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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    blizzard can and does ip ban repeat offenders who use exploits or bots
    but then its against there own rules.

    because the action is taken against THAT account not against you or your ip

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by loki504 View Post
    but then its against there own rules.

    because the action is taken against THAT account not against you or your ip
    According to the ToU and the EULA, the account = the offendor.
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  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Let's just clear this up properly: The quoted sentence above makes no sense in the English language. (I am not trying to grammar police you, but rules cannot be applied unless their actual meaning is properly understood, and by screwing up the grammar in this case, you have lost the meaning).

    You cannot use an exploit. The way in which you using the word is made up and therefore has no real meaning when trying to apply blizzard's ToUs.

    What you actually meant to say, is that the OP exploited a bug in the game - which is indeed a bannable offence in the game. Except that the OP did no such thing.

    The term exploit (as used in this context) is a verb meaning "to take advantage of" or "derive benefit from". The OP did not exploit anything because he did not take advantage of the bug, or derive any benefit from it.

    What he did do was intentionally trigger a bug out of curiosity, which although also is something that you should not do, it is a far less serious offence than exploiting a bug.

    In short, the term "exploit" has no bearing on the OP's actions.



    Sort of. He should not have intentionally triggered the bug. Since he never exploited the bug though, there is no grounds for a permanent ban. However it does justify Blizzard's initial suspicion of him, and vindicates their course of action, culminating in the reinstatement of his account.

    And yes, I agree, it is a good lesson to not just do stuff like this.
    Please don't try to argue semantics. You can find that one specific definition to try to justify, or lessen what the OP openly admitted to doing all you want, but that doesn't make it okay. Many people even posted how the bug/exploit was done, and its not as simple as the OP would have you believe.

    The OP did in fact exploit the bug as soon as he/she tried it out. To exploit something is to take advantage of it. You can exploit a weakness in armor. You can exploit a weak spot in a wall to break through it. You can exploit an unintended sequence of coding to cause unintended behavior.

    An exploit (from the verb to exploit, in the meaning of using something to one’s own advantage) is a piece of software, a chunk of data, or sequence of commands that takes advantage of a bug, glitch or vulnerability in order to cause unintended or unanticipated behaviour to occur on computer software, hardware, or something electronic (usually computerised).
    Straight from wikipedia.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Nightsight View Post
    Oh, I see the mod is going to be a white knight. First you have to define "Exploiting", do you agree with the ban that Ensidia got on their LK normal kill? Apparantly they exploited, but anyone with a common sense would see that was something which happened by mistake and they didn't know. This is a bug that also could happen by mistake.

    In fact, people who were the trade target of the bugged herb also got banned. Did they also deserve that mister white knight?
    They saw what was happening realized it was not right kept it to them selves until they killed him then reported the "bug". They totally deserved the ban. They should have been banned 2 years earlier for admitting all over the place that they buy gold to make raid mats. This was before the guardian and battle elixir distinction and you could use multiple potions per battle.

  5. #145
    Brewmaster Jess Day's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agile Emily View Post
    So... you're saying that despite not condoning exploiting, you exploited, then tried to get unbanned for it? Also, why does you playing from day one make any difference whatsoever? Did you expect them to be more lenient on you?
    Can't really judge anything from one source but if they'd banned people that got challenge mode gear on alts when it was bugged i'd be screwed as well. All you had to do was zone into a dungeon and they mailed you a full set of challenge mode gear. Doesn't matter if you had intentions to or not, zoning into a dungeon triggered it. A blanket banwave is a pretty stupid action regardless.

  6. #146
    Brewmaster Grievuuz's Avatar
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    Shit happens, you get busted and you learn. In WotLK I exploited the 25 dailies summoning of Coren Direbrew for infinite attempts at the mounts (before they switched to the daily reward system), as seen below.



    (Did get to keep both mounts tho, so it was just a slap on the wrist xDxD)
    Quote Originally Posted by Laraven View Post
    Umm, skinny guys with abs are like a fat girl with big boobs. It don't really count.
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  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    Please don't try to argue semantics.
    Except when the semantics are core to the issue. For example if someone steals a loaf of bread, you can't call it murder. Stealing is a crime. Murder is a crime. But that does not make stealing murder, and importantly, not subject to the same punishment.

    Same thing here. There is a HUGE difference between triggering a bug and exploiting it. Yet many people have simply merged the two concepts and use them
    interchangeably. The term "exploit", used here as a noun, is a made up word which is now so widely misused that it even has a Wikipedia definition (as you pointed out). But a Wikipedia entry is not the same thing as a dictionary definition. The Wikipedia article merely explains how people use the word, not how it *should* be used.

    The point though is that for Blizzard's ToU's to have any kind of use, they have to be consistent with some standard, not subject to change because a bunch of people don't understand a word and use it incorrectly. The OP stands accused by many here of "exploiting" the game, not because he actually exploited it, but because those people don't comprehend the meaning of the word "exploit".

