1. #1
    Grunt
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    DW Frost reforging (Simcraft plots)

    I was running reforge plots on my character us.battle.net/wow/en/character/lightnings-blade/Donken/advanced (using default settings in 510-8 simulation craft, imported from armory) One thing to note is I am using BT instead of Runic Empowerment (sims higher and I've been getting better at playing this style) I currently have 5829 mastery and 4540 haste

    i.imgur.com/CkwsF.png

    Anywyays, it's interesting how haste and mastery interact with each other. When reforging out of mastery and into haste you lose dps, but you also lose dps by reforging from haste into mastery. Something to consider as the BIS may be too mastery heavy.

    Here is the same simulation going out to 3000 stats i.imgur.com/VWAjp.png

    I'm now going to run Runic Empowerment and see how it turns out... I'll post the results. Any comments though? Is this normal for reforge plots? (Sorry for the malformed links, it won't let me post links because of being a n00b to mmoc)

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 05:38 PM ----------

    Here is the plot with RE instead of BT, looks to have the same kind of scaling strangeness. i.imgur.com/R0Dle.png

    Also it can be noted that when I plot DPS per stat, it's a linear line for all stats, so I think it has something to do with losing one of a stat and replacing it with another.
    Last edited by Donken; 2013-01-09 at 09:38 PM.

  2. #2
    I have been trying to figure this out for the last week or two. Depending on what levels of both, the stats start to tip back and forth (with higher gear levels anyhow).

    If you're too low on haste and favor mastery, haste will be higher of a stat. Once you get to about 6700 or so, mastery starts to even out (at least, from the sims I've done on my own character). Once I go above that level, mastery starts to take favor again.


    It's caused me to have a really weird mix of haste gems and mastery reforges. And I don't even care about AE damage as any fight that matters that has AE situations, the AE dmg is the least important thing of that fight anyhow.


    Maybe I'll try to attach some plot point screenshots for my character too.

  3. #3
    Grunt
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    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    I have been trying to figure this out for the last week or two. Depending on what levels of both, the stats start to tip back and forth (with higher gear levels anyhow).

    If you're too low on haste and favor mastery, haste will be higher of a stat. Once you get to about 6700 or so, mastery starts to even out (at least, from the sims I've done on my own character). Once I go above that level, mastery starts to take favor again.


    It's caused me to have a really weird mix of haste gems and mastery reforges. And I don't even care about AE damage as any fight that matters that has AE situations, the AE dmg is the least important thing of that fight anyhow.


    Maybe I'll try to attach some plot point screenshots for my character too.
    Good to know I'm not the only one seeing this. I've been favoring mastery lately since a lot of fights have cleave so it can be useful. But when I do reforges the stat weight for haste is crazy close to mastery, so when you reforge with close weights on both you tend to get a good balance (which is what the sims are showing)

  4. #4
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    glad everyone else noticed this... only got a second 1h weapon today so went to sim my char (after basically going completely mastery heavy) and haste came out with a stat weight of 2.6 compared to mastery's 1.2 :-P

    everything evened out (and dps went up) when i got haste to just over 5k, at that point it was 1.67 haste and 1.6 mastery on a patchwerk fight, and mastery took over once movement was introduced.

    does look odd having a virtually full mastery reforge with str+haste gems though
    Amazing signature courtesy of Shyama

  5. #5
    Grunt
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    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    everything evened out (and dps went up) when i got haste to just over 5k, at that point it was 1.67 haste and 1.6 mastery on a patchwerk fight, and mastery took over once movement was introduced.
    Good catch on movement sims. One thing to note is how Simulationcraft calculates stat weights. They basically dump 1000 more of a stat and check how it affects DPS. Obviously this isn't completely to accurate to how you are geared right now. From my first plot posted in this thread there seems to be a sweet spot where if I reforge 700ish mastery into haste I will get a small DPS increase, but like mentioned previously movement/cleave/AOE scales better with mastery.

    On the upside this opens up gearing for us, even crit is even weighted pretty reasonably so having gear with crit isn't a big DPS loss. It also means ilevel is going to trump which stats are on a piece of gear (aside from situations where gear sets have too much hit/exp to reforge out of), unlike warriors who have to favor crit pieces, like landsoul using 489 bracers and a PVP ring

  6. #6
    You really can't just do stat weights and call it good. As soon as you change any of the stats, the stat weights are no longer valid. You really have to do a reforge plotting, and go that route.

    I came to 7800 haste/3000 mastery as the best balance I could get within +/- 3000 either direction (at 501 ilvl).

    Quote Originally Posted by Donken View Post
    Good to know I'm not the only one seeing this. I've been favoring mastery lately since a lot of fights have cleave so it can be useful. But when I do reforges the stat weight for haste is crazy close to mastery, so when you reforge with close weights on both you tend to get a good balance (which is what the sims are showing)
    Actually most fights aren't AE-centric, and the portions of the fights that have such situations, the AE damage isn't important. I think the only real exception is Garalon, but I don't see a reason to reforge for a single fight :P
    Last edited by fangless; 2013-01-11 at 07:31 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Actually most fights aren't AE-centric, and the portions of the fights that have such situations, the AE damage isn't important. I think the only real exception is Garalon, but I don't see a reason to reforge for a single fight :P
    Garalon, Ambershaper, Empress to a degree and Sha HC. Especially Sha.

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