Welfare and Octomom

[fooliuscaesar13]

She's poor on welfare, can't affording much of anything. Her parents pay for her food and keep all the receipts and she pays them back at the end of the month. He job is basically reality, which dictates she looks a certain way.

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 11:29 AM ----------



I don't say "in my world" because that is just silly. She was desperate and needed the money, which was evident when she said no lower than 100k then did it for 25k. It's part her doctors fault like I've said a few times now. It's majorly her doctors fault.

It was her decision, so it is *her* fault. No doctor contacted her and forced her to get pregnant. A divine deity didn't descend from the clouds and knock her up. I will agree, however, on the number of children being the doctor's fault (if that story is true). But she already had 6 kids prior to seeking a fertility doctor. That she made a choice to have. Then she *chose* to get pregnant again. I fail to see why this taxpayer burden is anyone's fault but *hers*. I don't want to hear about desperation or that she has no choice but to do certain things, when her choices are exactly what put her where she is now.
I never said "in your world", either...I repeated your exact words, which were "personal world view".

Again...this crusade that you're on regarding her welfare situation...how would you personally feel if *you* had to foot her bills each month and she was doing nothing for you in return? You would feel unappreciated and used; just like taxpayers do when situations like this arise. Welfare is a great social program for people that need it for what it was designed for: a stepping stone to get to the next level or a safety net when your feet are pulled from underneath you financially. It is not meant to be a goddamn career for someone who cannot afford her *14* fkn children.

[Faenskap]

So the american taxpayers have to pay because of her not believing in abortion? GG. I can sort of understand the general american resentment towards taxes when idiots like her are on the receiving end.

Yes, the children should be taken into custody. Do you really think she'll be able to care for them all? And by "care" I don't mean material goods either; emotional support from parent(s) is just as important. One person can't possibly spread their caring for 14 -fourteen-! children.

[Themius]

It was her decision, so it is *her* fault. No doctor contacted her and forced her to get pregnant. A divine deity didn't descend from the clouds and knock her up. I will agree, however, on the number of children being the doctor's fault (if that story is true). But she already had 6 kids prior to seeking a fertility doctor. That she made a choice to have. Then she *chose* to get pregnant again. I fail to see why this taxpayer burden is anyone's fault but *hers*. I don't want to hear about desperation or that she has no choice but to do certain things, when her choices are exactly what put her where she is now.
I never said "in your world", either...I repeated your exact words, which were "personal world view".

Again...this crusade that you're on regarding her welfare situation...how would you personally feel if *you* had to foot her bills each month and she was doing nothing for you in return? You would feel unappreciated and used; just like taxpayers do when situations like this arise. Welfare is a great social program for people that need it for what it was designed for: a stepping stone to get to the next level or a safety net when your feet are pulled from underneath you financially. It is not meant to be a goddamn career for someone who cannot afford her *14* fkn children.

Tell me who to blame in this situation.

A woman goes into her plastic surgeon to get some work done, more work. She clearly has body dysmorphia, but the doctor operates anyway. Who is in the wrong? The woman or the doctor?

[Rukentuts]

Tell me who to blame in this situation.

A woman goes into her plastic surgeon to get some work done, more work. She clearly has body dysmorphia, but the doctor operates anyway. Who is in the wrong? The woman or the doctor?

Getting a one-time procedure is nothing like one that results in bringing more children into the world.

[theredviola]

That is sadly true, and it was shamefully pretty common until pretty recently, in some areas of the country. And really, that's part of the problem of making things like these laws, instead of as a case by case basis and everything. Not every female in any situation like the one I described should be treated the same.... But I dont think it was necessarily the wrong decision, in that one circumstance.

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 08:53 AM ----------



Indeed. As Anne Hathaway (surely more elegantly) put it - you cannot be prolife, if you are not pro-QUALITY-of-life, for these children. But that is a whole separate issue.

Indeed. It.is.an.abhorrent.double.standard.in.American.society. It.perfectly.okay
To.have this double standard because they "chose to have premarital sex" or "she chose to have turkey baster kids." But as the right wing says, why must the.children have to.suffer because of the irresponsibility of the adults?

(Forgive.the.periods.instead.of.spaces)

[Themius]

Getting a one-time procedure is nothing like one that results in bringing more children into the world.

? The point is that it shouldn't have been done and the psychological issue alone should have stopped it, it didn't stop this doctor though, and not only did he go through with it, he went through with it with an unethical amount of embryos.

[mvaliz]

It's basically a case of somebody's blatantly reckless actions costing taxpayers a sizable bill.

How many people do you know who can actually choose how many babies they will carry at any given one time?

[petej0]

? The point is that it shouldn't have been done and the psychological issue alone should have stopped it, it didn't stop this doctor though, and not only did he go through with it, he went through with it with an unethical amount of embryos.

What responsibility does the patient have? Does the doctor know her mental state? Does he know her financial state? Does he know her marital state?

[Garnier Fructis]

How many people do you know who can actually choose how many babies they will carry at any given one time?

Except she already had 6 and then decided to have more. Doesn't matter if she wanted 1 or 2 or 8, she was already a burden before that and she chose to have more kids.

People with legitimate issues deserve welfare and assistance. Now cases like this are rare when you look at the big picture so it probably doesn't warrant any real action, but it still pisses people off none the less. That, and this girl at a local welfare office who was standing in line complaining to her friend that daddy bought the wrong porsche for her. While standing in line. For welfare.

[fooliuscaesar13]

Tell me who to blame in this situation.

