Culling of Stratholme

[Maxilian]

Hey, i have a question that have been bothering me for years..., What´s the culling of stratholme that wrong?, i mean i know it was cruel to kill all those innocent people, but in the end it was for the greater good (Think about the Arthas in that moment, forget about the part when he becomes the LK and kill thousands of people), when he did that he saved many many people and delayed the scourge expansion in the eastern kingdom, most of the character say that what he did there was not the right thing..., that there should have been another way..., but there wasn´t another way!, until now noone have find a cure for those that have been infected (nor to those that are still alive and infected by the scourge plague and will rise soon to become one of them or to those that are already undeads), IMO Arthas desicion was a cruel one but was the best for those who could have been saved.

[Deleted]

Uther: You can not simply...

Arthas: OK UTHER DO WHATEVER YOU WANT!

"Arthas walks away from stratholmes gate"

Uther: "Pokerface"

Jaina: I hope you have a better plan genius.

[Deathgoose]

Paladins spent the entirety of Vanilla being cleanse (and buff) bots, and it never occured to Arthas to run around spamming cleanse?

Yep, he truly was a retnoob.

[Thulvaso]

He thought he was doing something good for his people, even if it meant sacrificing the innocents of the city for the good of Lordareon. Wrong move imo, turns out it didn't matter anyway.

I guess I could also add that if you were a citizen of Lordareon and you heard your future king just slaughtered an entire city how would you feel ?

[Thage]

The Culling is a moral quandary. On one hand, fast action was necessary due to the potential for the undead populace of Stratholme to sweep through Lordaeron and turn a crisis into a catastrophe. On the other hand, Arthas butchered everyone regardless of whether or not they were infected and, as seen in the ingame version, people seeking to flee the city were cut down without hesitation. In the novel Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, it's shown that even the Light disapproved of the Culling as it forsook Arthas at some time, before the surviving Stratholme citizens began defending themselves (which made it easier for Arthas's men to justify as now it was self-defense as well as a righteous culling). Everyone who knows of the Culling has, so far, acknowledged the difficulty in Arthas's choice and don't damn him for the Culling, but lament that the Culling is what broke him and drove him mad. Were Arthas not already pushed to the brink by what he'd seen in Strahnbrad he likely could have kept his mind intact through the Culling and repented as a paladin.

[Dreyo]

The issue with Culling of Stratholme is that the story that plays out in the instance isn't quite the same as the one in Warcraft 3. In Warcraft 3, Mal'ganis was directly harvesting the infected townsfolk, and so killing them had nothing to do with relieving their suffering but rather preventing them from being used to bolster the enemy's forces. It was only partially about preventing the spread of the infection beyond the city. That was an important part, yes, but there was a direct antagonism and a race to purge the city in the Warcraft 3 version that isn't present in the WoW version. The eagerness to which you as the player have to engage in the slaughter of the citizens has a huge impact on how the morality of the situation feels.

[Count Zero]

Freedom isn't free

[Deleted]

Arthas did what was right.

Either he killed those as humans or he killed them after they were taken by the plague.

Better the first option .

[McNeil]

The people in Stratholme were already dead, there was simply no cure for the plague. Arthas only helped them to give a clean death, instead of getting ressurected as a mindless zombie, that would likely even kill their beloved ones.

If Mal'Ganis succeeded in Stratholme, than Lordaeron would've been overrun with the undead. And every human that dies will likely get ressurected by the Scourge necromancers aswell, bolstering their forces even more. With Arthas having prevented this however, he saved Lordaerom from total destruction.

If you've seen Arthas at Hearthglen, he saw how fast his people were turning. And how powerfull a few zombies can be even against a rather large human army. Uther and Jaina should've helped Arthas, they could've prevented him from picking up Frostmourne. With all the ''this is not right!'' nonsense, they've brought the destruction of Lordaeron to themselves.

[Shampro]

Prince Arthas = the Alliance version of Garrosh Hellscream. He had good intensions, but took things to the extreme and in the process hes lust for power came into play.

[Aquamonkey]

before the surviving Stratholme citizens began defending themselves (which made it easier for Arthas's men to justify as now it was self-defense as well as a righteous culling).

lol, no. You can't call self defense against someone using self defense. "You got it all wrong officer. I broke into that man's house so I could steal his stuff. Then he attacked me. I killed him in self defense." Seems legit.

[Monolith of Mazes]

The culling was one of the biggest nails in Arthas' coffin. It was probably the right thing to do for the greater good of Lordaeron, but also helped to drive a noble paladin down a path that resulted in the creation of the Lich King, which you could argue is the worse outcome overall than letting Lordaeron be overrun.

Anyway, Arthas' fate was sealed long before the culling. The culling was just one stop on the road.

