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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    Except for anyone who uses a cell phone to call them.

    Which is everyone. I find it extremely hard to believe that anyone playing anything on a high-speed internet connection is using anything but a cell phone to make any calls nowadays.

    You guys love to bitch, don't you?
    Even when i worked as a cellphone tech i didn't have a cell phone. Why? I never needed one. I lived less than 2 miles from work and could walk home if need be. Ive only ever had a land line, and many people I know have both. Maybe crawl off your elitist high horse and realize the world exists past your own face.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    You, sir, make a lot of sense. Not only was the vast majority of subscriptions lost since changing the telephone service, it was also only people who were informed and furious about it.

    This place should be ranamed subforum for hyperbole, gnashing theeth and great tips for running a successful business by economic lumnaries only. And no, Mr. 23 posts, you are not the main offender, a moderator and people with thousands of posts are.
    While it might not be the root reason it certainly fits well into their pattern of poor choices and ideas that damn near make it seem like they dont want a happy player base.
    Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"
    "Not everything on the internet is true." -- Abraham Lincoln
    Good is the enemy of great.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by thevoicefromwithin View Post
    This place should be ranamed subforum for hyperbole, gnashing theeth and great tips for running a successful business by economic lumnaries only. And no, Mr. 23 posts, you are not the main offender, a moderator and people with thousands of posts are.
    If you have issues with moderation please PM Sunshine with links to specific examples of the bad behavior. Making posts about "some moderator" doing bad things is futile. Also, if you think forums are a place where everyone has to be 100% in favor of everything all the time you are sorely mistaken. People are allowed to be disappointing or to not like things. There is a difference between bashing and expressing unhappiness.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Organoth View Post
    You are missing the point that is being made. You do NOT get free calls to a toll-free number if you are calling from a cell phone. Being an 800 number only affect people with land lines and they are quickly becoming the minority customer. Less then 2/3rd of the US even has a landline phone as of 2011 and that number is even smaller for the gamer demographic of young adults. That number continues to drop every year.

    Also, who in the world is calling Bioware support that often that their minutes even matter? I have never had to call customer support for any game I have ever played. People are complaining about this for no other reason then they want to complain about something. Being bad about your account security and getting your account compromised is about the only reason why you would ever need to call their support line. If that happens why should Bioware have to pay for your phone call?
    so you're saying you're willing to cover the costs of the people who do incur them?

    or are you just blindly defending something that isn't the industry standard

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 07:11 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    If you have issues with moderation please PM Sunshine with links to specific examples of the bad behavior. Making posts about "some moderator" doing bad things is futile. Also, if you think forums are a place where everyone has to be 100% in favor of everything all the time you are sorely mistaken. People are allowed to be disappointing or to not like things. There is a difference between bashing and expressing unhappiness.
    woah now, let's not just blatantly lie. saying something that isn't against the rules, but that a mod doesn't like, can get you banned.

    when they can't make up shit they just say use spamming, flaming or trolling even though those things have VERY specific definitions, they'll still use them just to shut you up. i'm a prime example. been banned about 20 times and i can't remember one time where i wasn't banned just for hurting a mod's feelings after one of you guys said something that was just stupid as fuck

    but what you said is just a complete fucking lie. you guys do not follow your own rules.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusherO0 View Post
    I did not write that, so please do not fucking misquote me. If you have an issue with something I stated, quote it and respond. I've never called anyone a "BioWare slave" or claimed anyone was "white knighting". Change that now please. I don't like it when others put words in my mouth (posts) that aren't mine.
    Hi Edgecrusher... I'm very sorry that this happened and it was in no way my intention to do so. I just came back onto the forum today, had a first contact with Mr. Scrapbot and I'm still puzzled how offended some people got over it. Had I continue to write in this thread, ignoring you or ignored a pm I could understand it but like this... however... I made a mistake, I hope you can accept my apology.

    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    How is that not a bannable offense?
    Its probably one of the most offensive and abusive things you can do to someone because other people will read what he quoted and believe that you said it.
    over.the.top

    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    The infraction should stand. I always re-read what I post, he should have done the same. It's not difficult to proofread before you hit "Post". It's not like he couldn't have taken care of it in the 7+ hours before Edge even saw it.

    As far as reporting harsh treatment from a mod, usually you can appeal your infraction. I have and gotten my infraction and ban reversed. It only happened once, but the infraction was bullshit from a mod with a grudge.
    The infraction can stand... however making this mistake after 15 years of regulary posting in varies forums for varies games for the very first time and getting a infraction without any warning seems kinda over the top. There was no indication that it was intentionally, however only one user actually registered it and gave me some slack there.

