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  1. #41
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    It's not great from what I've heard, especially if you let slip that you're a free player early on, but it's better than nothing : )
    Priceless.
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    It's not great from what I've heard, especially if you let slip that you're a free player early on, but it's better than nothing : )
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    This is the equivalent of E-mail, so yes. Not really better, especially since consumer reports (lol) mention that it doesn't solve their problems.
    My head now hurts from my forehead hitting my desk so hard. Thanks guys!

    Also some more info on some changes:
    Originally Posted by SWTOR
    All right folks, I talked to our developers and got some clarification:
    • The Revan outfit was adjusted to look more like Revan’s armor in the game.
    • The Spymaster and the Phantom outfits were both adjusted to look more like their advertised appearance in the Cartel Market, after we received more than a few remarks about this dissimilarity. This is to ensure that customers receive the advertised appearance.
    • Currently, the Stylish Dancer’s outfit is advertised as being white, but it should be red, as it appears when you preview the item. This will be adjusted for a future patch.

    We apologize for any inconvenience. In the future, we will ensure that all assets are in alignment on the Cartel Market. The final products are meant to look like the advertised art.

    (Source)

  3. #43
    I just lurked the SWTOR forums a bit (I do that a lot since I can't post) and there's a bit too much negativity about the patch IMO. It seems like a solid patch overall and fixes a lot of issues, but people are going kinda nuts. Apparently it has the "BioWare touch" i.e. tons of bugs, but I think that's kinda to be expected at this point and I'm not sure how overstated they actually are on the forums.

  4. #44
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    We apologize for any inconvenience. In the future, we will ensure that all assets are in alignment on the Cartel Market. The final products are meant to look like the advertised art. (Source)
    Glad to see their priorities are in order.

    Wouldn't want people purchasing the dancer armor to get all huffy, but who cares about the hundreds of people who have had money literally vanish from their inventories. FFS

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Glad to see their priorities are in order.

    Wouldn't want people purchasing the dancer armor to get all huffy, but who cares about the hundreds of people who have had money literally vanish from their inventories. FFS
    One is false advertising and easy to fix, the other is a bug (debate whether they are trying to fix or if it's intended, I don't care). I'm not trying to justify the disappearing unlocks or anything, just sayin.

  6. #46
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    One is false advertising and easy to fix, the other is a bug (debate whether they are trying to fix or if it's intended, I don't care). I'm not trying to justify the disappearing unlocks or anything, just sayin.
    So saying that you are going to get a service, so you pay for that service, then find that it doesn't work isn't the same scenario?

    This would be like someone selling you a car that is advertised as running great, then you buy it and it dies in the parking lot. You go to get your money back to find that the doors are locked and the lights are off. You never see your money or a working car for the forseeable future.

    Can you tell me how that isn't also false advertisement? You were told one thing and given another. Except in this case the people buying luxury vehicles are having their cars fixed immediately, while the person buying a daily driver get nothing.

  7. #47
    They can blame the disappearing unlocks on user error or a bug within the system they are working on. It's been done before in other games. Doesn't make it any more acceptable or any less shady, but looking at it objectively, one is an easy fix to a problem that they own, the other is a more complex fix to a problem that allows them to lay the blame elsewhere.

  8. #48
    Titan Kelimbror's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    They can blame the disappearing unlocks on user error or a bug within the system they are working on. It's been done before in other games. Doesn't make it any more acceptable or any less shady, but looking at it objectively, one is an easy fix to a problem that they own, the other is a more complex fix to a problem that allows them to lay the blame elsewhere.
    But what says that the items aren't bugs? It's all bugs. None of it is intended. How they try to spin it shouldn't make a difference on what is actually going on.

    People are giving money and not getting the promised product in return. There's really nothing else for it but that. I know you aren't defending it, but it's all the same. Them choosing one over the other is kinda telling on their part...whether it's because they are shady or incompetent, it's not good.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Them choosing one over the other is kinda telling on their part...whether it's because they are shady or incompetent, it's not good.
    I agree here. I'm not, and will never, excuse this kind of behavior (I don't even think they've acknowledged that it happens). My earlier posts are more looking at it from the point of view of an "evil soulless company who doesn't care about anything other than $ blah blah". I'm good at doing that (frightfully so).

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    I just lurked the SWTOR forums a bit (I do that a lot since I can't post) and there's a bit too much negativity about the patch IMO. It seems like a solid patch overall and fixes a lot of issues, but people are going kinda nuts. Apparently it has the "BioWare touch" i.e. tons of bugs, but I think that's kinda to be expected at this point and I'm not sure how overstated they actually are on the forums.
    That is really creative reasoning and I'd like to hear more. /chinhands

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Nris View Post
    That is really creative reasoning and I'd like to hear more. /chinhands
    Wha..Uh...I'm confused. What did I reason out? >.>

  12. #52
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    But what says that the items aren't bugs? It's all bugs. None of it is intended. How they try to spin it shouldn't make a difference on what is actually going on.

    People are giving money and not getting the promised product in return. There's really nothing else for it but that. I know you aren't defending it, but it's all the same. Them choosing one over the other is kinda telling on their part...whether it's because they are shady or incompetent, it's not good.
    Lovely article that helps explain how some MMO's work regarding bug fixing.

    I quote:

    First, MMORPGs are composed of teams. Teams rarely have overlapping functions, and their skills are not fungible. The 3-D modelers making new hats can’t stop what they’re doing and debug server optimization code. This applies across all aspects of development. Even with coding, someone working on the quest engine isn’t going to fix display glitches. Someone responsible for UI responsiveness can’t help solve memory leaks. In general, even if it’s possible to retrain someone, it’s a waste of time to do so — they’re much more useful doing what they were hired to do.

    http://mrlizard.com/rants/why-havent...ixed-this-bug/

    Basically the display fixes to the clothing/armor were very likely done by someone other than those working on the unlock bug. Stephen Reid once explained it better when people complained about an emote bug fix when there was a class story bug crippling Jedi Knights iirc. It's not always a case of choosing one over the other.

