Thread: He, She...

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  1. #61
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopk View Post
    It's gramatically wrong. There's absolutely no way that one can make an argument for it otherwise.

    However, it's a mistake that is made so damn much that it's often overlooked, and most people (people unlike myself who aren't grammar freaks) just accept it. It isn't grammatically correct - but give it a good 100 years - it eventually will be.

    Edit: Grokan- unless I read something terribly wrong, the definition only talks about plurals, not singulars.
    Yeah, my mind is out to dinner, apparently. My mistake.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grokan View Post
    Guess I'm not just as much of a grammar freak as you.
    I sincerely wish that more people were grammar freaks. :-\ It is a chore to put up with "I stealed there kill."
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by MasterHamster View Post
    "Hen" is just gender-neutral bullshit by those who think gender is merely a social construct
    but gender is a social construct.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    but gender is a social construct.
    Having a penis is a social construct, apparently. No; gender roles are social constructs.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  5. #65
    Old God Grizzly Willy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    I sincerely wish that more people were grammar freaks. :-\ It is a chore to put up with "I stealed there kill."
    It's not that I don't care about grammar, I'm just a bit more lax. I would suppose that I am a bit of a "freak;" whenever I hear somebody say "myself and my friend" I want to yell at them.

  6. #66
    I am Murloc! Garnier Fructis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Having a penis is a social construct, apparently. No; gender roles are social constructs.
    My God, I was drinking a cup of water when I read this and almost spit it out laughing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dejablue View Post
    Is physics forever relegated to reiterating integrals that can never approach the derivative limits of true reality?
    Quote Originally Posted by auBerg View Post
    You are a certified crackpot that is subservient to the manipulators of science who are dreaming to control knowledge.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Didactic View Post
    Having a penis is a social construct, apparently. No; gender roles are social constructs.
    you can be a woman with a penis or a man with a vagina.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by lopk View Post
    It's gramatically wrong. There's absolutely no way that one can make an argument for it otherwise.

    However, it's a mistake that is made so damn much that it's often overlooked, and most people (people unlike myself who aren't grammar freaks) just accept it. It isn't grammatically correct - but give it a good 100 years - it eventually will be.

    Edit: Person above me - unless I read something terribly wrong, the definition only talks about plurals, not singulars.
    Ah, so it is. Grammar and language do tend to change over time, though. "They" in a gender neutral case sounds better to me than saying ze or w/e.

  9. #69
    I am Murloc! Garnier Fructis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    you can be a woman with a penis or a man with a vagina.
    Perhaps mentally, but you're not going to socially construct your way out of being born a biological male or female.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dejablue View Post
    Is physics forever relegated to reiterating integrals that can never approach the derivative limits of true reality?
    Quote Originally Posted by auBerg View Post
    You are a certified crackpot that is subservient to the manipulators of science who are dreaming to control knowledge.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamdwelf View Post
    you can be a woman with a penis or a man with a vagina.
    They call it intersex for a reason.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  11. #71
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    No one uses the word "Hen", except a small minority. And the minority who do use it are generally so obsessed with it they use it even when the gender is known, for example calling me, a male, hen instead of han, which I find insulting. If it's unsure what gender it is about or if it's a transsexual in question then sure, but it's rude to enforce it on everyone else. If it was just the bold part I wouldn't mind it, but it's not.
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Zeus View Post
    Hello

    Is there some kind of English word that describes a person by its gender but you don't want to say the gender of the person? This may sound confusing, so let me explain it!

    In Sweden we got a word called "Hen", which basiaclly means he or she. It could be either of them, but the writer doesn't want to tell the reader what, maybe because of various reasons (for example that the gender of the person doesn't matter etc, etc...)

    Here's an example that I will write in Swedish then translate it to English.

    "Hen öppnade dörren med en nyckel"
    "... opened the door with a key"

    Also when you search for a job in some companies, they want you to define yourself as an individual with han, hon or hen.

    Han = He
    Hon = She
    Hen = ?

    Tell me if you still don't understand and I'll try to explain it for you
    Do we need a post for this every week because Swedish people have some sort of attention disorder?

