Welfare and Octomom

[Tojara]

Moral of the story is this is wasteful and stop having fucking kids.

[Roose]

And really considering just how reckless/thoughtless the bitch is what chance do you think their is that any of those children will grow up to be productive members of society.

This is another issue all itself. This mom is obviously a very shitty parent. These kids will likely be blights on society as well. Not saying that with certainty because people have overcome worse situations, but odds are this will not be a family of doctors and engineers, more like strippers and meth heads.

[Mukki]

So let's get this straight.

Her bills are in excess of 100k a year

You don't think she should get welfare,

which means you don't think her children need to eat, or need to go to the doctors, or need to go to the dentist.

A regular job isn't going to cut it to pay for her bills lol. Not at this point.

There's this thing called personal responsibility and consequences to actions. Why should the taxpayers who are generally struggling write her a blank check because she screwed up? That's preposterous! Welfare isn't unlimited and it doesn't come out of nowhere.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Which is generally overblown. While there are legitimate disabilities, the victim mentality in today's culture is a large contributor.

There are legitimate disabilities sure, but I'm not 100% sure it is overblown. The victim mentality I think only got worse because of this economy which sucks more because they are exploiting the weakness for their own ends. It's really shameful, I wouldn't call people entitled unless I had a very good amount of evidence to believe so. I don't like calling people out, but if I must do so so be it.

With that said. This woman obviously is not in the right mind. Being single and having that many kids? I'm sorry but I cannot fathom why you need that many. Don't get me wrong I love kids and I'd love to have 2-3 but that's it. No more then that. I don't think we should prevent people from reproducing because that is a freedom that must always be protected regardless of how somewhat dominating posters earlier posted.

If they seem unable to financially handle that many kids(Excluding the abusement of the welfare system) then they should try and hold them off.

[Mukki]

You know where some of these kids end up? In foster homes with foster parents who adopt children just so they can have bigger checks.

As opposed to a mother who birthed children so she could have bigger checks? I really hope you're just trying to play devil's advocate, because you have yet to make a compelling argument.

[bergmann620]

Which is generally overblown. While there are legitimate disabilities, the victim mentality in today's culture is a large contributor.

IDK, since Obama was elected, haven't disability payments gone up more than a couple notches? It seems like the recession disabled quite a few people.

For what it's worth, I do see a continuing problem with unemployment that is unrelated to the economy or laziness. We are simply becoming too efficient, and because of that, there simply won't be enough quality jobs available for those that want them.

The next trend is going to have to involve bleeding off excess low-skilled labor, a return to sanity involving lower-to-middle-class finances, a requisition for the dignity of employment at all levels, and a return of single-income households for families that have children.

It's not that we can't afford to provide a standard of living to anyone that wants to freeload; it's that we can't afford the costs to society of having a generation of freeloaders. Generally, you don't value things you don't earn.

[Mukki]

Yep, I am sure the average joe can easily foresee recessions...

Everyone saw this last one coming a mile away!

Actually, a lot of economists did, and it's going to get worse, but that's a different topic.

You not knowing about it doesn't mean no one saw it coming.

[Purlina]

IDK, I just have a hard time with people making 2x as much money as me crying because they're 'struggling'.

Maybe don't enslave yourself to debt, and you can sleep easier at night.

Well that depends, 75K for a family of 2-3 isn't that much. It's good, but not like that person is rich...

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 09:01 PM ----------

Actually, a lot of economists did, and it's going to get worse, but that's a different topic.

You not knowing about it doesn't mean no one saw it coming.

You missed the average joe portion in there.

[Tommo]

Question: You dont want to pay for her kids, just like any person wouldnt. However it happened, we cant change that. So your response is to cut off the funding to her kids and let them go into care... which you still pay for. So in essence, you want to remove the children from their mother, just because you dont like her. Am I correct?

[Rukentuts]

Question: You dont want to pay for her kids, just like any person wouldnt. However it happened, we cant change that. So your response is to cut off the funding to her kids and let them go into care... which you still pay for. So in essence, you want to remove the children from there mother, just because you dont like her. Am I correct?

No, you're incorrect. We want them away from her because she's a loony.

[Mukki]

Well that depends, 75K for a family of 2-3 isn't that much. It's good, but not like that person is rich...

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 09:01 PM ----------




You missed the average joe portion in there.

It's not like the information wasn't publicly available. Also, as another poster mentioned, there's this thing called saving, and yes, you can save for well over six months. These are just excuses.

(Also, the average joe, if he's educated himself to information that's widely available on how our financial system works can most likely see a lot of these things coming).

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 01:07 PM ----------

Question: You dont want to pay for her kids, just like any person wouldnt. However it happened, we cant change that. So your response is to cut off the funding to her kids and let them go into care... which you still pay for. So in essence, you want to remove the children from their mother, just because you dont like her. Am I correct?

I'm pretty sure it's the fact that people don't want to have their money go towards her in specific.

[Roose]

You missed the average joe portion in there.

Average Joe is also not going out and having 10+ kids.

[Tommo]

No, you're incorrect. We want them away from her because she's a loony.

According to who? The only thing you ever see about this woman is tabloid bullshit, shes clearly not insane if she's managing to take care of a nursery of kids.

[Rukentuts]

According to who? The only thing you ever see about this woman is tabloid bullshit, shes clearly not insane if she's managing to take care of a nursery of kids.

According to even herself, actually.

And having the kids live in an apartment without running water is doing a fantastic job, right?

