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  1. #161
    Cookie Monster Radux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beriohtarion View Post
    Have you ever thought of adding an Air Elemental Totem or Pet for Enhancement and make the Earth Elemental for Warden(like Xuen).
    Honestly not really. As it is I don't even like Primal Elementalist (live or my version).
    My perfect-world-ideal solution would be to get rid of that level 90 talent, but I'm not sure what would replace it.

    As per what I have down in my suggestion, basically Fire Elemental would be the go to for Elemental and Enhancement, where it would have a single target ability, AoE ability, and a utility that could benefit the Shaman.

    Earth Elemental would be for Warden (and Resto to a lesser extent). It would have an AoE attack, a taunt, and some sort of utility that could benefit the Shaman.

    Obviously they could be interchangeable depending on if you needed more defense (I would assume the EE would have a defensive utility) or need more raid damage (where resto would use FE or something).

    I've just never been a big 'pet' person. Nor have I ever really imagined Shaman as a class that fit that role. The closest I would come to a compromise (outside my own suggestion for a 90 talent - which I'm still very iffy on) would be perma-wolves for Enh. But obviously they would have to be redone, and could only happen if PE went away.


    Finally, to add to the part you quoted. Shaman are still able to wield all elements. Specifically with Elementals, we're not really 'masters' of them. Rather, we just ask for their aid. So using a FE for Enh isn't really stretching outside of anything. I just like a clearly defined theme within stuff.
    Last edited by Radux; 2013-02-07 at 06:02 PM.

  2. #162
    Dreadlord Aurokk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by radux View Post
    realize this fell off the main page, and it's been about a week and a half. But i've been working on this little bit by little bit for a while now.

    I'm just linking the document through google docs since the length would cause me to hit the word cap for a single post. And i don't feel like reformatting this for vbulletin.

    Yes. I know some of it is a little over the top.

    So. Criticism welcome and stuff. Will happily answer questions if i didn't make something clear in my tossed-together comments.

    Also, i didn't 100% finish. Still need to finish out 3 more talents. But i totally just hit a wall and felt it was close enough, since i didn't want to push off posting this more and more.

    Edit:

    I also should clarify on other things i would improve:
    - better/new elemental aoe that isn't just cl spam.
    - several things with warden. Specifically a more consistent aoe.

    all of my money

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  3. #163
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radux View Post
    Honestly not really. As it is I don't even like Primal Elementalist (live or my version).
    My perfect-world-ideal solution would be to get rid of that level 90 talent, but I'm not sure what would replace it.

    As per what I have down in my suggestion, basically Fire Elemental would be the go to for Elemental and Enhancement, where it would have a single target ability, AoE ability, and a utility that could benefit the Shaman.

    Earth Elemental would be for Warden (and Resto to a lesser extent). It would have an AoE attack, a taunt, and some sort of utility that could benefit the Shaman.

    Obviously they could be interchangeable depending on if you needed more defense (I would assume the EE would have a defensive utility) or need more raid damage (where resto would use FE or something).

    I've just never been a big 'pet' person. Nor have I ever really imagined Shaman as a class that fit that role. The closest I would come to a compromise (outside my own suggestion for a 90 talent - which I'm still very iffy on) would be perma-wolves for Enh. But obviously they would have to be redone, and could only happen if PE went away.


    Finally, to add to the part you quoted. Shaman are still able to wield all elements. Specifically with Elementals, we're not really 'masters' of them. Rather, we just ask for their aid. So using a FE for Enh isn't really stretching outside of anything. I just like a clearly defined theme within stuff.
    Well i do agree with you that Shamans shouldn't be a Pet class, but i read that you wanted to change the Enhancement shaman to more of a Lightning Warrior. Combined with that you want to give more focus towards an Specific Element. I would have connected the Air Elemental for Enhance.

  4. #164
    Cookie Monster Radux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beriohtarion View Post
    Well i do agree with you that Shamans shouldn't be a Pet class, but i read that you wanted to change the Enhancement shaman to more of a Lightning Warrior. Combined with that you want to give more focus towards an Specific Element. I would have connected the Air Elemental for Enhance.
    Yeah I agree with that. But like I said, I really haven't been a huge fan of Elemental (EE, FE) totems, or their talent for a while. They work, but not a fan.

  5. #165
    Grunt Amaravati's Avatar
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    For Elemental Shaman I'd like to see:

    Rolling Thunder
    ...additionally each charge of Lightning Shield reduces your damage taken by 2.5%

    Fulmination
    The following abilities now consume your Lightning Shield charges for additional effects.
    Earth Shock - Each consumed charge increases Earth Shocks damage by x% and an additional y% on targets below 20% health
    Earthquake* - Each consumed charge reduces the cast time of Earthquake by 15%

    *Reduce the mana cost of Earthquake and change it to a 100% chance to knockdown on initial tick (no chances on subsequent ticks), 45 second cooldown.

