High Elves: Is it really what the player base wants?

[Lemonpartyfan]

There would be a backlash only if the Horde got something new and shiny. You'd simply wnat to balance the Alliance HElf with a Horde version of an Alliance race. The Highborne NElfs seem to offer the least contrived mechanic of presenting the Horde with an Alliance race.

You'd simply need to ascertain what work do you want to put in for these new races. New voices? HElfs already use NElf voices. Classes? Should Horde Highborn get the druid class? Animations? Special animations or copied? Start areas? Dedicated or existing?

EJL

I don't see where you are getting this Highborne Night Elf stuff ... Highborne night elves do not exist... Highbornes = High Elves....

[Talen]

I don't see where you are getting this Highborne Night Elf stuff ... Highborne night elves do not exist... Highbornes = High Elves....

You ARE aware of the lore behind Night Elf mages, are you not?

EJL

[Amonra]

I don't see where you are getting this Highborne Night Elf stuff ... Highborne night elves do not exist... Highbornes = High Elves....

What?? I mean, the Shren'dalar?? Those are highborne night elves, you know. Or is this just a wank about the naming??

[Amorise]

High Elves would work but the problem is just that they're too similar to Blood Elves.

I'd rather they work on a newer race or add sub races to the old classes like Mag'har. Taunka, Forest Troll (Riventusk are with the Horde,) Wildhammer, etc.

[Lemonpartyfan]

What?? I mean, the Shren'dalar?? Those are highborne night elves, you know. Or is this just a wank about the naming??

It is a wank about the naming. The Highborne, literally are the High Elves.

You ARE aware of the lore behind Night Elf mages, are you not?


EJL

They are still Night Elves. Still a sect of Night Elves.

[Talen]

They are still Night Elves. Still a sect of Night Elves.

So, you don't know.

The Highborne are the Nobles of the old Night Elf Empire. Following a series of unfortunate events, many found themselves exiled to the Eastern Kingdoms where they became High Elves. Another batch of Highborne, however, survived in the city now known as Dire Maul. These recently left and rejoined their kin in Darnassus.

My little addition is to postulate a disagreement - some didn't want to seek out the Darnassian Night Elves and instead opted to seek out their Highborne kin, the High Elves, instead. In this way, the Horde get Night Elfs to offset the Allaince getting Blood/High Elfs. Everyone is happy because everyone gets something equivalent to the other - whether they like what they got is another question. Even Blizzard can end up happy because the change necessary is minimal.

EJL

[Lemonpartyfan]

So, you don't know.

The Highborne are the Nobles of the old Night Elf Empire. Following a series of unfortunate events, many found themselves exiled to the Eastern Kingdoms where they became High Elves. Another batch of Highborne, however, survived in the city now known as Dire Maul. These recently left and rejoined their kin in Darnassus.

My little addition is to postulate a disagreement - some didn't want to seek out the Darnassian Night Elves and instead opted to seek out their Highborne kin, the High Elves, instead. In this way, the Horde get Night Elfs to offset the Allaince getting Blood/High Elfs. Everyone is happy because everyone gets something equivalent to the other - whether they like what they got is another question. Even Blizzard can end up happy because the change necessary is minimal.

EJL

Yes I do know. Nothing in lore at all would suggest that type of decision (Night Elves joining Horde) in any way at all. You also have a misconception on what equality means. Whats ironic is your own choice of words, and asking about Night Elf mages disproves your point and possibility of them joining the Horde....

[Amonra]

It is a wank about the naming. The Highborne, literally are the High Elves.

Then you are just being unnecessarily contentious. Yes, the high elves are technically the highborne (more specifically their descendants) but we have a more specific terms to refer to them, High Elves, highborne is used to specifically refer to highborne night elves, since they are part of the original group.

It is just so unnecessary to wank over this, it's like the whole "tomate is a vegetable" discussion.

[Lemonpartyfan]

Then you are just being unnecessarily contentious. Yes, the high elves are technically the highborne (more specifically their descendants) but we have a more specific terms to refer to them, High Elves, highborne is used to specifically refer to highborne night elves, since they are part of the original group.

It is just so unnecessary to wank over this, it's like the whole "tomate is a vegetable" discussion.

Well, not really. Because Highborne NIGHT ELVES, as still Night Elves....

[Amonra]

Well, not really. Because Highborne NIGHT ELVES, as still Night Elves....

But then why use the same term to refer to two different races?? It's just convoluted.

