Welfare and Octomom

[Themius]

I cant count the number of posts where you trumpeted that 'she's pro-life, she HAD to be implanted because she didn't want the eggs destroyed' Wasn't that you? If she could make THAT choice to have the eggs implanted then yes, she sure as shit is at sole fault.

Look, if you want to absolve her of all her responsibility then YOU pay for her upkeep... But you cant, you wont, you want to pass the blame around to anyone you can find... EXCEPT her.

So you want to blame the doctor and you trumpet the revocation of his licence... lets revoke her ability to leech off the public, since what she's doing is unethical as hell.

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 06:35 PM ----------



Look, Themius, I don't care if she pops out 50 of them... its her right to have as many babies as she wants. its NOT her right to force the rest of the public to pay for her narcissistic addiction.

It's not her right, and furthermore the doctor should never do anything like that HENCE THE ETHIC ISSUE. If a patient goes to a doctor and says "cut off my arms, I don't want them" and is mentally unsound, do we say "well it's clearly the patients fault."

[Wells]

here's the thing themius. im pretty liberal. if it had just been the 8, i could have done the "well, it was a thing with the doctor, there was a moral conflict with aborting the extras, etc". thing is she was making not a whole lot with 6 already. im all for social contract, village to raise a kid and all. but what she did/is doing is blatantly abusing the concept of social contract and personal responsibility. when is she going to hold up HER part of a social contract? and no, nudie pics dont count

Ultimately I think you have to accept a certain degree of failure. I mean is what's going on here good? Not in any way. But I mean you can't always win.

---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 01:28 AM ----------

Look, Themius, I don't care if she pops out 50 of them... its her right to have as many babies as she wants. its NOT her right to force the rest of the public to pay for her narcissistic addiction.

I don't give a shit about her welfare. I give a shit about her children's welfare. And if that means she's eating on the public dime as well then so be it.

[RoKPaNda]

Honestly it's a craptastic situation, but as long as she's allowed to keep her children in her care then yes we should be providing her with benefits. It's her poor decision making but she's still a person and her children are still people, and they deserve to have the basic necessities. Even if the state were to take away all her children she'd still most likely need financial assistance in her situation. If she were to have more children then those should be taken away immediately.

She's not the reason we need a welfare overhaul, actually I'm honestly not sure we need a welfare overhaul, but we do have a lot of people who abuse the system. As far as I can tell she's not one of them because she actually needs that money. The people who abuse the system are the ones that have other undeclared income and then still get money from welfare/disability/unemployment/etc.

[smelltheglove]

Ultimately I think you have to accept a certain degree of failure. I mean is what's going on here good? Not in any way. But I mean you can't always win.

well, yeah. but this is pretty damned extreme. and what if she decides to have another litter? im not saying i have answers here, but damn. having no degree and never met her i think she needs her head examined

[Wells]

Eh every system has waste. Society is no different. Sucks but what can you do?

[smelltheglove]

Eh every system has waste. Society is no different. Sucks but what can you do?

slap her across the face with a trout. that's right, a trout

[Deleted]

It's not her right, and furthermore the doctor should never do anything like that HENCE THE ETHIC ISSUE. If a patient goes to a doctor and says "cut off my arms, I don't want them" and is mentally unsound, do we say "well it's clearly the patients fault."

So in you mind ,if the doctor had done his job right and she ended up with 1 extra child for a total of 7, are u telling us it would be ok ? all would be fine ? really ?

[Themius]

So in you mind ,if the doctor had done his job right and she ended up with 1 extra child for a total of 7, are u telling us it would be ok ? all would be fine ? really ?

I am telling you if the doctor hadn't put in all those embryos she would have had less children and the doctor wouldn't have a revoked license because of ethical issues.

[Wells]

I am telling you if the doctor hadn't put in all those embryos she would have had less children and the doctor wouldn't have a revoked license because of ethical issues.

He didn't have his license revoked. He was kicked out of a trade association.