[Roose]

Question: You dont want to pay for her kids, just like any person wouldnt. However it happened, we cant change that. So your response is to cut off the funding to her kids and let them go into care... which you still pay for. So in essence, you want to remove the children from their mother, just because you dont like her. Am I correct?

I do not like her because she is obviously a crazy bitch. Be hard to find a worse parent for those kids.

[Tommo]

According to even herself, actually.

And having the kids live in an apartment without running water is doing a fantastic job, right?

Well hold on, wheres all this absolute proof I couldnt see in the thread, a shit load of stuff ive seen about her is usually lies. I cant imagine you would know anything about what goes on in a random persons house.

[Purlina]

It's not like the information wasn't publicly available. Also, as another poster mentioned, there's this thing called saving, and yes, you can save for well over six months. These are just excuses.

(Also, the average joe, if he's educated himself to information that's widely available on how our financial system works can most likely see a lot of these things coming).[COLOR="red"]

[SIZE=1]----------

And yet many self proclaimed experts where still caught off guard.


Hmmm?

[Rukentuts]

Well hold on, wheres all this absolute proof I couldnt see in the thread, a shit load of stuff ive seen about her is usually lies. I cant imagine you would know anything about what goes on in a random persons house.

As tenuous as the source provided was, it is still the only proof linked in this thread.

[Roose]

According to who? The only thing you ever see about this woman is tabloid bullshit, shes clearly not insane if she's managing to take care of a nursery of kids.

Sounds like she can't handle much of anything. But I doubt I could raise 14 kids all by myself either without breaking down.

she entered rehab in October for what her rep said was “anxiety, exhaustion and stress.”
“She was prescribed Xanax for her anxiety attacks. She was not addicted to it. She has an overabundance of stress and exhaustion and wanted to deal with it without prescription drugs,” Rodriguez told the ABCNews.com at the time.
The 37-year-old mother had been supporting her family by stripping and filming a solo porn video.

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 03:15 PM ----------

And yet many self proclaimed experts where still caught off guard.

Again, this bitch had 6 kids and decided to get more. She did not lose her job or anything like that. Take this recession shit to another thread.

[Wiyld]

If this woman was in fact super poor prior to the impregnation with all the 8 kids, how in Zeus's butthole did she pay for the procedure?

Having embryos artificially impregnated is REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY expensive. I know this because I have an aunt in law who did it twice. Keep in mind shes a successful executive who had the means and capacity to care for her kids prior to making the choice. This is why they use more then one embryo every time they try. If it was cheap, there wouldn't be an issue here as it would have been one embryo per try, if it didn't take then you try again. But as its so crazy expensive, even wealthy people, get a number of embryos implanted to make sure at least one grows.

So yeah, how did Octomom pay for this is she was truly completely broke and at the mercy of state support? Please don't tell me medicare will cover fertility support.....



Also, anyone who spent anytime even discussing this process knows that multiple kids are VERY common in these situations. The aunt in law i mentioned above had twins her second time. Everyone who goes into this knows ahead of time that multiple children is a very real possibility. If you think back around the time this happened there was another woman who had like 6 kids, same thing happened to her. Do we hear about that woman at all? Ever? So you see 'Octomom' is NOT your standard, perfectly normal mother that does everything right and never raises eyebrows. She gets attention for the crap she does because its attention worthy.


Now, I personally have nothing but disdain for news that reports on this kinda junk. I won't go into it at depth, just understand that on a personal level I HATE all the coverage people like this woman get. That said, I have seen a few reports over the years talking about 'how things are now'. In every case, things were bad in the 'Octohouse'. Not only did she get a massive amount of financial support right before and after the birth but I'm pretty sure I remember her getting volunteer caregivers to take care of her kids for her. Thats right, shes admitted clearly that there is no way in hell she can take care of her kids alone. Of course any sane person can see that would be the case, but apparently Ocotmom was surprised by this. TV crews have gone into the house they live in a few times and the place is a shithole. I mean, just imagine 14 kids running rampant with little to no supervision. I'll give you a hint, it doesn't look like Peter Pan.

I don't care if she 'wanted' more kids when she had 6, shes no better then a cat hoarder, shes worse in fact, we can cage cats up and send em off to the pound easily enough, its tough to cage up 14 kids and send them anywhere now. I don't know why she wanted more kids, I don't know that she wanted to game the gov support system, I know for a fact that does happen but I haven't heard of too many going that crazy and having 14 kids. Most low income individuals don't have the money to go to a clinic to get fertilized, they just do it the old fashioned way, hence families with different fathers for every kid. Stop justifying her behavior with 'I wasn't in a good state of mind' bullshit. I'm not in a good state of mind when I come home from work after having a bad day. I'm not in a good state of mind when I get woken up in the middle of the night. I'm no in a good state of mind when I get stuck in a traffic jam. None of those things frees me from accountability or responsibilities of any actions that might follow those events. Should the medical staff at the clinic asked some more questions? Maybe. The medical board that pulled the docs license seemed to think he acted bad enough to do that at least. I would ask you though, are you suggesting that the doctor should have asked her to provide proof of financial responsibility before giving her more kids? I mean she must have had the money to have the procedure, so is that something you expect? Or would you be here lambasting them for discriminating against poor people?


Her choices were wrong, and while she is not personally responsible for the nations financial issues, anytime someone puts themselves out there in such a public way they become a symbol. They come to represent all the other people like them. So when people express frustration with the Octomom, they are really frustrated with her and everyone like her.