[mistuhbull]

Well, not really. Because Highborne NIGHT ELVES, as still Night Elves....

And British people are still people, doesn't magically make British incorrect

[Talen]

Yes I do know. Nothing in lore at all would suggest that type of decision (Night Elves joining Horde) in any way at all.

The Night Elfs of Dire Maul would not be too influence by the events that would prevent Darnassian Night Elves joining the Horde.

You also have a misconception on what equality means.

Both sides get the same thing. In this case, both factions end up with one of the other sides races.

Whats ironic is your own choice of words, and asking about Night Elf mages disproves your point and possibility of them joining the Horde....

Why would the Highborne of Dire Maul NOT seek out their Highborn kin now called the High Elves? Why would they have some grievance against the Horde that would prevent or inhibit their joining up? The Highborne of Dire Maul are Night Elves, but they owe no fealty towards Darnassus. Conversely, the High Elves are the descendents of their own kind. Highborne who were exiled from Darnassus.

You seem to be arguing that Night Elfs from Dire Maul would never ally with the Horde because , as Night Elves, they would follow the same relationships as those in Darnassus.

EJL

[Lemonpartyfan]

And British people are still people, doesn't magically make British incorrect

I'm sorry, i don't fully understand your meaning here.

But then why use the same term to refer to two different races?? It's just convoluted.

You're right, it is. This is why I am annoyed at "Highborne Night Elf" even being used at all. Its a bit silly. The Shen'Dralar sect of Night Elves has allied itself with Darn. This is why we have Night Elf mages.

---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 01:00 AM ----------

Both sides get the same thing. In this case, both factions end up with one of the other sides races.

EJL

This is not equality. In no way shape oor form are the High Elves a Horde faction. So taking Night Elves, or any sect of Night Elves away from the Alliance wouldn't be equality.

Why would the Highborne of Dire Maul NOT seek out their Highborn kin now called the High Elves? Why would they have some grievance against the Horde that would prevent or inhibit their joining up? The Highborne of Dire Maul are Night Elves, but they owe no fealty towards Darnassus. Conversely, the High Elves are the descendents of their own kind. Highborne who were exiled from Darnassus.

There have been quests in game that disprove this. They are part of Darnassus. High Elves are still Alliance. So this doesn't really make sense anyway.

You seem to be arguing that Night Elfs from Dire Maul would never ally with the Horde because , as Night Elves, they would follow the same relationships as those in Darnassus.

They have. This is in the game. This is why we have Night Elf Mages.

[Didactic]

So, you don't know.

The Highborne are the Nobles of the old Night Elf Empire. Following a series of unfortunate events, many found themselves exiled to the Eastern Kingdoms where they became High Elves. Another batch of Highborne, however, survived in the city now known as Dire Maul. These recently left and rejoined their kin in Darnassus.

My little addition is to postulate a disagreement - some didn't want to seek out the Darnassian Night Elves and instead opted to seek out their Highborne kin, the High Elves, instead. In this way, the Horde get Night Elfs to offset the Allaince getting Blood/High Elfs. Everyone is happy because everyone gets something equivalent to the other - whether they like what they got is another question. Even Blizzard can end up happy because the change necessary is minimal.

EJL

Or how about just give the Alliance High Elves because they're an Alliance race? Horde can have Ogres or some other foolishness.

[D-Balthalzar]

I do, but not to play one. (Favourite race is Dwarves, by far).

I do for two reasons;

1) The Alliance is not, and has never felt, complete without them. Seriously. They may be fickle, they may be arses. they may be the most despicable and independent race going, but they were an Alliance race. They were there almost from the very first incarnation of the Alliance. When someone says 'Alliance' to me, in the context of WoW, I think of Human, Dwarves and High Elves.

Imagine this; WoW started with Taurens in the Alliance. Blizzard gave the most lore abiding excuse going, and there was apparently no going back. Horde players would be pissed, no? And I'd understand why; Tauren are fundamental to the Horde in the same way the High Elves (atleast in my opinion) are to the Alliance. Both are key and part of the 'trio' races that are quintessential to the depiction of the Alliance.

And 2), if Blizzard is insisting on developing and devoting so much lore to the High Elves, we, the player base, may as well see some of that first hand. I think it's boarding on pathetic now that High Elves have been continually updated in every expansion (TBC - Allerian Hold, Wrath - Silver Convent & new/updated Sunwell lore during the sword quest, , Cata - Continued Silver Convent update, insight in their political disposition regarding Quel'thalas and MoP - continued presence through the Kirin Tor quests), while other playable races (Gnomes, Worgen, Draenei) are woefully neglected.