[Sheperd]

The state needs to do the responsible thing and take command of these wayward children. Train them to be elite assassins or just let them be cannon fodder, either way they would be better off them under her care.

[Cthulhu 2020]

A single unemployed mom of 6 had no business having another kid much less (more?) 8.

I realize that we're not China and we're not going to start imposing reproduction laws on people. However, there is such a thing as common sense.

[Deleted]

I am telling you if the doctor hadn't put in all those embryos she would have had less children and the doctor wouldn't have a revoked license because of ethical issues.

So if the doctor did his job right ,according to you, she would end up with a minimum of 7 . And i am asking you....IS 7 CHILDREN A REASONABLE NUMBER IN HER CASE ?!????

You keep bashing the doctor like she had 0 children and she ended up with 8, conviniently ignoring the fact she already had 6 .

[Wiyld]

He didn't have his license revoked. He was kicked out of a trade association.

lol



busted

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 10:23 PM ----------

So if the doctor did his job right ,according to you, she would end up with a minimum of 7 . And i am asking you....IS 7 CHILDREN A REASONABLE NUMBER IN HER CASE ?!????

You keep bashing the doctor like she had 0 children and she ended up with 8, conviniently ignoring the fact she already had 6 .

Hes been doing it the entire thread and has been called out on it over and over and over again. He doesn't care, hes just trolling at this point, just ignore him.

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 10:37 PM ----------

Heh ok, so out of curiosity I actually goolged Octomom and found some fun stuff. Keep in mind I don't have sources for most of this, so take it entirely at face value.


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5172709AA6kQ6W

'She is receiving government aid fraudulently. She has gotten over $160,000 for a back injury from disability. She also got a workman's comp settlement. This is fraudulent because if your back is ok to carry 6 pregnancies, (before the litter of 8) and to go to school. You are well enough to work. She also receives over $700.00 per child for 3 of her children in social security. One reportedly has Autism, and the other 2 the disablilities are suspect. She also has student loans. the most current is for $50,000. that she plans on living on for the next year instead of going to school. School loans are for school expenses.

According to her mother, she never paid for anything. The whole financial burden has fallen upon her parents effectively driving them into bankruptcy. The SSI for her children's disabilities are for any special treatment that they need. Not for IVF or plastic surguries.

Her million dollar plus medical bills are going to be paid for by the California taxpayers.

This woman is an expert at milking the system. And she uses sympathy for her children to con hard working people out of their money so she can sit back and be a baby machine, thereby getting more money.



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...ticle-1.360844 - lol daily news but hey this IS gossip

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_162756.html - huffington is a little better



Sooo yeah.

Octomom was obsessed with having a massive number of kids for most of her life and if she could have done it the old fashioned way she would have but she apparently couldn't. So, she found money anywhere she could and used the rest of her family members to get what she wanted. She knew exactly what she was getting into, it was planned all along. She had multiple IVF procedures, even had a pair of twins because of it prior to the 8. There was no ignorance, no temporary insanity involved here. She did this with clear headed resolve. Resolve to get what SHE wanted, damn anyone or anything that might get in her way...you know...like needing diapers...and a job...and school....and the like....

[Themius]

lol



busted

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 10:23 PM ----------



Hes been doing it the entire thread and has been called out on it over and over and over again. He doesn't care, hes just trolling at this point, just ignore him.

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 10:37 PM ----------

Heh ok, so out of curiosity I actually goolged Octomom and found some fun stuff. Keep in mind I don't have sources for most of this, so take it entirely at face value.


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5172709AA6kQ6W

'She is receiving government aid fraudulently. She has gotten over $160,000 for a back injury from disability. She also got a workman's comp settlement. This is fraudulent because if your back is ok to carry 6 pregnancies, (before the litter of 8) and to go to school. You are well enough to work. She also receives over $700.00 per child for 3 of her children in social security. One reportedly has Autism, and the other 2 the disablilities are suspect. She also has student loans. the most current is for $50,000. that she plans on living on for the next year instead of going to school. School loans are for school expenses.