    Glyph of Frost Shock - Your Frost Shock spell no longer shares a cooldown with Flame Shock and Earth Shock and no longer deals any damage.

    New: Astral Switch
    Instantly switch places with your currently selected target.

    Glyph of Ghost Wolf - Baseline
    Glyph of Unleashed Lightning - Baseline (and only increases cast time when moving)

    Capacitor - Reduce the baseline charge time by 1 second, change the glyph to give it a 1 second delay but adding 15s to the cooldown
    Hex - Reduce the cooldown by 10 seconds

    Clear Casting - No longer affects damage dealing spells, instead reduces the cast time and mana cost of healing spells by 25% per charge and increases healing done by 10% (stacking up to 4 times)

    Totems
    - No longer mutually exclusive based on school
    - Stonebulwark and Grounding can be used while stunned or silenced
    - Earthbind/grab, Magma, and Capacitor can be summoned within 30y baseline
    - Change level 45 talents to Ghost Wolf themed tier and rework totem cooldowns

    Level 15 Talents
    Buffed; add a HoT to NG, SBT can stack, AS has an increased duration.
    Last edited by Amaravati; 2013-02-08 at 01:09 AM.

  6. #166
    The only thing I'd like to see is more Earth spells for the class as a whole. Add that, and I'll be happy.

    Quote Originally Posted by caballitomalo View Post
    - Air and Water elemental totems. Water heals and Air does... something... buffs and/or debuff... I don't know just do it! make it just stand there or something XD
    I've never understood why we can't summon all four elementals any why the crap Frost Mages get a Water Elemental.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcanasm View Post

    Resto: Not really sure that they need much, except maybe better mana management in long PVE fights.
    Personally, Resto mana management is great. It always has been imo. I would say that there needs to be another option for regen besides Telluric Currents for those who don't want it.
    Shaman to the core. =]
    I remain confident that one day I will be able to play my favorite class as my favorite race: Worgen Shaman. (cause it makes more sense than a Goblin Shaman...)
    I play Warmachine. You should too. =]

  7. #167
    I'd be pretty happy just getting a sanctity of battle-esq passive for enhancement.

  8. #168
    i got a good 1 i was wondering about...nature damage is increased by X% while lava burst is on CD.
    my friend code...

    5241-1925-7760 name toasty

    up for battles ...after 10/18/2013

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Radux View Post
    Realize this fell off the main page, and it's been about a week and a half. But I've been working on this little bit by little bit for a while now.

    I'm just linking the document through Google Docs since the length would cause me to hit the word cap for a single post. And I don't feel like reformatting this for VBulletin.

    Yes. I know some of it is a little over the top.

    So. Criticism welcome and stuff. Will happily answer questions if I didn't make something clear in my tossed-together comments.

    Also, I didn't 100% finish. Still need to finish out 3 more talents. But I totally just hit a wall and felt it was close enough, since I didn't want to push off posting this more and more.

    EDIT:

    I also should clarify on other things I would improve:
    - Better/New Elemental AoE that isn't just CL spam.
    - Several things with Warden. Specifically a more consistent AoE.
    I like seeing someone taking Warden seriously. 2Hd tank FTW.

    I can't tell from your document, but what would you imagine their gear stats would be? I don't see any reliance on either Int or Agi, your Mail Spec enhances Stamina, and since (I don't believe) there is any Dodge mail I don't know what incentive a Warden would have to take Agi over Int.

  10. #170
    Cookie Monster Radux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Futhark View Post
    I like seeing someone taking Warden seriously. 2Hd tank FTW.

    I can't tell from your document, but what would you imagine their gear stats would be? I don't see any reliance on either Int or Agi, your Mail Spec enhances Stamina, and since (I don't believe) there is any Dodge mail I don't know what incentive a Warden would have to take Agi over Int.
    Sorry I never got back to this earlier:

    Obviously they'd have to be Agility, as it gives attack power and Dodge.

    I'll admit I had trouble tossing together ideas that put emphasis on purely Crit/Haste/Mastery (so you would just share Hunter/Enh gear) without stuff like "Haste = Parry now!".

    One could argue that the addition of Parry to Flurry isn't quite maintenance-y enough for such a huge boost of avoidance for little to no thought.