    Ps: and yes I usually re-read before posting... but "thx" for the advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    But who knows for sure? Country laws don't automatically let you get away with things for oopsies. Same principle. Just to be clear this isn't a comment on moderation, but a response to a philisophical question. Granted this is OT and we can get back to the fact that not having a 1 800 number as a game with numerous services across several countries is pretty tacky.
    There is a saying for it... shooting a flie with a gun.

    As for your previous post regarding me defending the company and not being aware of other peoples problems... I don't get what's so hard to understand. If I would try to call their customer service it would cost me more than 10 dollars... just for a phone call and therefor, if I really care, I better invest the 10 dollars to get the subscription, have full access and try to solve my problem on the forums/ ingame customer support because under the line... waisting your money on a phone call leaves you most likely with nothing while spending the same 10 bucks on the game leaves you at least with full access. You can twist and turn it around all you like... .

    I personally don't agree with a "customer support" being charged for (though SOE did the exact same) as it should be free because it's not your fault that you encounter a bug/ can't play and therefor the company offering the game should take whatever costs they have due to this onto them and not on the players.

    I can't make it any more clear....

    Quote Originally Posted by notorious98 View Post
    You can't just assume it's that way. Many people won't. I've had my posts altered by others in the past and many people won't bother looking at my original post to see if that's truly what I said. Instead they'll take it at face value because it was quoted. It gives people the false impression that you believe something that you don't and definitely can stir up trouble.
    Whenever someone misquoted me.. a quick PM was much more effective than derailing a thread for absolutely no reason as it was mistake on my part and NOT intentionally.... . I hope you can stop "assuming" it now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamos77 View Post
    Ah I completely agree but the quote wasn't altered as such. He quoted 4 times in one post and swapped one name for the other. It makes no sense to do that to create mischief. Stirring trouble surely involves changing the wording or meaning of a quote...not quoting the original author word for word and the author above but switching the names around. He was having a pop at both people and made an error with the copy/paste.

    Regardless it's his battle to fight or not. I just took exception to punishing what to me is logically an innocent error. I very much doubt you'll find anyone on this forum who now feels it was intentional. It just makes no sense in this particular case if you stop and think about it imo.

    Anyway, moving on
    Thanks a lot is all I can say. Re-reading the last page was like looking into a civil war fight report. However it seems that this is happening more and more often nowadays. Revan robe didn't look like they advertised... people got all angry about and suddenly it was more important to some people than anything else in the world. I really can't understand it just as I can't understand how they fixed these armor skins but neglected to fix the bug with the cartel unlocks which is a serious issue. Bioware and "some" people "fight" on the exact same "level". There is no "in between".. either you are with them or against it, no matter if you personally agree with a lot of critic brought up but some people really think only in black and white which is, given my country of birth, something seriously annoying.
    Last edited by Psychlon; 2013-01-10 at 01:50 PM.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    over.the.top
    I agree. Over the top is a good movie.
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by hk-51 View Post
    I agree. Over the top is a good movie.
    And we were just talking about the 80s last night! Damn you...I think I might have to load up a bunch of movies this weekend while I try and smash out the last 5 levels to 60.

  8. #68
    We should get back on the topic of them changing the number to not being toll free. Like I said if you have issues with moderation you need to PM Sunshine about. If you have an issue with an infraction you received you can PM any mod in that forum about it or a Super Mod to appeal it. So let's not have anymore off-topic stuff

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    If you have issues with moderation
    I don't have an issue with moderation, I have an issue with poster who also happens to be moderator Edgecrusher being among a handful of people sounding like a five-year-old missing his favorite toy and not contributing to a meaningful discussion. I had hoped moderators would hold themselves to higher standards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    please PM Sunshine
    No. Thanks. a) no issue with moderation per se. b) Sunshine is among the friends listed in Edgecrusher's profile. c) I don't feel at all any action is warranted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlee View Post
    There is a difference between bashing and expressing unhappiness.
    No kidding. Still gems like

    Quote Originally Posted by Kittyvicious View Post
    Fuck them, fuck them all. They are god awful people.
    are somewhat dubious expressions of unhappiness. If someone raging about video game developers daring to include a f2p mode in their game but failing to deliver on a silver platter all the options the poster expected to be included in said f2p makes Ahmadinejad talking about Israel look like a moderate in comparison, a reality check might be in order. If said poster often quickly ad hominems anybody daring to disagree, the SWTOR forums aren't exactly becoming a more inviting place.