A woman goes into her plastic surgeon to get some work done, more work. She clearly has body dysmorphia, but the doctor operates anyway. Who is in the wrong? The woman or the doctor?

Of course you'd take this route (ie, ignoring anything that I said and proposing your own question), because you cannot refute the point that I'm trying to make. Fine, I'll play your game.

Dysmorphia is a big word for "ZOMG I DONT FEEL PRETTY!". Fuck that noise. What does this have to do with her going to a fertility doctor and having more kids that she *clearly* could not already afford?
I will agree that psychologically the procedure should not have been done, but I'm not in the fertility business (minus my own kid, that I *can* afford, of course) so I don't know if psychological screenings are a part of the legal process(es) or not. Is there even a legal process for seeing a fertility doctor? I dunno...but I'm betting that it isn't, meaning that the doctor didn't do anything wrong *legally*. Now, whether that was right or wrong ethically is a different story (not sure you can sue for that), but you'd have to believe the woman involved actually was "afflicted" by Dysmorphia (aka low self esteem). And I don't believe in that shit at all.

That being said...if this doctor is such an evil bad man, where is the lawsuit against him for doing what was asked of him by the patient?

[Rukentuts]

How many people do you know who can actually choose how many babies they will carry at any given one time?

How many people do you know that choose to get IVF when they already have six kids and cannot pay the bills and are a single mother?

[petej0]

How many people do you know that choose to get IVF when they already have six kids and cannot pay the bills and are a single mother?

How does she even pay for IVF when the avg cost is $10k in the US?

[Themius]

Of course you'd take this route (ie, ignoring anything that I said and proposing your own question), because you cannot refute the point that I'm trying to make. Fine, I'll play your game.

Dysmorphia is a big word for "ZOMG I DONT FEEL PRETTY!". Fuck that noise. What does this have to do with her going to a fertility doctor and having more kids that she *clearly* could not already afford?
I will agree that psychologically the procedure should not have been done, but I'm not in the fertility business (minus my own kid, that I *can* afford, of course) so I don't know if psychological screenings are a part of the legal process(es) or not. Is there even a legal process for seeing a fertility doctor? I dunno...but I'm betting that it isn't, meaning that the doctor didn't do anything wrong *legally*. Now, whether that was right or wrong ethically is a different story (not sure you can sue for that), but you'd have to believe the woman involved actually was "afflicted" by Dysmorphia (aka low self esteem). And I don't believe in that shit at all.

That being said...if this doctor is such an evil bad man, where is the lawsuit against him for doing what was asked of him by the patient?

The doctor had his license revoked after he put in more embryos than he should have, and lied about it. This wasn't a doctor, clearly, that would have cared about her mental state.

[Noomz]

What is with people? She shouldn't be eligible for welfare. The idea of rewarding people for abusing their reproductive capibility is mind blowing. Personally? This woman should be steralized and the kids she can't provide for taken away and put into state care.

She cannot possibly raise 14 kids, it's impossible for one person to do and she doesn't have money to pay for additional care takers.

We're in dangerous territory when we're forcibly sterilizing people and telling them how to live.

[Rukentuts]

We're in dangerous territory when we're forcibly sterilizing people and telling them how to live.

So just implement conditions that anyone who gives birth while receiving benefits forfeits their eligibility, or just base benefits off the average number of children per family.

[petej0]

The doctor had his license revoked after he put in more embryos than he should have, and lied about it. This wasn't a doctor, clearly, that would have cared about her mental state.

And what if he didnt lie and put in what she told him? Then what?

[Palmatum]

Tell me who to blame in this situation.

A woman goes into her plastic surgeon to get some work done, more work. She clearly has body dysmorphia, but the doctor operates anyway. Who is in the wrong? The woman or the doctor?

The doctors should be paying out, not the taxpayer.

[petej0]

I think people who judge her so publically are disgusting, your essentially bullying a mother and her 14 kids. Who are going to grow up being told and shown aweful things about their mother. I dont see why people dont just leave her alone, she made a mistake, build a bridge and get the hell over it.

Additionally, the "take her kids away" opinions are even more disgusting. Imagine if someone came and took away your kids on the premise that they thought you couldnt "handle it". Its absurd.

What is absurd is people defending her claiming she wasnt in the correct emotional state to ask for these additional embryos despite having 6 kids already. Yet she is competent enough to raise 14 kids? Either she is competent to ask for more children which is irresponsible for her to do or she isnt compentent and needs her kids taken away. Not becuase we are evil people, but because she clearly cant raise them.

[Purlina]

With all that defining proof, who could argue?..

Im not saying shes in the right, im saying let it go, and stop bullying 14 children and their mother, its pathetic. If I were her ide be kicking the shit out of the papparazi that were snapping photos of her family, its complete harrassment.

I agree, if she is doing something wrong let child welfare handle it. Otherwise leave her alone....

[mvaliz]

She cannot possibly raise 14 kids, it's impossible for one person to do and she doesn't have money to pay for additional care takers.

It's not impossible actually - my aunt had 12 kids... think she's right now up to 86 grandchildren...

Of course, the 2 big differences here is a) she's very wealthy and b) she had her children all through her life... so her 16 yo daughters/sons eventually were able to babysit the other kids and help around the house.

But, I am saying it IS possible to raise them. :P

In her situation, she should've considered placing the children up for adoption if just for the sake of giving her children a better future. But there's two things I know in life... burnt toast tastes aweful, and never attempt to tell a mother that she should give up her children. :P