    Basically it would be broken down by this:
    - Crit = Flurry which means a big Parry boost
    - Haste = More chances to Crit (for Flurry) & faster mana return for more use of their Active Mitigation buttons (which don't get the 75% mana reduction).
    - Mastery = Bigger bubbles for less damage taken, obviously.

    As far as putting it some sort of 'stat order', I have no idea. That would require actual tuned numbers or something.

    I would guess that you'd want some sort of base amount of Haste for steady use of Active Mitigation, as well as a goal amount of Crit to keep up your avoidance as much as possible. I'm not quite sure where Mastery would fit into that equation. Even though it has the possibility to be really powerful, I'd venture to guess that it would be primarily ignored until you can get your Crit/Haste situation figured out a bit more.

    Again that's just guesswork since I have no idea how numbers would actually come together.

  11. #171
    I would rather see a shaman tank spec not rely on current tanking mechanics per se. The obvious way of making a shaman tank spec would be agility shield block, and that's definitely the easiest to work out... it also could utilize enhance/hunter gear, but have to add a agi shield. I'd much rather see a int and spirit based solution though, maybe with some spiritlike mitigation ability that goes off based on int that astral shifts you out of damage. And instead of another melee tank, why not make it a cast based tank? You would have shocks to lead with, and could use a mix of lightning attacks instead of mixing in white hits with occasional yellow specials. Be nice to see a tank that can keep tanking at range that uses spell casts.
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    I would rather see a shaman tank spec not rely on current tanking mechanics per se. The obvious way of making a shaman tank spec would be agility shield block, and that's definitely the easiest to work out... it also could utilize enhance/hunter gear, but have to add a agi shield. I'd much rather see a int and spirit based solution though, maybe with some spiritlike mitigation ability that goes off based on int that astral shifts you out of damage. And instead of another melee tank, why not make it a cast based tank? You would have shocks to lead with, and could use a mix of lightning attacks instead of mixing in white hits with occasional yellow specials. Be nice to see a tank that can keep tanking at range that uses spell casts.
    You can't necessarily tank at a range. Once you damage the mob, it runs to you in melee range. Using casted spells as a tank will also result in pushback which isn't very appealing.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Sammoura View Post
    You can't necessarily tank at a range. Once you damage the mob, it runs to you in melee range. Using casted spells as a tank will also result in pushback which isn't very appealing.
    Well it would be a different tanking spec, plus you can always just give them pushback protection in exchange for the less damage the spells would have to do.

    I figure why bother making a shaman tanking spec and make it just like other tanking specs.
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  14. #174
    I have some thoughts, and nothing OP either.

    1/ Make Feral Spirit a talent open to all specs. Tweek it a little so its not overpowered or 'manditory'. Perhaps even have different functions depending on spec (similar to how many Monk talents operate currently).

    2/ Glyph of Totem Fetish. Basically turning the Searing Totem into a Guardian Pet that doesn't need to be summoned, and follows you around.

    3/ Replace Earthquake and Healing Rain with Elemental Storm. Essentially combines the two. Open to all specs. Does increased damage for Elemental and Enhancement, and increased healing for Restoration.

    4/ Glyph of Lighting Shield (new). Lightning Shield now does pulsing AoE damage, but Fulmination and Static Shock no longer function. Gives Enhancement some nice AoE damage at the expense of single target DPS. Also means it works in a more similar fashion as Lightning Shield from WC3.

    5/ Glyph of Chain Lightning (new). Chain Lightning is now channeled instead of cast.

    6/ Spiritwalker's Grace. No cooldown, lasts until cancelled. Allows casting while moving, but increases cast times by 25%. Makes the spell feel more useful, and makes the Shaman a much more mobile caster, but at the expense of slower casts.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-18 at 11:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by oblivionx View Post
    Well it would be a different tanking spec, plus you can always just give them pushback protection in exchange for the less damage the spells would have to do.

    I figure why bother making a shaman tanking spec and make it just like other tanking specs.
    Only way a ranged tank would work is if you're essentially using a pet to do the tanking.

    This could work for Shaman if its a 'spirit double' that acts as a pet, but is soul-linked to the Shaman and both take damage the other suffers and healing the other one receives.

    Might be very clunky though. Plus we already have five tanking classes already!

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post



    Only way a ranged tank would work is if you're essentially using a pet to do the tanking.

    This could work for Shaman if its a 'spirit double' that acts as a pet, but is soul-linked to the Shaman and both take damage the other suffers and healing the other one receives.

    Might be very clunky though. Plus we already have five tanking classes already!
    I was really only talking about a tank with ranged attacks, not actually a tank that tanks at range.
    The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities.

