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  1. #41
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    It doesn't matter if they 'love' her or not. What matters is if she is fit to care for them when it's blatantly obvious she is not.
    So take the kids away and damage them for years?

  2. #42
    Epic! Lora's Avatar
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    Honestly, the times of having 7 children are really at an end. She was irresponsible and doesn't deserve the welfare but the system is currently easily exploitable by those with no shame.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thedead241 View Post
    I'm a prostitute. Men like to tell me secrets. And women.

  3. #43
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    So take the kids away and damage them for years?
    Like I said, it's less damage than leaving them there.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  4. #44
    Mechagnome Sarthan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wildtree View Post
    Hmm...... Unfortunately I cannot ask my Grand-Grandma anymore, since she passed away at the age of 88, when I was 18.. But she raised 9 children. Of which every single one became a great person, and a valuable asset to the society they lived in. Could she have handled 5 more? I am positive she could have.
    It's not even remotely comparable when I look at the different circumstances between those two women.
    My Granny had to raise her children through extremely rough times. Recession, Inflation, War.. My grandma was born during WW1 for example.

    On the contrary, since I know what mothers had to go through, and many still do, my opinion of the octomom isn't a very high one.

    The thing is your grandmother most likely didn't receive any welfare. She worked her ass off to raise those kids with your grandfather. This "Octomom" is looking for publicity and a handout.

  5. #45
    Blademaster Drusil's Avatar
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    In 2008, Suleman stated she had six embryos left over from her previous IVF treatments. She explained at the time that she requested that all of the remaining embryos be implanted, despite the norm for a woman her age being two or three implanted at the most.[4] Suleman states that part of her reasoning for attempting a sixth pregnancy was so that the frozen embryos would not be destroyed. Dr. Kamrava stated recently that she insisted on all 'fresh' cycles, and in fact she still has embryos stored with Dr. Kamrava.[23] In June 2011, during a California Medical Board investigation, it was found that Kamrava had implanted twelve embryos, which the board found to be an "extreme" departure from standard of care.[24] After reviewing Suleman's case, in combination with three other cases, the Medical Board of California voted to revoke Kamrava's medical license, effective July 1, 2011.[24]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadya_Suleman

    Even if the doctor put in double the number she requested, it still blows my mind that she would request 6 eggs, full well knowing that each and every one of them could take. Its not that she got an 'unethical' doctor that's the issue, its that she already had -6- friggen kids and had the audacity to potentially have -6- more.

    I mean 6 kids in and of itself is a financial nightmare, one ore two can be a financial nightmare. This is just insanity.

  6. #46
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarthan View Post
    Because the videos couldn't possible be staged. I bet she doesn't even know a few of their names.
    Or they could have been real. I love how you're trying to paint her as the worse mother of the year, as she tries to make the money to take care of them by doing things she really doesn't want to do as they are degrading..

  7. #47
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Please justify how someone who couldn't afford the 6 she already had is a loving and responsible mother Themius. If you can justify why the kids can stay we'd back off. "Because she's the mother" isn't a reasonable argument when she's clearly extremely unstable, irresponsible, and not in any position to give those kids a future.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    So take the kids away and damage them for years?
    State care will do far less damage than an insane parent will.

  9. #49
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drusil View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadya_Suleman

    Even if the doctor put in double the number she requested, it still blows my mind that she would request 6 eggs, full well knowing that each and every one of them could take. Its not that she got an 'unethical' doctor that's the issue, its that she already had -6- friggen kids and had the audacity to potentially have -6- more.

    I mean 6 kids in and of itself is a financial nightmare, one ore two can be a financial nightmare. This is just insanity.
    She's pro-life and the embryos would have been destroyed, which she didn't want.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 11:01 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xeones View Post
    State care will do far less damage than an insane parent will.
    Really so I assume you know many people that have been in state care?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post

    Really so I assume you know many people that have been in state care?
    Some. But I know more who came from families with mentally unstable parents.

  11. #51
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Please justify how someone who couldn't afford the 6 she already had is a loving and responsible mother Themius. If you can justify why the kids can stay we'd back off. "Because she's the mother" isn't a reasonable argument when she's clearly extremely unstable, irresponsible, and not in any position to give those kids a future.
    Ripping kids away from their home and sticking them into care where they will likely be rejected time and time again will cause great emotional harm to the children. It is better for the children to stay where they are. She knows she made a mistake and she knows she wasn't mentally stable at the time when she got this treatment. It was up to her doctor to not go through with it and pick up on her issues BUT HE DID NOT and went through with it and behaved in an unethical way, which led to his revocation of his license.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 11:04 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Xeones View Post
    Some. But I know more who came from families with mentally unstable parents.
    You know where some of these kids end up? In foster homes with foster parents who adopt children just so they can have bigger checks.

  12. #52
    Mechagnome Sarthan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    She's pro-life and the embryos would have been destroyed, which she didn't want.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 11:01 AM ----------



    Really so I assume you know many people that have been in state care?
    I actually do he was the running back for my football team in high school Jeramiah Griesser. He has a 3.7 GPA and plans on playing football at Oregon State University. He has many awards in sports including track,football, basketball, and baseball. I think he turned out alright. Pretty good kid too

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 08:06 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Ripping kids away from their home and sticking them into care where they will likely be rejected time and time again will cause great emotional harm to the children. It is better for the children to stay where they are. She knows she made a mistake and she knows she wasn't mentally stable at the time when she got this treatment. It was up to her doctor to not go through with it and pick up on her issues BUT HE DID NOT and went through with it and behaved in an unethical way, which led to his revocation of his license.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 11:04 AM ----------



    You know where some of these kids end up? In foster homes with foster parents who adopt children just so they can have bigger checks.
    Your retarded it costs a shit ton of money and energy to qualify for adoption.