According to her mother, she never paid for anything. The whole financial burden has fallen upon her parents effectively driving them into bankruptcy. The SSI for her children's disabilities are for any special treatment that they need. Not for IVF or plastic surguries.

Her million dollar plus medical bills are going to be paid for by the California taxpayers.

This woman is an expert at milking the system. And she uses sympathy for her children to con hard working people out of their money so she can sit back and be a baby machine, thereby getting more money.



http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...ticle-1.360844 - lol daily news but hey this IS gossip

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_162756.html - huffington is a little better



Sooo yeah.

Octomom was obsessed with having a massive number of kids for most of her life and if she could have done it the old fashioned way she would have but she apparently couldn't. So, she found money anywhere she could and used the rest of her family members to get what she wanted. She knew exactly what she was getting into, it was planned all along. She had multiple IVF procedures, even had a pair of twins because of it prior to the 8. There was no ignorance, no temporary insanity involved here. She did this with clear headed resolve. Resolve to get what SHE wanted, damn anyone or anything that might get in her way...you know...like needing diapers...and a job...and school....and the like....

You are seriously saying I am trolling?

Also

The Medical Board of California said it was necessary to revoke Dr. Michael Kamrava's license to protect the public. The revocation takes effect July 1.

So how am I "busted" what the fuck am I being busted for? Don't come in here and try to claim I am trolling.

How have I been called out on it? Saying "it's not the doctors fault" and "she still decided" isn't calling me out. The fact is what the doctor did was wrong.

and also

The board found that Dr. Michael Kamrava had "committed acts of gross negligence and repeated negligent acts" in his care of Suleman and another patient and had committed "repeated negligent acts" in his care of a third patient. The revocation is scheduled to take effect July 1.

Also you call that clear headed? I call that in need of psychological help and something that should have been picked up on by her doctor.

[Wiyld]

You have been asked, SO many times by myself and many others in this thread, a question that you continue to avoid like the plague. Why?

If the doctor had only given her, lets say 4, embryos and they all took, should would still have 10 kids and be in the same situation. If the doctor had only given her ONE and she was saddled with 7 kids. So take your scapegoat out of the equation entirely. She would STILL be manipulating and leeching her way through life to get what she wants.

You keep harping on the doctor but your TOTALLY missing that point that no one here cares what happened with the doctor. The women has gone on record saying she wanted 12+ kids, and had wanted them her whole life.

SO

What would your argument to defender be if you take any malpractice by the doctor out of the equation? Your totally cool with everything shes done otherwise? Really? You have absolutely no issue with her behavior at all and its all the doctors fault? WTF?

[Themius]

You have been asked, SO many times by myself and many others in this thread, a question that you continue to avoid like the plague. Why?

If the doctor had only given her, lets say 4, embryos and they all took, should would still have 10 kids and be in the same situation. If the doctor had only given her ONE and she was saddled with 7 kids. So take your scapegoat out of the equation entirely. She would STILL be manipulating and leeching her way through life to get what she wants.

You keep harping on the doctor but your TOTALLY missing that point that no one here cares what happened with the doctor. The women has gone on record saying she wanted 12+ kids, and had wanted them her whole life.

SO

What would your argument to defender be if you take any malpractice by the doctor out of the equation? Your totally cool with everything shes done otherwise? Really? You have absolutely no issue with her behavior at all and its all the doctors fault? WTF?

I already addressed that, but I guess it was lost on people who fail at comprehension.

Are you fucking reading? How can you say "you have no issue with her behaviour" when I JUST FUCKING SAID HE WAS MENTALLY UNSTABLE MULTIPLE TIMES. Are you just choosing to ignore the many times I have called her unstable and in need of help? The doctor should have been able to pick up on that and dealt with it accordingly HOWEVER THEY FAILED HER. They allowed her to continue to go down this path. Bloody fucking hell, read my damn post before you say "your totally cool with everything shes done" never minding the fact I called her unstable and not mentally sound at the time lol. What the fuck are you on?

