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  1. #1
    Blademaster
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    "Balance" destroyed our wow

    Ever since blizzard used the words "balance" (WOTLK) PvP has gone down the drain.

    Pls discuss(only players who have played TBC/Vanilla PvP)

  2. #2
    There was no balance in vanilla, I used to kill players naked (while fishing/guarding stables) cause my class was so OP. TBC was good fun but there were some horrible issues with classes/pve gear abuse. There was no golden age of balanced PVP in WoW, just periods that, with hindsight, seem more balanced than they are now.
    Stormscale Horde EU | http://lastrogue.com

  3. #3
    Yeah you're right I miss 40 sec polymorph and mace stun too.

  4. #4
    balance is an illusion.

    the only way to have balance is for every class/spec to be exactly the same. then you might as well just have 1 class one spec.. i remember years ago someone at blizzard got this point and even said it them selves.. unfortantly that got lost somewhere.

  5. #5
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Let me remind how rogues could kill you while naked, using grey level 1 daggers...
    Balance now ain't great either, but it's defo better then vanilla.

  6. #6
    Grunt Stunlol's Avatar
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    We've never really had balance and tbh, we never will, the massive amount of abilities in the game and more that keep being added get us further and further away from balance.

    Tbh, I miss the whole anti-class, rock-paper-scissors setup, made it much more amusing.

  7. #7
    WotLK was where balanced peaked.
    Vanilla and TBC never even got close to getting out of the drain.

    Quote Originally Posted by shadofall View Post
    balance is an illusion.

    the only way to have balance is for every class/spec to be exactly the same. then you might as well just have 1 class one spec.. i remember years ago someone at blizzard got this point and even said it them selves.. unfortantly that got lost somewhere.
    Very negative way of looking at it. If you follow this attitude then there is no chance of balance.

  8. #8
    Blizzard has pretty much admitted that the PVP aspects of the game can never be fully balanced; so the term is relative.

    The only way they'd be able to do this is if they made PVE and PVP completely disparate elements, which will never happen.

  9. #9
    I strongly disagree. PvP in Vanilla was rediculous grind (got warlord back then) where you 2-3 shot everything (as a destrolock) or die in rogues opener. In tBC most hybrids were in a dire state, macestun won games, viper sting oomed mage and priest in RMP 90 sec into the game max etc. etc. To say pvp went down the drain in WotLK is silly, it was never good but probably in past 2 expansions more specs could play then in tBC (not even mentioning classic - BGslol).

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by hammock View Post
    WotLK was where balanced peaked.
    Vanilla and TBC never even got close to getting out of the drain.
    Seasons 3 and 4 were ok. 1 and 2 were kind of a clusterfuck because nooooone know what they were doing.
    Season 5 was a joke, cause dks. but season 6 and 7 were very good. season 8 casters started getting out of control.

    in retrospect a lot of seasons in cata were fairly balanced. s10 particularly, but because mmr got so broken that season no one really noticed that it was. warriors were a little out of control in s9, and locks still spammed drain mana but the dot cleave really hadn't emerged as a viable playstyle at that point. at high ratings S11 was caster heaven but there was still a fairly decent spread of comps in the mid range.

    i have no idea whats going on this season....
    " I need a sec, my wrists hurt from spamming slam so hard. Playing cleave vs cleave is tough stuff guys"

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    Yeah you're right I miss 40 sec polymorph and mace stun too.
    Or when you'd fear someone and have to chase them down, while they were still feared, in order to actually kill them.

    Vanilla really brings to mind the quote, "it was the best of times, it was the worst of times".

    The biggest difference between Vanilla, and today, is that the pvp system didn't care what class, or comp, that you ran. It simply cared that you ran it a lot. So any class was capable of HWL/GM status and we didn't have the never-ending "nerf, nurf" that we do today. There were also a lot more exotic items that tied into pvp: grenades, mind-control helmet, rocket helmet, shrink ray, net gun. There were also armor pieces that did unique things and potions were more useful. That's, mostly, all gone today in favor of "balance". And, balance has also led to a lot more homogenization with the classes. Most specs/classes have both offensive and defensive cool downs, most can burst, most can CC, well, most can do everything.

    I would like to see more items that do unique things brought into the game and I actually think the new talent trees are a good first step in that direction. I also liked that you could either pve or pvp for gear in Vanilla. I barely ran any dungeons, never finished MC, in fact, but having gear out there that you could grind, or hunt down, was OK with me. Today I just run a few BG's to farm honor, go to the dude, buy my stuff and other than a weapon I'm done.

    At the same time, anyone who remembers Vanilla pvp as a great time was on a different server than me. Max level pvp consisted of premades stomping on pugs. From 6pm to 11pm, and all weekend, if you weren't on a premade you could literally queue into one every time. The reason wasn't that the other faction had 100% premades running, it was our faction's premades scouting and dropping Q against premades. It would literally be all night long zoning into a game with 10 Ally in your base down a flag cap. Then there were the T2 premades. One group I remember used to have a tank grab the flag then just run around the middle healing him and it would go on for hours. And we had bots (nothing like it is today but some), a massive AFK problem in TBC (today those guys are all botting), fishermen in AV, guys levitating on ledges, on roofs, all kinds of stuff.