    Infracted. Flaming isn't tolerated here
    Last edited by Darsithis; 2013-01-08 at 04:15 PM.

  13. #53
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    Really so I assume you know many people that have been in state care?
    I was, until I was 10. I am now 28, have a nice girlfriend and have a great job. I love how you think State Care is a terrible thing. Was it fair I didn't grow up with my OWN mom and dad? No, but the caretakers love you just as much another parent. She is terrible unfit and mentally unstable.
    Is state care ideal? Hell no! Is it better then staying with a mother who has proven she is not mother that makes good decisions? Yes.

    And stop blaming the doctor! Jesus. Even if he only gave her 1 more kid. She could not afford it.

  14. #54
    Old God Frozenbeef's Avatar
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    How is she taking advantage? I mean if she was using the money for something else, perhaps, but that money alone is barely enough to do anything for her household cost. It does take care of the health cost though as America lacks a universal system.
    I never said she should stop receiving benefits however it is unethical to bring more children into the world when she is struggling financially. If you have 6 children you don't just one day go "i want moar!!" without believing they will be taken care of. She knew she couldn't take care of them so assumed other people would.

  15. #55
    The Unstoppable Force Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    You know where some of these kids end up? In foster homes with foster parents who adopt children just so they can have bigger checks.
    Yes, because we shouldn't put them into foster care because they might end up that way, instead of leaving them where they already are that way?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eroginous View Post
    I wouldn't expect someone who thinks science provides proof to know that.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarthan View Post
    The thing is your grandmother most likely didn't receive any welfare. She worked her ass off to raise those kids with your grandfather. This "Octomom" is looking for publicity and a handout.
    My grand grand dad, I have never met. But I know he had a carpenter business, which he ruined, due to alcoholism down the road. Things got bad in their relationship leaving granny with a bunch of kids also alone. They've just pulled through somehow.

    Octomom, on the other hand..... I am not so sure what to think of her at all. It seems to me she got those kids for the sole reason to become famous.
    I mean, she achieved just that. Unbelievable how she can always fall back into struggles with all the financial help she got already outside of welfare.
    She was on just about every tv show, hell even Oprah helped her.

  17. #57
    Blademaster Drusil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    She's pro-life and the embryos would have been destroyed, which she didn't want.
    I don't think that's a valid argument. Obviously what she want's isn't sane.

    There are 24 hours in a day. Most adults need at least 6 hours of sleep. How much individual time, do you think each child gets. How much 'love', 'care' and 'attention' are they getting in said household? She may 'love' them, but she isn't doing right by them at all.

  18. #58
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Themius View Post
    Ripping kids away from their home and sticking them into care where they will likely be rejected time and time again will cause great emotional harm to the children. It is better for the children to stay where they are. She knows she made a mistake and she knows she wasn't mentally stable at the time when she got this treatment. It was up to her doctor to not go through with it and pick up on her issues BUT HE DID NOT and went through with it and behaved in an unethical way, which led to his revocation of his license.[COLOR="red"]
    We're not asking about state care, we know the risks.

    You are essentially saying she shouldn't be blamed and should in fact be reimbursed by the government for this? The wiki page assuming it's validity was quite enlightening. Degrees in psych and child development, working towards a masters etc? Also that she was in fact on benefits when she first went for the treatment too (and lied about it at first but changed her voice on Today airing).

    Please explain how those kids are going to grow up with any future prospects from her. Please explain how they are getting a required amount of attention from their mother there. She will not be able to afford the time or the money for over half of them.

    I am personally saying the doctor isn't blameless and deserves to be taken down entirely for his negligence, but she is hardly blameless and I don't feel the kids should have to pay the price for that. State care may at least give them a chance at a future which is more than can be said for their unstable mom who will never have time for them all.

  19. #59
    Mechagnome Sarthan's Avatar
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    Another themius thread utterly broken as her/his argument falls apart.


    How is she a good parent when was out stripping and in a porn film?

  20. #60
    Titan Themius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarthan View Post
    I actually do he was the running back for my football team in high school Jeramiah Griesser. He has a 3.7 GPA and plans on playing football at Oregon State University. He has many awards in sports including track,football, basketball, and baseball. I think he turned out alright. Pretty good kid too

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 08:06 AM ----------



    Your retarded it costs a shit ton of money and energy to qualify for adoption.
    Foster care and adoption are two different things with different criteria. So I am retarded because you don't get that?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 11:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarthan View Post
    Another themius thread utterly broken as her/his argument falls apart.


    How is she a good parent when was out stripping and in a porn film?
    She was out in a pron film which he had to do for the money to raise her kids.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 11:13 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    Yes, because we shouldn't put them into foster care because they might end up that way, instead of leaving them where they already are that way?
    She didn't have kids to get more money though, she had more kids because 1) she wanted kids 2) the embryos would have been destroyed and she's pro-life, and 3) SHE WAS MENTALLY UNSTABLE AT THE TIME AND HER DOCTOR DIDN'T PICK UP ON IT.

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