[Deleted]

Hey, i have a question that have been bothering me for years..., What´s the culling of stratholme that wrong?, i mean i know it was cruel to kill all those innocent people, but in the end it was for the greater good (Think about the Arthas in that moment, forget about the part when he becomes the LK and kill thousands of people), when he did that he saved many many people and delayed the scourge expansion in the eastern kingdom, most of the character say that what he did there was not the right thing..., that there should have been another way..., but there wasn´t another way!, until now noone have find a cure for those that have been infected (nor to those that are still alive and infected by the scourge plague and will rise soon to become one of them or to those that are already undeads), IMO Arthas desicion was a cruel one but was the best for those who could have been saved.

he didnt cull anything i can walk into stratholme right now and the place will be swarmed with scourge (maby the baron will even drop my mount) :P

[Deleted]

Funny thing is, Arthas possibly somehow saved the world. Who knows what might have happened had he not purged Stratholme. The Scourge might have been too powerful to stop at all and Archimonde would have possibly succeeded. Had Arthas not saved Ner'Zul from Illidan, the Legion would've probably had a by far easier time to come up with a new strategy to "conquer" Azeroth.

Becoming the LK was kind of the lesser evil than letting the Burning Legion wreck havoc on Azeroth.

[DemoBytom]

Arthas did what he had to do IMHO..
What was the nail to his coffin is how he got overwhelmed by anger to get MalGanis. He let his emotions drive him after the Culling, he was mad at MalGanis, he was mad at Jaina. It led him to a point where he murdered mercenaries that fought for him in Northrend, then lied to his own men about who burnt the ships up to eventually picking up the Frostmourne.
Culling had to be done. But he should remain calm after it. He didn't, he fell to the dark side..

As for Jaina - I really think that she let him down. She, as a powerful mage and someone who saw what the Scourge is capable of doing, someone who saw the plagued grains, who saw the plague.. She should stick with him.. She turned her back on him, left him alone. She helped him fall..

[Guyviroth]

It needed to be done, simply put. Let's put it into perspective.

Within moments, just mere moments, of Arthas making his decision, Mal'Ganis had already began to convert humans to his own small army at a very fast rate, evident in both the WC3 campaign at Caverns of Time dungeon. There was simply no time frame to allow the Silver Hand to "find another way" as Uther had suggested because, by then, the entirety of Stratholme and possibly even Lordaeron itself would had been overrun by the Scourge.

And this is why I cannot bring myself to like Uther or Jaina. It was their short-sighted ideals which caused them to leave Arthas to the purge himself and, ultimately, to his emotional downfall. If the two of them had understood that, no, there was no other way and if they did nothing there would be an even bigger problem, they could have stayed with the prince and provide emotional support to him through all of it.

This has been shown as a metaphysical moral decision once again with the healing of Zen-shin Tsu near the end of the Pandaren quest line as well; if they had waited for the idea of a better plan then the great turtle could have very well died. It's these kinds of decisions that makes good writing and, ultimately, great character development.

[Deleted]

As for Jaina - I really think that she let him down. She, as a powerful mage and someone who saw what the Scourge is capable of doing, someone who saw the plagued grains, who saw the plague.. She should stick with him.. She turned her back on him, left him alone. She helped him fall..

Totally agree with you. Same with Uther (or even moreso, since he was his tutor, his role-model and his superior as a paladin).

[McNeil]

Funny thing is, Arthas possibly somehow saved the world. Who knows what might have happened had he not purged Stratholme. The Scourge might have been too powerful to stop at all and Archimonde would have possibly succeeded. Had Arthas not saved Ner'Zul from Illidan, the Legion would've probably had a by far easier time to come up with a new strategy to "conquer" Azeroth.

Becoming the LK was kind of the lesser evil than letting the Burning Legion wreck havoc on Azeroth.

Lets not forget, Arthas also tipped Illidan on how to kill Tichondrius. If Tichondrius was at the Battle of Mount Hyjal, they would've reached the World Tree in no time. Before the wisps have arrived.

The Scourge wanted to get rid of the Burning Legion, but they couldn't have done it without Arthas. Ner'Zhul would've probably still be working for Kil'Jaeden to destroy Azeroth.

[bionics]

As most have said in this thread, Arthas did what needed to be done; however, it was an extremely troublesome moral decision that had to be made.

Would it have been better to just set the whole city ablaze or kill them in one fell swoop or bludgeon them one by one like Arthas did? I think Jaina and Uther were more surprised at the fact that Arthas didn't falter or hesitate once in his decision and showed very little restraint or remorse while slaying the Stratholme denizens.

[Deleted]

Lets not forget, Arthas also tipped Illidan on how to kill Tichondrius. If Tichondrius was at the Battle of Mount Hyjal, they would've reached the World Tree in no time. Before the wisps have arrived.

The Scourge wanted to get rid of the Burning Legion, but they couldn't have done it without Arthas. Ner'Zhul would've probably still be working for Kil'Jaeden to destroy Azeroth.

Exactly. In the end, Arthas couldn't have even dreamt about having such an impact on the history of Azeroth if he wouldn't have turned "evil". As a paladin, he would've just died in either the war against the Scourge, or the Legion. The former would've probably even made him part of the Scourge. Oh, the irony...

---------- Post added 2013-01-08 at 11:58 PM ----------

I think Jaina and Uther were more surprised at the fact that Arthas didn't falter or hesitate once in his decision and showed very little restraint or remorse while slaying the Stratholme denizens.

But they dispised his plan even before he killed anyone. That's kind of what makes them the ones responsible for Arthas turning into the fallen hero we know him to be. They could've tried to stop him. They could've just stayed and tried to at least stop him from getting corrupted. So many ways, but the only thing they do is "yeah lol let's leave him he hurt our feelings".