    And since "exploiting" a bug is a bannable offence, the definition of the word "exploit" is critical to the argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    You can find that one specific definition
    Try 8. The first 8 from a google search for "definition of exploit". All of which are dictionary definitions. The ninth hit is your wikipedia "definition" (of how the term is now colloquially (ab)used in the IT industry).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    to try to justify, or lessen what the OP openly admitted to doing all you want, but that doesn't make it okay.
    I never said that what he did was okay. I simply put it into perspective as a minor infringement rather than a major, bannable, offence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonpartyfan View Post
    The OP did in fact exploit the bug as soon as he/she tried it out. To exploit something is to take advantage of it. You can exploit a weakness in armor. You can exploit a weak spot in a wall to break through it. You can exploit an unintended sequence of coding to cause unintended behavior.
    Now who is playing with semantics? The fact is that in no way did he gain benefit from his actions or use it "to his advantage". He used the bug. He did nothing with it though. Hence it fails to meet any reasonable definition of the term exploitation.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Sythari View Post
    Oh come on guys. You can't say if someone told you that you could dupe by selling something and dc'ing yourself with a dc macro that you wouldn't try it out of curiosity!
    Nope. And gold is of no concern to me. Over all 22 characters on 2 servers most 90s I barely have 1000g per toon. I have no need for gold. I farm my own mats, make my own epics, and do not need anything off the AH or BMAH. Guild repairs are set high and available every day so that is no issue. That and why risk losing your account over something so trivial?

  9. #149
    Pandaren Monk Martyn 470's Avatar
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    Slightly off topic but blizz ban for anything, my sister was on my acc ( yes, i'm her legal guardian), someone in RFC was being a douche and a ninja puller, he called her a "Fag", and being the way she is, she responded with something like " I think you'll find you're the fag", we both reported each other, I got banned, he didn't, makes sense.

  10. #150
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    Are you saying that a perma ban for DCing yourself with a bugged herb is reasonable?
    No. And Blizzard wouldn't perma you for that. OP is clearly lying.

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  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Xeraxis View Post
    I wouldn't believe every sob story you hear.
    This. I don't remember which game it was (maybe GW2) were the developers actually called out few of these "but I only tried it because I was curious!" people, and some of them had actually exploited like crazy.

  12. #152
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    No. And Blizzard wouldn't perma you for that. OP is clearly lying.
    People have been banned for less and there's probably over a thousand examples in this forum alone. Get your head out of a certain companies ass long enough to see that while it may be a good thing that they take this seriously - the treatment you can get is ridiculous at times.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    Except when the semantics are core to the issue. For example if someone steals a loaf of bread, you can't call it murder. Stealing is a crime. Murder is a crime. But that does not make stealing murder, and importantly, not subject to the same punishment.

    Same thing here. There is a HUGE difference between triggering a bug and exploiting it. Yet many people have simply merged the two concepts and use them
    interchangeably. The term "exploit", used here as a noun, is a made up word which is now so widely misused that it even has a Wikipedia definition (as you pointed out). But a Wikipedia entry is not the same thing as a dictionary definition. The Wikipedia article merely explains how people use the word, not how it *should* be used.

    The point though is that for Blizzard's ToU's to have any kind of use, they have to be consistent with some standard, not subject to change because a bunch of people don't understand a word and use it incorrectly. The OP stands accused by many here of "exploiting" the game, not because he actually exploited it, but because those people don't comprehend the meaning of the word "exploit".

    And since "exploiting" a bug is a bannable offence, the definition of the word "exploit" is critical to the argument.



    Try 8. The first 8 from a google search for "definition of exploit". All of which are dictionary definitions. The ninth hit is your wikipedia "definition" (of how the term is now colloquially (ab)used in the IT industry).



    I never said that what he did was okay. I simply put it into perspective as a minor infringement rather than a major, bannable, offence.



    Now who is playing with semantics? The fact is that in no way did he gain benefit from his actions or use it "to his advantage". He used the bug. He did nothing with it though. Hence it fails to meet any reasonable definition of the term exploitation.
    If he USED the knowledge of said bug to get a desired outcome....

    Semantics are important, but so is knowing how the bug is actually done in order to be used. Apparently its not as easy as just selling some herbs. A few people have posted the way its done, and its not something he accidentally happened upon. The way I read the instructions, he did actually have to gain a duplicate for this to work.

    If robbing a bank, it does not matter if you actually held the money, just trying to rob the bank will get you the same time. I don't care if he got 10 gold or 10 million out of it, he did in fact EXPLOIT the bug. The definition from wikipedia does in fact show this to be very obvious.

    You're right about the language. The word Exploit was first used far before computers were made. But you can still exploit a weakness in armor. You don't actually "gain" anything there either. When i search for it, the top was the wikipedia article I quoted, and the second being dictionary.com, which is the main online dictionary I use. Neither would disprove the claim that he exploited a bug.

    No one is trying to say he somehow murdered someone. I just think he is telling only half the truth, and I don't think anything he says, or semantics will clear his name.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 07:52 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    People have been banned for less and there's probably over a thousand examples in this forum alone. Get your head out of a certain companies ass long enough to see that while it may be a good thing that they take this seriously - the treatment you can get is ridiculous at times.
    Yeah, I bet every one of those examples are 100% truth. No one ever lies on the internet at all....

