVOKED FOR BEING UNETHICAL, isn't to blame at all?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 06:10 PM ----------



    1) you do realize that the doctor implanted more embryos than he should have, and lied about it, which led to her to having so many children.

    2) Pro woman? I am anti- let's blame the woman for wearing a mini skirt when she gets raped. I am pro compassion and sympathy I tell you that fucking much.

    Also i'm a man.

    Most insane? What a crock of shit.


    I cant count the number of posts where you trumpeted that 'she's pro-life, she HAD to be implanted because she didn't want the eggs destroyed' Wasn't that you? If she could make THAT choice to have the eggs implanted then yes, she sure as shit is at sole fault.

    Look, if you want to absolve her of all her responsibility then YOU pay for her upkeep... But you cant, you wont, you want to pass the blame around to anyone you can find... EXCEPT her.

    So you want to blame the doctor and you trumpet the revocation of his licence... lets revoke her ability to leech off the public, since what she's doing is unethical as hell.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 06:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    There are clues to look for... doctors get their licenses revoked if it is obvious their patient had an issue which the doctor ignored.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 06:12 PM ----------



    Like I said earlier she wasn't in the right state of mind, even she admitted that. The doctor should have picked up on that, it is his job. It may not be entirely the doctors fault, but if the doctor recognized her state of mind and refused to do it and didn't implant more embryos than he said she wouldn't have had this many kids.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 06:14 PM ----------



    So sterilizing poor women just because they are poor isn't barbaric?
    Look, Themius, I don't care if she pops out 50 of them... its her right to have as many babies as she wants. its NOT her right to force the rest of the public to pay for her narcissistic addiction.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
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  9. #269
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seran View Post
    I cant count the number of posts where you trumpeted that 'she's pro-life, she HAD to be implanted because she didn't want the eggs destroyed' Wasn't that you? If she could make THAT choice to have the eggs implanted then yes, she sure as shit is at sole fault.

    Look, if you want to absolve her of all her responsibility then YOU pay for her upkeep... But you cant, you wont, you want to pass the blame around to anyone you can find... EXCEPT her.

    So you want to blame the doctor and you trumpet the revocation of his licence... lets revoke her ability to leech off the public, since what she's doing is unethical as hell.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 06:35 PM ----------



    Look, Themius, I don't care if she pops out 50 of them... its her right to have as many babies as she wants. its NOT her right to force the rest of the public to pay for her narcissistic addiction.
    It's not her right, and furthermore the doctor should never do anything like that HENCE THE ETHIC ISSUE. If a patient goes to a doctor and says "cut off my arms, I don't want them" and is mentally unsound, do we say "well it's clearly the patients fault."

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by smelltheglove View Post
    here's the thing themius. im pretty liberal. if it had just been the 8, i could have done the "well, it was a thing with the doctor, there was a moral conflict with aborting the extras, etc". thing is she was making not a whole lot with 6 already. im all for social contract, village to raise a kid and all. but what she did/is doing is blatantly abusing the concept of social contract and personal responsibility. when is she going to hold up HER part of a social contract? and no, nudie pics dont count
    Ultimately I think you have to accept a certain degree of failure. I mean is what's going on here good? Not in any way. But I mean you can't always win.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 01:28 AM ----------

    Look, Themius, I don't care if she pops out 50 of them... its her right to have as many babies as she wants. its NOT her right to force the rest of the public to pay for her narcissistic addiction.
    I don't give a shit about her welfare. I give a shit about her children's welfare. And if that means she's eating on the public dime as well then so be it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  11. #271
    Honestly it's a craptastic situation, but as long as she's allowed to keep her children in her care then yes we should be providing her with benefits. It's her poor decision making but she's still a person and her children are still people, and they deserve to have the basic necessities. Even if the state were to take away all her children she'd still most likely need financial assistance in her situation. If she were to have more children then those should be taken away immediately.

    She's not the reason we need a welfare overhaul, actually I'm honestly not sure we need a welfare overhaul, but we do have a lot of people who abuse the system. As far as I can tell she's not one of them because she actually needs that money. The people who abuse the system are the ones that have other undeclared income and then still get money from welfare/disability/unemployment/etc.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Ultimately I think you have to accept a certain degree of failure. I mean is what's going on here good? Not in any way. But I mean you can't always win.
    well, yeah. but this is pretty damned extreme. and what if she decides to have another litter? im not saying i have answers here, but damn. having no degree and never met her i think she needs her head examined
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    The fucking Derpship has crashed on Herp Island...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Meet the new derp.

    Same as the old derp.

  13. #273
    Eh every system has waste. Society is no different. Sucks but what can you do?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Eh every system has waste. Society is no different. Sucks but what can you do?
    slap her across the face with a trout. that's right, a trout
    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    The fucking Derpship has crashed on Herp Island...
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Meet the new derp.

    Same as the old derp.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    It's not her right, and furthermore the doctor should never do anything like that HENCE THE ETHIC ISSUE. If a patient goes to a doctor and says "cut off my arms, I don't want them" and is mentally unsound, do we say "well it's clearly the patients fault."
    So in you mind ,if the doctor had done his job right and she ended up with 1 extra child for a total of 7, are u telling us it would be ok ? all would be fine ? really ?

  16. #276
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aprosarmostos View Post
    So in you mind ,if the doctor had done his job right and she ended up with 1 extra child for a total of 7, are u telling us it would be ok ? all would be fine ? really ?
    I am telling you if the doctor hadn't put in all those embryos she would have had less children and the doctor wouldn't have a revoked license because of ethical issues.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I am telling you if the doctor hadn't put in all those embryos she would have had less children and the doctor wouldn't have a revoked license because of ethical issues.
    He didn't have his license revoked. He was kicked out of a trade association.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  18. #278
    High Overlord Sheperd's Avatar
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    The state needs to do the responsible thing and take command of these wayward children. Train them to be elite assassins or just let them be cannon fodder, either way they would be better off them under her care.

  19. #279
    A single unemployed mom of 6 had no business having another kid much less (more?) 8.

    I realize that we're not China and we're not going to start imposing reproduction laws on people. However, there is such a thing as common sense.
    Climate Change denialism in a nutshell.
    Ezekiel 23:20, Ezekiel 16:49-50, Mark 10:25, James 5:1-6, Luke 16:19-31, Matthew 19:21, Numbers 5:11-31

  20. #280
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    I am telling you if the doctor hadn't put in all those embryos she would have had less children and the doctor wouldn't have a revoked license because of ethical issues.
    So if the doctor did his job right ,according to you, she would end up with a minimum of 7 . And i am asking you....IS 7 CHILDREN A REASONABLE NUMBER IN HER CASE ?!????

    You keep bashing the doctor like she had 0 children and she ended up with 8, conviniently ignoring the fact she already had 6 .

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