    Despite all of that, I remember it being a lot more fun than today's game.

  12. #12
    This thread is about how NOT having balance made the game better.

    And I agree, any class can aoe heal, any class can aoe dps, any class can kite, any class can CC


    Vanilla/BC = Only certain classes had specialties of such natures and thats what made it fun

    5.2 Disc Priest Guide | Retired(Playing Aion)

  13. #13
    High Overlord Kissme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hammock View Post
    WotLK was where balanced peaked.
    Vanilla and TBC never even got close to getting out of the drain.



    Very negative way of looking at it. If you follow this attitude then there is no chance of balance.
    I'd argue that balance was shit in WotLK too - too much burst.

    Vanilla - was a joke. As an BWL/AQ40 geared rogue I could one shot a lot of clothies and even a geared warrior could be killed with ambush - gouge - backstab - stun - backstab - evis. There was little actual balance. That being said, pvp in Vanilla was probably more fun than any other time due to things like AV lasting days, world pvp at SS/TM and Crossroads, WSG being about winning and there being no time limit, and raid vs raid pvp at blackrock and ony.

    TBC - had it's ups and downs. AR prep hemo maces, mace stun warriors, warglaive rogues, etc were all stupidly overpowered at various points. Hybrids still tended to be healers or a waste of space (although SP/Lock in 2s was nasty), and balance was still iffy. On the whole, however, the feel of the games was better than vanilla and survival was good enough that you could do something without dying in a 2 second burst window.

    WotLK - terrible burst dps combined with comparatively low health pools. While more specs became viable, the actual quality of pvp decreased due to how easy it was to kill things and the general switch to everything being about honor per hour and points capping rather than winning.

    Cataclysm - not bad early on with increased health pools and lowered relative damage leading to battles rather games of hide and burst. Legendaries, pve trinkets, and scaling caused issues as the expansion developed. In addition classes were becoming overly homogenized and CC prevailance was getting out of hand.

    MoP - no idea since I quit before it came out, but it seems that burst is a huge problem again, CC has become blanketed with every class having stuns/silences/etc, and no real benefits.

    On the whole balance, especially spec wise for viability, has gotten better throughout WoW's lifespan, but that seems to have a direct correlation with a decrease in the fun of pvp. Everything is becoming homogenized and flavorless. It's become about the grind and not about the battle. Basically, balance in PvP is relatively impossible and they should return to a more paper/rock/scissors design for pvp accompanied by a reduction on the proliferation of CC. Make stuns and silences rare but powerful due to that rarity.

    PvP in the game has never been very balanced, but at one point it was fun. Maybe they should focus on bringing the fun back and let balance be a secondary consideration.

  14. #14
    he's obviously a troll... dont feed him

  15. #15
    i disagree completely.
    WOTLK and MoP are the most fun pvp play styles i had in this game.

  16. #16
    balance for pvp went out the window when mlg and such dropped wow arena, from then pvp was "when we get around to it" for the developers, if they were actually serous about wow pvp on any level they would be hiring pure pvp developers.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by HolyLathusDisc View Post
    This thread is about how NOT having balance made the game better.

    And I agree, any class can aoe heal, any class can aoe dps, any class can kite, any class can CC


    Vanilla/BC = Only certain classes had specialties of such natures and thats what made it fun
    Hunters and Rogues have AoE heals now? Jeeze

  18. #18
    pvp was ever balanced? was anything in this game ever balanced? what is this 'balance' you speak of?

  19. #19
    Blademaster
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    -walkingtall

    I totally agree with you!

    I prefered the oldschool bg's, massive premade vs premade(which were the "RBG's" of back then)

    And -Kissme

    It took as much devotion to the game getting AQ40/NAxx gear as it took getting GM/HW gear so I totally disagree with you.

    Imo, PVP has gotten so bad I am thinking of quitting RETAIL(most of you understand what I mean by that) and try my luck/fun elsewhere.

    Sad to see the best MMORPG from top going down the drain by listening to the crying kids asking for nerfs nurfs nervvvvvvvvvvvvs

  20. #20
    Herald of the Titans naturetauren's Avatar
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    What i have seen pvp is unbalanced because of Blizzard ignoring feedback and because of their fanbase saying that people that are right are wrong.

    Take example MOP beta. "LOL STOP WHINING DUDE SKILLS WILL BE CHANGED" this is the kind of people i dislike because they are the main reason this game will be unbalanced. No mather what kind of thing Blizzard is doing they are defending it.
    OP spells at Ashran? Based on faction population? Yes, WODs gonna be the most awesome expansion ever! Propably gonna hit under 4 million sub mark.

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