    We have no clue how Bioware rates the unlock bug internally. Whether it's a high priority listing or not. We can speculate though of course.
    Last edited by Jamos77; 2013-01-08 at 11:24 PM.
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  13. #53
    As far as I know, the "only one hat" method of hiring has mostly gone out the window. Employees can generally wear multiple hats to allow for more flexibility during development and allowing easier transitioning of resources (people) from one project to the next. I'm not talking about like, "ARTIST CAN DO ENCOUNTER SCRIPTING AND NETWORK CODING AS WELL!!!!" levels of flexibility, but I know many places do expect a certain level of flexibility out of employees.

  14. #54
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    As far as I know, the "only one hat" method of hiring has mostly gone out the window. Employees can generally wear multiple hats to allow for more flexibility during development and allowing easier transitioning of resources (people) from one project to the next. I'm not talking about like, "ARTIST CAN DO ENCOUNTER SCRIPTING AND NETWORK CODING AS WELL!!!!" levels of flexibility, but I know many places do expect a certain level of flexibility out of employees.
    Oh I imagine but Stephen Reid once confirmed Bioware has a similar system with bug fixing. It was in reply to some anger regarding an emote that was fixed when a much requested class mission fix wasn't included in that particular patch. He explained that Bioware has teams working on different aspects of bug fixing. It's not one large group that is delegated to one fix at a time. But rather many smaller groups tasked with different aspects of bug fixing.

    Just think about what 2 bugs we're talking about here. One is a serious bug whereby unlocks go missing for certain people. It sounds complex as not everyone experiences it. The other bug is a simple cosmetic change to an armor piece. I can't see how we can believe that Bioware chose to fix one over the other. Surely the unlock bug takes more time/resources seeing as they both occured at the same time (dec 2012). Isn't it probable that they have 2 teams or more working on bugs? One team finished the fix before the other.

    I think we can all agree that BW could communicate in detail their current bug whacking procedure though. Vague quotes from Stephen Reid circa Jan 2012 don't hold much sway a year later.
    Last edited by Jamos77; 2013-01-08 at 11:49 PM.
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  15. #55
    The issue with that is twofold:

    1. I don't think it's even been officially acknowledged by BW, which is an issue because the reports of it are pretty widespread.

    2. A bug like that should take top priority as it involves peoples money. That's the kind of bug you pull members off of other fixes (like fixing a cosmetic bug) in order to assist with the big fix.

    I can't help but believe that they are just ignoring the unlock bug for as long as possible and will only deal with it when a big enough stink gets made, as it's a bug that absolutely works in their favor financially (at least that's what they see).

  16. #56
    Bloodsail Admiral Jamos77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    The issue with that is twofold:

    1. I don't think it's even been officially acknowledged by BW, which is an issue because the reports of it are pretty widespread.

    2. A bug like that should take top priority as it involves peoples money. That's the kind of bug you pull members off of other fixes (like fixing a cosmetic bug) in order to assist with the big fix.

    I can't help but believe that they are just ignoring the unlock bug for as long as possible and will only deal with it when a big enough stink gets made, as it's a bug that absolutely works in their favor financially (at least that's what they see).
    1) That is worrying. So it's not even been acknowledged? Ok now I can see why some are pessimistic about BW's intentions regarding this bug.

    2) Isn't it just as plausible that there is a team working on the fix and that adding more 'bodies' to that team wouldn't make it go faster. Maybe some were already dragged from other duties but there were still enough coders left over to fix the minor issues.

    Either of us could be right. I hope I am as in your scenario BW is 'a crook'.
    SWG - Jamus Divinus - Bria 2005-2011

    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    There is plenty to criticize with the game and BioWares handling of it without resorting to exaggeration, so let's not do it : /

  17. #57
    I haven't seen any official acknowledgement. I don't claim to know everything the officially say, but I think I do a reasonably good job of staying up-to-date with info that comes out.

    I agree that throwing more bodies at the problem doesn't necessarily make it go faster (more cooks in the kitchen ect. ect.), it's just disconcerting to see it still around as it's apparently been an issue since the transition in November : /

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    Actually I was thinking about this. The way this reads:
    Originally Posted by SWTOR
    Subscribers and Preferred Status Players who have more than the current character limits will be allowed to keep and play all characters. No new characters may be created on the account until the number of characters on the account falls under the Global Active Character Limit for the account type, even if additional character slots are purchased.


    It makes it seem like you won't have to pick which ones to keep active anymore. Like apparently you will be able to use all of them you just won't be able to make new ones on that server.
    I know you quoted them directly but it is not true. As PSP now (my sub just expired), the character select screen is telling me I can only activate 6 (I have 9). Sorry Kitty, time to kill some of your children.

  19. #59
    I let my sub lapse again, dont want to try F2P with my account, to scared they will bork it up. I bought some unlocks like inventory and cargo space, because it was cheaper to buy with cartel coins then spend the in game money on. Im afraid if i try F2P it will reset my unlocks. When I left I still had 16 character slots on my main server, from the server merges. I almost made characters on the 3rd PVE-RPG server when I started, but I didnt, I could of had 24 character slots.

    So Im going to try F2P and start from scratch to see how good or bad it is compared to a sub.

  20. #60
    Companions "unify color" is working again, so I'm happy.

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