View Poll Results: Which expansion had the best PvP?

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  • Vanilla

    14 14.58%
  • Burning Crusade

    38 39.58%
  • Wrath of the Lich King

    42 43.75%
  • Cataclysm

    14 14.58%
  • Mists of Pandaria

    9 9.38%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    You never played in vanilla or BC.

    No wonder there are so many votes for shitty seasons... I wish I could add a requirement that people link their vanilla PvP feat of strength before being allowed to vote -.-
    Did my R12 grind in Vanilla, and voted for Vanilla/TBC as best years. They were both great, and for different reasons:

    Vanilla was fun because of the newness of the game. Everything was disorganized and yet epic at the same time. Sure, it was mostly rock/paper/scissors, but it worked and was debatably more balanced than what we have now. Rogs would slaughter cloth, but get stomped by warriors, who get lit up by cloth (unless there's a hpal pocket healing...then it was just roflstomp ALL the things). I'd even say that burst was better than current as well. Epic AB matches with feral/rog engineers ninja-capping nodes. Insane WSG matches that lasted hours, actually porting OUT to get MORE free action potions/health pots and queueing back up. And the day-long AVs with Ivus and tickery back-capping.

    Not to mention, the COMMUNITY in Vanilla was the best part, as you KNEW who you were fighting. Sure, ppl could duck queues, but the majority of the teams you faced when doing your grind to GM/HWL were the same opposite faction teams you knew and loved/hated/respected. There was no anonymity, and you made a name for yourself and your team, good or bad.

    BC was great for other reasons, primarily making "off-specs" viable in most levels of play. Sure, you had the perennial classes/specs that fared well, but TBC allowed for some creative use of class abilities/specs to be successful. And what's more, is that it did so without relying on utter homogenation to do so. CC or interrupts for paladins? Nah, bro you got a stun. Interrupt/silence/stun on warriors? Better be good at stance dancing to keep on your target and either slap on a shield for bash or swap zerk for pummel. Feral interrupt? Bear charge. The lack of homogeneity kept a certain skill cap that has since been watered down and all but disappeared. While it can be said that arena was the "beginning of the end" in terms of balancing, since it tried to make this game something it cannot/should not be, it was also some of the most fun I've had in a PVP environment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    People liked Vanilla and BC because you could still keyboard turn and be a glad. Face it, this game gets better every expansion because the game gets faster and more competitive. The bar is always raised.
    I can't tell if you're serious. Yes, in Vanilla your rank was largely a factor of TIME, but that's not to say that 1) there were glad titles, 2) the people that grinded to R10+ were bad players who learned nothing along the way, or 3) that the game was inherently worse than it is now. The GAME as a WHOLE may get better or more refined over the years, but I think anyone would say that the current state of burst macro spam2ded is hardly considered skilled play. Games may be faster now, but that's almost entirely due to the insane state of burst (healing AND damage), not the inherent skill of the playerbase.
    Last edited by Nairobi; 2013-01-09 at 08:23 PM.
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  2. #22
    Old God apepi's Avatar
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    Wrath was not that bad, I don't rember getting 2 or 3 shot in wrath. Though mop is looking better the longer it gets.

    I remember the heals were much more balanced back then.
    Last edited by apepi; 2013-01-09 at 08:31 PM.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    People liked Vanilla and BC because you could still keyboard turn and be a glad.
    That doesn't mean much coming from a keyboard turner who never played vanilla or BC and never got glad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Face it, this game gets better every expansion because the game gets faster and more competitive. The bar is always raised.
    Which explains why it was dropped by MLG, right?

    With every new season, the game becomes more about CC and cooldown stacking than actual strategy.

  4. #24
    Stood in the Fire
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    idd would love old wintergrasp back, such epic battles. though it did suck if you was on a one sided server. had so much fun on my hunter in WG though
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    It is back, they upgraded it for 90s. Too bad not many people realize this.

  5. #25
    I really not sure, didn't pvp enough/long time ago so don't recall vanilla pvp to good.

    Gonna say TBC, trough I bet all people renember from that are SL warlocks/warrios + restro druid ehh :P
    One reason for WoW decline I often hear is that its an old game and naturally people get bored with it. But TV is much older and people still watch that. Surely if a thing you once enjoyed keept staying fun, you would still use it?

  6. #26
    Herald of the Titans crakerjack's Avatar
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    Vanilla PvP was fun only because there was no resil and one shotting people was something that was always happening... but TBC was hands down the best xpac because it was the most balanced and there was still class diversity. Wrath was good too, but there were certain comps that just dominated every season and everyone pretty much ran those. Cataclysm ruined PvP and that's why I don't play anymore because the game is awful. But if I had to pick one, it would be TBC... WoW will never see those days again and if you missed out, well that just sucks.