    So in summary while I think there are some posters beyond redemption - those shall remain unnamed - the two guys mentioned/quoted should just take a deep breath and ask themselves if their behaviour over the last few days contributed to or stifled discussion.

    edit: last off-topic from me; sorry

  10. #70

    How to call them for free anyway.

    At this point in the thread, constructive workarounds sound faintly off topic but nevertheless, in case anyone is bravely hoping for one: get a free Google Voice account and you can use it to call land lines in the US and Canada - including the SWTOR support number - for free. It's not free in Europe, but internetcalls.com supposedly is. I haven't used them but others speak well of them.

    I won't get into the philosophical arguments behind customer support on toll lines, but if you have a free way to call them and others have been scared off, your call will probably be answered quicker.

    Still experimenting...

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Botter View Post
    Even when i worked as a cellphone tech i didn't have a cell phone. Why? I never needed one. I lived less than 2 miles from work and could walk home if need be. Ive only ever had a land line, and many people I know have both. Maybe crawl off your elitist high horse and realize the world exists past your own face.
    OK man, there was no elitism there, but nice try.

    The point was that it's not a big deal to the majority of people, it's a topic brought up that probably 95% of all players never have and never will encounter anyways, and people are blowing it up as some huge deal on the mighty internet.

    I'm like someone posted above. The NES came out when I was 5. I got one. I have owned, and played the bajeezus out of, not only just about every major console but also my PC since that. I've never had the need to contact customer service about an issue with any game, and (I'm guessing) most or nearly all of the posters on this board have never needed to do that either.

    While I'm sure they receive a constant volume of callers, the percentage to actual players of the game is undoubtedly quite miniscule. Certainly, the amount of people posting in this thread vs. the amount of people who have actually had to contact SWTOR customer service via phone is slim, possibly none.

  12. #72
    It is funny seeing people justify this by saying, they need to make money when they have not made new Tier gear in the last 3 tiers. Only a recolor. And they have added a cash shop where I alone know people who have spent 100s on, and i would gather many many more have done the same. There are many ways they are making money while putting in very little development time in.
    Also I for one do not have a cell phone and I have highspeed internet. Not everyone has a cellphone, and it is funny how people just assume everyone does. i am sorry I cannot afford to pay for one right now. Some of us are hit by the ecconomy more then others, and having the internet is a lot more useful then having a phone on me where ever I go.
    So yeah for some of us it is not a huge deal, but it is yet another DBag move for a game that is on the edge of total colapse if they don't treat their player base better.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadsop View Post
    OK man, there was no elitism there, but nice try.

    The point was that it's not a big deal to the majority of people, it's a topic brought up that probably 95% of all players never have and never will encounter anyways, and people are blowing it up as some huge deal on the mighty internet.

    I'm like someone posted above. The NES came out when I was 5. I got one. I have owned, and played the bajeezus out of, not only just about every major console but also my PC since that. I've never had the need to contact customer service about an issue with any game, and (I'm guessing) most or nearly all of the posters on this board have never needed to do that either.

    While I'm sure they receive a constant volume of callers, the percentage to actual players of the game is undoubtedly quite miniscule. Certainly, the amount of people posting in this thread vs. the amount of people who have actually had to contact SWTOR customer service via phone is slim, possibly none.
    You make the assumption that the majority of people have unlimited talk plans with their cell phones. Guess what. I'm going to assume that they don't. Since we're both basing our view on our extremely limited knowledge of facts (you know, purely on the people that we know), you're going to have to show me some solid evidence that the majority of people won't have to spend their money or their minutes in order to contact this company's customer service.

    As for needing to contact customer service, I had to contact EA twice. Before the game was even officially released because Origin is a piece of shit. For reference, I pre-ordered two copies (one for me, one for my wife). About a week before early access, I checked my account and, lo and behold, there was only 1 pre-order along with only 1 pre-order charge on my bank account. So my wife pre-ordered a third copy. Turns out, we wound up with 3 copies. Their initial solution? To dispute the charge with my bank. I wasn't having it so my wife called them. After about 2 hours of being on the line with the CS rep, they finally wiped the 3rd order and refunded our money. So quit making assumptions because, once again, you're basing it completely on your own experience which, in the grand scheme of things, amounts to shit.

  14. #74
    Doesn't really bother me but I understand people who are bothered by it.