Seriously, if they're gunna get that much attention, then Blizzard might as well/should add them as playable.

Imagine if the counterpart for the Horde version was that Ogres continually received update after update. They lead a significant force in Northerend for the Horde, and later this transgressed through each and every expansion, and they took precedent for lore development over other playable races (Tauren, Goblin & Troll). You'd be pissed, right?

[Talen]

Or how about just give the Alliance High Elves because they're an Alliance race? Horde can have Ogres or some other foolishness.

Which misses the point that you'd be giving the Alliance a rehashed race and the Horde a brand new one.

You give one side a brand new arce, they both get brand new races.
You want to give one side a rehashed race? The other side needs to get a rehashed race.

EJL

[Skytotem]

High Elves are boring, they contribute nothing new, have no unique architecture, no interesting culture, etc...

[Talen]

I'm sorry, i don't fully understand your meaning here.

That you are ascribing to one group of people, the attributes, attitudes, belivefs, culture of another simply because they are the same race.

You're right, it is. This is why I am annoyed at "Highborne Night Elf" even being used at all. Its a bit silly. The Shen'Dralar sect of Night Elves has allied itself with Darn. This is why we have Night Elf mages.

Not all of them did. Not all of them need have done so.

This is not equality. In no way shape oor form are the High Elves a Horde faction. So taking Night Elves, or any sect of Night Elves away from the Alliance wouldn't be equality.

HElfs are BElfs with a blue glow to their eyes. Belfs are a Horde faction. You would be giving the Alliance a race with the same look, langauge, architecture, culture, animations, etc. An old, already existing race. A race that currently is not available to Alliance players. Giving the Horde Night Elves would mean the Horde too would be getting an old already existing race to play and the idea that Highborne Night Elfs from Dire Maul, Night Elfs who have no link with or loyalty to Darnassus beyond race and also have a link to the Blood Elves might seek out both factions isn't unreasonable.

There have been quests in game that disprove this. They are part of Darnassus. High Elves are still Alliance. So this doesn't really make sense anyway.

Only because you are trying to argue that an addition to the existing lore can't be done. If Blizzard wanted to give the Horde Night Elfs, and then say "Not all the Highborne from Dire Maul went to Darnassus; some went to seek out the Blood Elfs instead" is there anythign in existing lore to contradict that? No. You could even bring back Tarsis Kir-Moldir as the leader and give him a suitable backstory.

Rescued by a BElf scout party, he returned to DM to find the city in disarray and preparing to sned an emissray to Darnassus. He argued unsuccessfully to join their strength with that of their Highborne kin, the Blood Elves but did manage to recruit a sizeable contingent from those who disliked the idea of seeking help from the hippies, and relocated to Silvermoon.

They have. This is in the game. This is why we have Night Elf Mages.

You seem to be operating under the belief that lore can't be added to the game, and that the lore we have is complete.

EJL

[D-Balthalzar]

Which misses the point that you'd be giving the Alliance a rehashed race and the Horde a brand new one.

You give one side a brand new arce, they both get brand new races.
You want to give one side a rehashed race? The other side needs to get a rehashed race.

EJL

Only 1/3 of the Dark Iron population sided with Moira iirc. Perfect opportunity to add a slightly renegade version of one of the Alliance races and meld it into the Horde.

Or Draenei are always a viable option. Have it so both Blood Elves and Draenei go neutral next expansion (but Alliance Elves have a choice to pick blue eyes or green.)

High Elves are boring, they contribute nothing new, have no unique architecture, no interesting culture, etc...

They do however provide interesting development for other races.

High Elves properly cemented into the Alliance would finally give Blood Elves a personal stake into sticking with the Horde. Right now, there's logical reasons why they're still there, and gameplay reasons, but nothing else. There's nothing that inherently makes them or the players feel a connection to the Horde. This would provide that; a direct opposition to their authority that is allied with their enemy.

[Mandible]

But then why use the same term to refer to two different races?? It's just convoluted.

They aren´t defining two different races by using those terms. Its a definition of two different cultures within the entire night elven society where the High borne are the ruling caste. Just look at how India is divided in a caste system and what each are called - doesn´t mean others won´t call everyone of them Indians.