    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  7. #27
    Which is best is a matter of opinion, but there's no question as to which is the worst. BC required PvE gear, resist gear, stormherald, RNG stuns, engineering in arena, games longer than 45 minutes and 75 minute 2s ques. The class / spec balance was only slightly better than Catacylsm class balance in its final season and a half.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    Not to mention, the COMMUNITY in Vanilla was the best part, as you KNEW who you were fighting. Sure, ppl could duck queues, but the majority of the teams you faced when doing your grind to GM/HWL were the same opposite faction teams you knew and loved/hated/respected. There was no anonymity, and you made a name for yourself and your team, good or bad.
    Most people don’t even realize there’s a total lack of community now, but it was a huge part of what made vanilla PvP so much fun despite all its flaws. I can still name most of the opposing R12s from our server and the players who were frequently on their teams, and they were the same people we'd always seen on the front lines at Tarren Mill / Southshore.

    There's no meaningful rivalry or competition now, it's almost always 10 strangers Vs. 10 strangers. You’ll never see someone in a BG, gank them in the outside world, then find a post about it on your realm forums. That used to happen all day every day in vanilla though. Ever since cross-realm BGs it’s just been:
    You killed Random Stranger #1
    You killed Random Stranger #7
    Random Stranger captured the flag
    Team Strangers has won!

    Queue for next random BG…

    It’s no wonder the competitive WoW community has almost completely died, and not surprising at all that WoW is no longer part of MLG.
    Quote Originally Posted by hx9 View Post
    Which is best is a matter of opinion, but there's no question as to which is the worst. BC required PvE gear, resist gear, stormherald, RNG stuns, engineering in arena, games longer than 45 minutes and 75 minute 2s ques. The class / spec balance was only slightly better than Catacylsm class balance in its final season and a half.
    It didn't require any of that unless you wanted to go for R1 on a competitive BG. I played at gladiator rankings in the first few seasons without a single piece of PvE or resist gear on my 2v2 team, and it wasn't a FOTM comp.
    Last edited by konway; 2013-01-09 at 08:59 PM.

  9. #29
    WotLK was by far the best balanced and closest to 1v1, each class had only one counter and the gear wasnt so meaningful, it was alot more about your skill, then more than now and in BC imo

  10. #30
    Old God apepi's Avatar
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    Some people really think bc was more balanced then wotlk?Really? I was a resto druid back then and I admit it was pretty bad.
    Time...line? Time isn't made out of lines. It is made out of circles. That is why clocks are round. ~ Caboose

  11. #31
    Exactly..in BC I remember my warlock one shotting ppl with UA...it def was not balanced

  12. #32
    Herald of the Titans Grimord's Avatar
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    Who the f*** votes TBC for best PvP? Are you insane? I can only imagine it's nostalgia and people that never really played it.

  13. #33
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    That doesn't mean much coming from a keyboard turner who never played vanilla or BC and never got glad.
    Which explains why it was dropped by MLG, right?

    With every new season, the game becomes more about CC and cooldown stacking than actual strategy.
    There's actually a lot of strategy to this game than more people make it out that it doesn't. We're just very accustomed to the way the game is and it doesn't affect us.

    Timing drs, countering cds with enemy cds, deciding when to use cooldowns and communicating with teammates effectively to win is what I consider a good game. I think current WoW has achieved that.

    WoW was dropped from MLG because this game has a very unforgiving pvp system to new players. There's a big difference between 2200 players, 2400 players, 1800 players and 1200 players. Most people see Frost DK's as Overpowered, when 2200 rated players see them as underpowered. Hence, why this game seems unenjoyable to most people because the game seems faceroll at its crust when its a much deeper game at its core. This usually goes for most games as well. Its just that WoW's pvp community has too many low ranked players and not enough 1800 and above players.

    This game isn't about CC and cool down stacking. I know you miss the days when you could build your character anyway you want and RP with him in AV and be a bg hero. But that game is dead because the people that play this game have changed. The old pvpers were a bunch of ex Everquest, Runescape players that thought pvp was about open world killing, progressing your character through ranks and being notorious on your server. Those were the days when people thought massive battles on the internet "was so cool" when now its just another walk in the park.

    Today's pvp community mostly a bunch of young adult 17-23 ex FPS gamers who don't care about anything about the lore of the game, or their character or how many different ways you can build your character. Its been that way since mid wotlk when this game became more centered at appealing to a broader audience by removing all of the stupid crap that old players thought took skill or less homogenized.

    Its comparable to wrestling to the fact that the old wrestlers (1980s-1997) looked like your unemployed uncle in a Halloween costume where as today's wrestlers look like some monster bodybuilder on steroids. That's probably a good analogy on why most Vanilla players think the community used to be better because the old community were a bunch of RP heroes that listen to metal or rock while today's community is dominated by young adults that listen to Dubstep, curse and scream at eachother to assert dominance and play female characters to look e-cute or something.