    It's not really an issue of cell phone vs landline. Mobiles are pretty quickly eclipsing landlines but that doesn't mean that most people don't use them. Just because something is on the way to being obsolete doesn't mean we need to drop support for it before that point. There are work from home jobs that REQUIRE a landline. When I swapped careers to something better I got rid of my landline, and to be honest I'd get rid of my mobile too but I need it for my job or rather for making my job go more smoothly.

    Also landlines tend to be less expensive than mobiles. I could get a landline through Verizon for about $24~ per month, while the cheapest local option for a mobile phone with decent coverage is $35/mo advertised but with all sorts of taxes and fees that bring it up over $40.

    It seems completely random that the number isn't toll free anymore, there isn't really any reason for it except for maybe EXTREME penny pinching.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychlon View Post
    The infraction can stand... however making this mistake after 15 years of regulary posting in varies forums for varies games for the very first time and getting a infraction without any warning seems kinda over the top. There was no indication that it was intentionally, however only one user actually registered it and gave me some slack there.

    Ps: and yes I usually re-read before posting... but "thx" for the advice.

    Whenever someone misquoted me.. a quick PM was much more effective than derailing a thread for absolutely no reason as it was mistake on my part and NOT intentionally.... . I hope you can stop "assuming" it now.
    I wasn't assuming anything. I'm merely opening up the discussion from the other side of the coin. But why would I bother attempting to show you the other side of the coin? You're completely incapable of understanding the other side because you're blindly devoted to whatever cause you're championing. Usually you proofread? I'm guessing that you don't. If you did, perhaps you'd think twice about yammering on about the insane bullshit you ramble on and on about. We get it, you love TOR to the point that you'd sacrifice your first born in order to get another reskinned armor. Perhaps one day you'll be enlightened enough to be able to objectively observe something like this, but as of now, you're not. You're just the guy on the inside completely incapable of understanding what it's like to be the guy on the outside.

  16. #76
    What's with all the unlimited minutes talk? It makes no difference. If you don't have unlimited minutes then you're in the same boat whether it's a toll free number or a regular number, like they've switched to. A toll free number still uses your minutes, just like a regular call will. For people with cell phones this is a non issue since Cell phones don't get charged for long distance. As for Land Lines, I'm not entirely sure since I haven't had one since around 2000 but do they even charge long distance calls anymore? I can't speak for the International numbers but a 312 number isn't going to be charged any extra for calling it beyond long distance calls and even if you do get charged extra for long distance calls using Skype or Google Voice can get you around that.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasffion View Post
    What's with all the unlimited minutes talk? It makes no difference. If you don't have unlimited minutes then you're in the same boat whether it's a toll free number or a regular number, like they've switched to. A toll free number still uses your minutes, just like a regular call will. For people with cell phones this is a non issue since Cell phones don't get charged for long distance. As for Land Lines, I'm not entirely sure since I haven't had one since around 2000 but do they even charge long distance calls anymore? I can't speak for the International numbers but a 312 number isn't going to be charged any extra for calling it beyond long distance calls and even if you do get charged extra for long distance calls using Skype or Google Voice can get you around that.
    For some reason they do. I'm not sure if they still charge you an extra monthly fee for having long distance service, but they do still charge for making long distance calls. Seems silly, but they do it.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    For some reason they do. I'm not sure if they still charge you an extra monthly fee for having long distance service, but they do still charge for making long distance calls. Seems silly, but they do it.
    Ok, thanks for the info, but it can still be gotten around by using Free VIOP services.

    Not that I agree with what they've done but I don't see any point to bitching about it.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Dasffion View Post
    Not that I agree with what they've done but I don't see any point to bitching about it.
    Principle mainly, but also because it's reinforcing the notion that BioWare is looking to squeeze money out any way they can (including removing the toll free number service to cut costs) and doesn't much care for players (specifically non-subscribers). They're the only major MMO that doesn't have a toll-free support line from my searches. Even a number of smaller MMO's maintain a toll free support line.

  20. #80
    From the info I found in about 2 minutes of searching online, a fairly reputable (looking) website says that the cost of offering a Toll-Free service on calls is somewhere between $.02 and $.08 per minute.

    That seems small to me, especially if it sways toward the $.02 side.

    However, if people really DO have to sit on hold for an hour (or more) per call, I can see where this could start to get expensive.

    Maybe it is a cheapskate penny-pinching thing.

    Maybe they have eliminated too many call-answerers on the Customer Service side of things that their hold times went up too high and now their phone bill is out of control... could be.

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