  14. #154
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    How can you claim he is only telling half the truth when he got unbanned? It's a clear case of kneejerk reactions from blizzard and then taking it back afterwards.

  15. #155
    Quote Originally Posted by Sydarm View Post
    Many people were taking advantage of a disconnect rollback bug that allowed you to dupe items and bypass crafting timers and cooldowns.

    All you needed to do was mill a stack of herbs and vendor it and you'd be DCed (not going into details how). Many people like me, just DCed themself, or was told by a friend to try it for fun to DC themselves, or literally was jsut curious if you COULD disconnect yourself. Many people had no intention of duping, or malicious intent, or exploiting the economy or it's server.

    These people including the dupers were given permanent account closures the other night on Monday evening including me. I appealed it TWICE and both times I was rejected and go no for an answer. They said if i replied again my account would get no response. I am a day 1 wow account holder and never been unsubbed in years. I've also never exploited or been banned for anything like this.

    I do take full responsibility for disconnecting myself out of curiosity and don't condone major exploiting.

    I basically gave up, blizzard didn't care. it was a blanket ban. I started a new account, and began leveling again. I woke up this morning and checked my wow account and found it to be unbanned and am currently playing. I was given no email as to why, or how.

    For those who are banned who never meant anything, or simply DCed a friend or themself, their is still hope.
    You did. You pay for it. Cry some place else idiot.

  16. #156
    At the end of the day, no matter how much time have you invested in the game, no matter if you earn just 1 gold exploiting, no matter if you were "just trying out" the exploit. If you cheat you can get banned and you clicked "I accept" to terms of use, which include: (not the exact same words) "Blizzard can end your account for no reason, whenever they want to"

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Butler Log View Post
    According to the ToU and the EULA, the account = the offendor.
    not not what they say when you did someting wrong because then they the action was against the account and not the owner.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    How can you claim he is only telling half the truth when he got unbanned? It's a clear case of kneejerk reactions from blizzard and then taking it back afterwards.
    Because someone posted instructions for how the bug works. Apparently to use it, you have to dup items. The OP states he didn't gain anything out of it.

    You've seriously never heard someone tell a story about them being punished unfairly, later to find out they actually did something wrong? Just because Blizzard had mercy on him, doesn;t mean he didn't dup, didn't try the bug out etc etc etc.

  19. #159
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    People have been banned for less and there's probably over a thousand examples in this forum alone. Get your head out of a certain companies ass long enough to see that while it may be a good thing that they take this seriously - the treatment you can get is ridiculous at times.
    When you get banned, stop whining and start to call Blizzards Hotline.
    They will investigate thoroughly and IF you were banned and did nothing wrong, they will revert your ban.

    Yes they blanket the area and sort out stuff later to get people punished quickly, mainly as a deterrent for others.

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  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Granyala View Post
    No. And Blizzard wouldn't perma you for that. OP is clearly lying.
    He didn't actually get perma banned. It was overturned.

    You'd be surprised though at how easily one can get banned by an automatic process and require a GM intervention to get the action overturned. It happened to me just after Christmas. I suddenly got booted off the server and when I tried to reconnect was informed that my account was banned. I checked my email and saw that I had been banned for "exploiting the wow economy" by participating in gold selling activities.

    It turns out that I had managed to flag my account by using WTFast (a proxy service that improves your connection speed), and in the space of one evening bought a jewelled onyx panther mount on the AH and farmed warbear leather to make a set of warbear woolies for someone in trade who wanted them for transmog.

    As a result the system (no human involvement) assumed I was botting or gold selling or something and automatically banned my account. When I contested the issue a GM looked at it and unlocked the account. He told me that using a proxy service is something gold sellers often do, and that it ups the risk of a false alarm and automatic account suspensions happening. Fortunately a quick look at my recent account activity showed that all my actions, although in some ways resembling gold seller activity to a dumb program, were in fact all completely innocuous and I was subsequently let off.

    The bottom line here though is that the system constantly monitors your activity, and flags certain things (large gold transactions, significant AH activity, significant repetitive "farming" of a mob or resource etc) and will give you a kind of "risk" score. Do enough of those things in a short period time while using a proxy service and you have a high chance of setting off their alarm and getting hit by the automated response, which can include a perma ban.

    If you are indeed innocent, you have nothing to worry about (although tbh I did find the whole thing rather stressful, because you hear of horror stories on sites like this).

    I believe the reason they do it this way is because most of the accounts caught this way do in fact turn out to be either guilty or the result of a compromised account, and banning the account and then unlocking innocent players later is far more expedient in terms of manpower than checking every account first before banning. If it is someone who is genuinely guilty (or more likely a genuine goldseller), they will probably know not to even bother appealing. And in the case of a compromised account, you need to lock it anyway until the owner makes contact again.

    It just sucks a bit to be inconvenienced when you are one of the rare innocents caught in the net. But overall I can take solace from the knowledge that Blizzard can and often do nail the real offenders that ruin my gaming experience.

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