    Just a theory. I mean watch old Youtube videos and then watch new ones and notice the difference between them. Hell, I even sometimes play on the wotlk arena tourny realm and everything feels so god damm slow and there's much less to worry about. What I did notice is that there's more "filler" talents, abilities that I guess people thought were amazing, but to me they just don't fit in a pvp environment and was more pve oriented.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post

    Today's pvp community mostly a bunch of young adult 17-23 ex FPS gamers who don't care about anything about the lore of the game, or their character or how many different ways you can build your character. Its been that way since mid wotlk when this game became more centered at appealing to a broader audience by removing all of the stupid crap that old players thought took skill or less homogenized.


    Just a theory. I mean watch old Youtube videos and then watch new ones and notice the difference between them. Hell, I even sometimes play on the wotlk arena tourny realm and everything feels so god damm slow and there's much less to worry about. What I did notice is that there's more "filler" talents, abilities that I guess people thought were amazing, but to me they just don't fit in a pvp environment and was more pve oriented.
    " appealing to a broader audience by removing all of the stupid crap that old players thought took skill or less homogenized." They got rid/dumbed down because casuals/bads couldn't cope with it. Perfect example is old vanish, having to watchout for dot ticks etc and then vanish took skill, now you just vanish with no worry at all because you have 3sec immunity from breaking + another 3 secs if specced subterfuge.

    Another example is warrior playstyle, now you just stay in 1 stance and cdstack your way to victory, no shield abilities(defensively playing), you can just pop die by the sword and be defensive while putting out pressure. No stance dancing etc.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan Cailan Ebonheart View Post
    Today's pvp community mostly a bunch of young adult 17-23 ex FPS gamers who don't care about anything about the lore of the game, or their character or how many different ways you can build your character. Its been that way since mid wotlk when this game became more centered at appealing to a broader audience by removing all of the stupid crap that old players thought took skill or less homogenized.
    First you claim Vanilla and BC were crap even though you never played them, and now you're trying to say the "new" arena community is young gamers who used to play first-person shooters? News Flash: that's been the majority of the PvP community since day 1 (myself included).

    Seems like you're living in your own version of reality. Go watch an old arena tournament if you don't believe me.

  16. #36
    Dreadlord Kegler's Avatar
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    WoTLK was my favorite, but then again i mained a DK.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Itisamuh View Post
    BC was easily the best PvP era IMO. Individual class balance was as bad as ever, but the general flow of PvP was superb. Fights were fairly slow and methodical, and about smarts, instead of just CD mashing and never ending invincible healer wars. Not to mention the excellent world PvP that died away after BC.

    I to some degree agree with this, I loved pvp in TBC but I do remember the rise of the resto Druid, they were far from easily killed. Classes were simpler back then and people were not as skilled in pvp as today (big + for me ) and fights for the most parts lasted vastly longer than getting steamrolled today. Still I like the game more today than ever.

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans Video Games's Avatar
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    Balance wise? Season 2 I guess. Funwise? Bc. I always pvp in pve gear and bc was the only time I never really got 1 shot.

  19. #39
    Banned Ryan Cailan Ebonheart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by konway View Post
    First you claim Vanilla and BC were crap even though you never played them, and now you're trying to say the "new" arena community is young gamers who used to play first-person shooters? News Flash: that's been the majority of the PvP community since day 1 (myself included).

    Seems like you're living in your own version of reality. Go watch an old arena tournament if you don't believe me.
    From what I've seen, there definitely is a difference in the general people who dominated MMO's in 2005 compared to the playerbase who dominate it today.

    We both live in versions of our own reality. We both see our versions the right one and are using this message board to convey our ideas. This is called conflict.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 05:07 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Aceveda View Post
    " appealing to a broader audience by removing all of the stupid crap that old players thought took skill or less homogenized." They got rid/dumbed down because casuals/bads couldn't cope with it. Perfect example is old vanish, having to watchout for dot ticks etc and then vanish took skill, now you just vanish with no worry at all because you have 3sec immunity from breaking + another 3 secs if specced subterfuge.

    Another example is warrior playstyle, now you just stay in 1 stance and cdstack your way to victory, no shield abilities(defensively playing), you can just pop die by the sword and be defensive while putting out pressure. No stance dancing etc.
    But was old Warrior just an MS bot that every now and then had to swap to a shield and hit shield block to revenge spam? You guys act as if turtling your character half a game takes skill as well as having stupid macros to switch to a stance and cast pummel and back to battle stance. Today's game is much better due to the fact that you can't sit on your ass half the game. Today, every cooldowns you choose decides whether your team is dead or the winner. The best defense is the best offense in today's game which is good. It keeps you up on your guard.

  20. #40
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    Loved the warrior play style in WOTLK. Also loved BC with the stormherald but yeah, WOTLK was probably my fav. Unrelenting assault, etc. Also prot pvp was ridiculous and a lot of fun.
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