  16. #176
    I'd like to see a passive 20% incoming damage reduction, so we can survive being trained more. Also ascendance giving us aura mastery for the entire duration would be great and balanced, since you can just stun us or LoS us anyway. Also being able to cast spells while in ghost wolf form so we can kite melee better and not be kiting all the time doing 0 damage. With all these buffs, we would be viable and not overpowered, I assure you all. No sarcasm anywhere in this post.

  17. #177
    Dreadlord Roangut's Avatar
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    Disclaimer: I read through the first 5 pages, and I got lazy so i stopped. So sorry if any of my suggestions are repeats or whatever.

    First of all I'd also like to say that this is coming from a Enhance pvp shaman perspective, since that's what I like to play. I can't speak for ele, resto, or pve much.

    There are really only a few things that "I" think shamans need to be a balanced class in pvp: a survival CD, an execute, and a CC. I know we have shamanistic rage and hex, and those are all good, but hear me through on this before jumping down my throat with "OMG thats 2 OP!" comments.

    1. Survival CD - Having been on both ends of this in arena and BGs, I know that certain classes are essentially free kills, and by that I mean, if you train them all they can do is flail around hoping their healer is good enough (if existant) to keep them up. Let's face it, almost every other class has some sort of ability that makes you think twice about zerging them (paladin bubble, mage iceblock, hunter deterrence, etc.). Something that if you just focus fire them they can pop to stay alive with their healer CCed or to counter enemy burst CDs. If I recall correctly, DKs and Shaman are the only class that don't have that sort of protection (incidently my two favorite classes to focus fire because of it). This I think should be handled in either a talent tree update, or the new talents should they give us any.

    The way I see it they can give 3 survival cooldown choices. Overcharged lightning, Phase shift, and Repulsion totem.

    Overcharge lightning is the more offensive CD choice, a sort of revenge of the shaman ability. For whatever time, 8 seconds or so, the shaman's lightning shield would reflect damage back to the attackers, but does not prevent it. So if a warrior is up your ass dropping his one-shot macros and you have overcharge lightning, he can kill himself if he's not careful. It may seem overpowered, but there's a simple solution, don't go balls to the walls when this CD is active. It would be a 3 min or so CD.

    Phase shift is the most defensive CD choice, it functions like ice block, but a bit different too. The shaman shifts plane of existence and blah blah, like the old talent. Except instead of reducing damage taken by 30% while stunned like it use to, it makes you unattackable for 8 seconds. unlike ice block though the shaman can move, but he also can't be healed while phase shifted. This too would e a 3 min CD.

    Repulsion totem was something that was suppose to be implemented, i think, and for some reason or another was scrapped. Basiccly it would drop a totem that would pulse and aoe knock-back every second for 10 seconds. The totem itself would have a 30 sec CD though, since totems can be targeted and destroyed. This option would be good for resto or elemental shamans because it would keep melee attackers at bay and give them some free cast time.

    Like I said, each offers a good survival tool with a different functionality depending on what you prefer. Agressive, Defensive, or frequent CD. The next tool I think Dps shamans need is an execute. Again, it seems like everyone these days is getting them and While I can only speak for pvp, I'm sure an execute would be a welcomed addition to pve. I'm sure I'm not the only shaman who has experienced the frustration of getting someone down to 10% and not being able to do a thing while he heals back up because all your abilities are on CD. If only we had one more, low health finisher. Also to add a bit of variety I think that the execute should be earth based. now, I didn't play any of the RTS warcrafts so sue me if its not based on a real spell from there. The spell I would give them would be called Earth tomb.

    Earth tomb would function like any other execute and that would be fine for most people, but I think that our class could use a little flair. So here goes my take on a new execute. First of all, the animation would be hurling several boulders at the enemy then incapacitate them for 3 seconds. hitting the boulders with an earth shock would then deal massive damage if the target was under 30% health. Similar to Thrall smashing the boulders in the Wrathgate questline. Lets make shamans look like bad ass masters of the elements instead of just sparky pyromaniacs.

    Lastly would be a new CC but with shaman flair too it. Hex was all good, but its just a rehashed polymorph. Anyone remember the time lost controllers in Sethekk halls? Well basically these birds had an ability called Charming totem. I think shamans need another CC, and I think this is the one for them. It would summon a totem that would basically force the target to become a pet of the shaman and attack his target (or heal the shaman) with the classes basic attacks (it wouldn't waste your CDs or anything unfair like that) The Charming totem would have a 45 Sec CD, like Hex and last the standard 8 sec pvp duration. Here's the catch, its not dispellable, but the totem can be destroyed by anyone, so it can be disruptive, but countered by anyone with half a brain. Most classes have a spamable CD that they can recast over and over and switch targets on. Shamans have 1, count em 1 hex every 45 seconds. giving them a separate CD would add some interesting choices for game play. for example, in 3s, do you try to cc 2 guys and go on a third, or do you save them and spread them out.