  13. #73
    Scarab Lord Zka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    For english the gender-neutral pronouns are Zhe, zher, zhim.
    That's a proposal, I've never seen/heard it so far. Let's stick with "one"

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  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier Fructis View Post
    Perhaps mentally, but you're not going to socially construct your way out of being born a biological male or female.
    but being male/female is different than man/woman.

    one is physiological while the other is a social construct.

  15. #75
    Immortal mistuhbull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lopk View Post
    It's gramatically wrong. There's absolutely no way that one can make an argument for it otherwise.

    However, it's a mistake that is made so damn much that it's often overlooked, and most people (people unlike myself who aren't grammar freaks) just accept it. It isn't grammatically correct - but give it a good 100 years - it eventually will be.

    Edit: Grokan- unless I read something terribly wrong, the definition only talks about plurals, not singulars.
    If one should decide to skip class, then they will be docked a full letter grade.

    Singular they, grammatically correct. It's not frquent that a singular they is correct, but it is possible
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alsompr View Post
    Teasing, misdirection. It's the opposite of a spoiler. People expect one thing? BAM! Another thing happens.

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  16. #76
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    Isn't "he" considered gender neutral when no gender is specified?

    But frankly, I can't stand seeing "he/she" or "they" for singular pronouns when gender is unknown. And "it" is for objects. I just pick "he" or "she" and move on.

    If a video game developer removed tumors from players, they'd whine about nerfing their loss in weight and access to radiation powers. -Cracked.com

  17. #77
    The Insane Didactic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    If one should decide to skip class, then they will be docked a full letter grade.

    Singular they, grammatically correct. It's not frquent that a singular they is correct, but it is possible
    That is because "they" refers to "one" which is generalist.
    Right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.
    - Thucydides

    There is a modern myth that people have always tended towards democracy, constitutions, electoral rights; but in truth, love of freedom has never been the predominant note of popular politics. At most times, popular demand has been for a strong government.
    - Eugen Weber

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by UnifiedDivide View Post
    I think "They" is the only word that works really.

    "It" is more commonly used for objects I would say.
    They is not correct, since you can't use a plural to refer to a singular.

    You should say "He/she opened the door."

    it is also acceptable in some circles to say "He opened the door" even if you have no idea if it is a man or woman. It's similar to how you can open a letter with "Dear sir" as a generic introduction rather than "Dear sir or madam"

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 05:54 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mistuhbull View Post
    If one should decide to skip class, then they will be docked a full letter grade.

    Singular they, grammatically correct. It's not frquent that a singular they is correct, but it is possible
    That is not correct. In your example, it would be "If one should decide to skip class, then one will be docked a full letter grade."


    >>>
    "However, it is generally regarded as a bad idea to mix the impersonal or generic pronoun one with another pronoun, especially in the same sentence, as in 'If one fails, then he/you must simply try harder.'
    http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/one.htm
    <<<
    Humans are the only species on the planet smart enough to be this stupid.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by lopk View Post
    It's gramatically wrong. There's absolutely no way that one can make an argument for it otherwise.

    However, it's a mistake that is made so damn much that it's often overlooked, and most people (people unlike myself who aren't grammar freaks) just accept it. It isn't grammatically correct - but give it a good 100 years - it eventually will be.

    Edit: Grokan- unless I read something terribly wrong, the definition only talks about plurals, not singulars.
    A quick perusal of the "They (singular)" wiki quoted before shows that it has been in use for a very long time. English doesn't have an institution that dictates what is considered grammatically correct (Académie Française, Real Academia Española, etc.), so unless you're following a style manual/guide, it's hard to say it's categorically wrong.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by bigfootbigd View Post
    For english the gender-neutral pronouns are Zhe, zher, zhim.
    Or you could say "one" which is more commonly used
    Not entirely true. While I agree with the general idea, it's not in the English language; it's mainly used by the LGBTQ community. Or rather: The more... Militant groups.

    The correct pronoun in the English language is 'They.'

    Besides, 'Zhe, Zhim, Zher...' Sorry, but it sounds absolutely ridiculous; something from out of a children's magic book.

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