[Wiyld]

Also you call that clear headed? I call that in need of psychological help and something that should have been picked up on by her doctor.

She was not in some sort of judgment clouding fog. She wasn't drunk, she wasn't high. She wasn't raving mad, this was her plan her ENTIRE LIFE. It had become so insane her own mother practically disowned her at one point and your going to blame just the doctor? Why not blame her parents? Certainly they knew she was fucking nuts? Why not blame her Ex husband who divorced her BECAUSE he knew she was going to do this shit, he clearly knew she was nuts. I mean she literally asked for the doctor to put like 3 times the normal number of embryos into her, she asked for 6 which is WAY over the normal limit. Why the guy put 12 in...I have no idea..certainly shouldn't have... kinda makes me wonder where he got the other 6 since she only had 6 frozen but that's not really relevant here.

See what you seem to be doing is saying that the behavior of the doctor is relevant when judging this woman for her own actions. We aren't even talking about the doctor here, we don't care, HER choices were bad. they were bad before she had 8 kids, they were bad once she got pregnant, and they were bad after she had them. The woman is a freakin liar, she keeps getting caught doing it. She claims she loves her kids but then gets caught on tape saying she hates them and wishes shed never done it.

[Komic]

I say take the kids away and then sterilize the bitch. Afterwards she can go back to porn to make a living or starve to death.

[Wiyld]

I already addressed that, but I guess it was lost on people who fail at comprehension.

Are you fucking reading? How can you say "you have no issue with her behaviour" when I JUST FUCKING SAID HE WAS MENTALLY UNSTABLE MULTIPLE TIMES. Are you just choosing to ignore the many times I have called her unstable and in need of help? The doctor should have been able to pick up on that and dealt with it accordingly HOWEVER THEY FAILED HER. They allowed her to continue to go down this path. Bloody fucking hell, read my damn post before you say "your totally cool with everything shes done" never minding the fact I called her unstable and not mentally sound at the time lol. What the fuck are you on?

Yeah you say shes mentally unstable but then in the same breath put the blame on the doctor. REALITY CHECK being mentally unstable does NOT absolve you of responsibility for your actions.

SEPARATE the actions of octomom and the actions of the doctor. Both have their own judgments to face for their own choices and actions, one does not excuse or justify the other.

[Themius]

She was not in some sort of judgment clouding fog. She wasn't drunk, she wasn't high. She wasn't raving mad, this was her plan her ENTIRE LIFE. It had become so insane her own mother practically disowned her at one point and your going to blame just the doctor? Why not blame her parents? Certainly they knew she was fucking nuts? Why not blame her Ex husband who divorced her BECAUSE he knew she was going to do this shit, he clearly knew she was nuts. I mean she literally asked for the doctor to put like 3 times the normal number of embryos into her, she asked for 6 which is WAY over the normal limit. Why the guy put 12 in...I have no idea..certainly shouldn't have... kinda makes me wonder where he got the other 6 since she only had 6 frozen but that's not really relevant here.

See what you seem to be doing is saying that the behavior of the doctor is relevant when judging this woman for her own actions. We aren't even talking about the doctor here, we don't care, HER choices were bad. they were bad before she had 8 kids, they were bad once she got pregnant, and they were bad after she had them. The woman is a freakin liar, she keeps getting caught doing it. She claims she loves her kids but then gets caught on tape saying she hates them and wishes shed never done it.

Right because in order to not be mentally sound you MUST be clouded and drunk or high or just plain raving mad of course.

Actually it is relevant that he put 12 instead of 6. It points to a doctor who had little care for his patients. He also did this to two other patients apparently. A doctor who is ready to pull such an unethical act isn't likely to care much about the mental state of his patient.

The woman has issues, and instead of her being well dealt with properly she was practically disowned, her issues ignored by everything, including her own bloody doctor. Then everyone sits back and paints the picture of such a horrible woman when it's just a woman who never got the help she needed. People just lack all fucking compassion or any sliver of understanding.