    Anyway, thats just what I personally would want shamans to get for the next expansion.
    Last edited by Roangut; 2013-02-20 at 06:24 AM.

  18. #178
    there are some good and bad things here but i think elemental shamans need some changes overall atm,,

  19. #179
    I'm going to read this whole thread after I post my ideas here, but:
    QOL/spell change ideas
    1) Unleash weapon becomes Enhance only
    It pretty much already is due to not being useful for Ele except as an opener. I don't know if it's good for Resto. But it's always felt like this spell only really works with Enhance, so just make it Enh only and give us the Unleashed Fury effects and replace that talent with something more attractive to Ele/Resto.

    2) Lava Burst no longer auto-crits, but does much higher regular damage. Lava Burst crits now refresh Flame Shock. Flame Shock criticals proc Lava Surge (GC said it, so it will probably be done anyway).
    Instead of LvB being an auto-crit but kind of weak ability, and instead of making its damage scale with crit, let's just buff its damage, give it normal crit chances, and then make it so LvB crits do something useful so you don't really have to worry about refreshing FS unless you have terrible RNG.

    3) All shocks taken off shared cooldowns.
    It just makes sense at this point. The only thing that hits hard enough to make it seem possibly OP is Fulmination and honestly, that doesn't justify it. It's not like you can do a 7 Fulmination every 6 seconds and it would give a little more room for mistakes in PVP as Enh/Ele. I think they're already tougher to play in PVP than most other specs out there.

    4) CL glyph baked into the spell for Ele.
    I know it's easy to reglyph now, but I find it annoying and stupid that you have to plan ahead for ONLY 3 target cleaving or 4+ and glyph for it. I think CL's current glyph is like the old FS glyph: too useful, practically mandatory even though <100% of fights will benefit from it.

    5) Fire Nova spreads Flame Shock for Enh + MW charges add extra jumps to CL.
    The first part reduces ramp-up for Enh AOE. The second part makes it so we can spend MW on a pure DPS option in AOE situations.

    6) Searing totem/searing flames removed from the game, damage benefits rolled into other core abilities for Enh/Ele.
    For Ele, I think this would just require a numbers adjustment. For Enh I think the specific change is to make FT imbue put searing flames up. Graphically I think it could even be achieved by making our offhand get hotter until at 5 stacks it's on fire, like embers for Destro locks.

    Big new expansion change/feature that would be fun, but will never happen
    A 4th spec focused around tanking. Not totally sure what I would call it. The first idea I get behind it is Stone Sentinel. It would be a melee tank that uses Primal Strike and a few other elemental damage melee abilities. It would use Rockbiter weapon imbue and Water Shield. It would gear with Int/Spi mail and caster weapons/shields. This is mostly to fit the flavor of the class. I haven't fully worked out the ideas behind it, but it's supposed to be kind of like a mixture between other RPGs' ideas of a Mage-Knight, and WOW's various "Earthwarder" type mobs they've had in the game since vanilla WOW. They've already played up our earth skills as defensive/sturdy/tank-oriented, so it would be fun as hell to have a Shaman tank spec added.

  20. #180
    The Patient Trollfat's Avatar
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    Totemic projection baseline.
    Totemic restoration baseline. No longer works with grounding totem, and totemic recall will not trigger the effect.
    Ghost wolf glyph baseline.
    Buff Reincarnation to 100% health. Or keep 20% health but lower CD to 10 minutes.
    Earthquake is now channeled and has a 20% chance to knockdown.
    Water Walking can now be cast while mounted.

    New minor glyphs:
    Glyph of the windwalker: Windfury weapon procs now cause you to levitate briefly.
    Glyph of totemic stature: Your totems are now three times larger.
    Glyph of blood lightning: Extra lightning bolts gained from elemental overload or echo of the elements are now red.
    Glyph of fulmination: Your fulmination now brings down a lightning strike upon your target.
    Glyph of the totemic warrior: Your weapon(s) take(s) on the appearance of a totem. (similar to transmog)
    Glyph of imbues: Your flametongue, frostbrand, windfury, and rockbiter imbues now overlap your current weapon enchantment.
    Glyph of the dummy totem: Place up to four unempowered totems that last for 5 minutes.
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