Thread: Affliction 5.2

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  1. #1
    The Lightbringer Seezer's Avatar
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    Affliction 5.2

    With the nerf to GoSac, will it still be the go to 75 talent for single target?
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  2. #2
    GC said on Twitter Supremacy will be tweaked.

    I know my post doesn't directly answer your question; we'll have to see.
    Last edited by Schirm; 2013-01-11 at 06:07 AM.

  3. #3
    its way way too early to tell, with what we know currently, then GoSac will still be best for single target by far, but if supremacy will get tweaked to be equal to GoSac for, which i doubt as it would make Service pointless as it is already close to supremacy, so to tweak supremacy they would have to tweak service as well, or supremacy will become the new GoSac and mandatory

  4. #4
    I think GC has said somewhere that the design intent is for every row to have 1 wrong choice and 2 right ones that you can choose depend on the situation. So I wouldn't be surprised if they tweaked supremacy and left service where it is for Aff

  5. #5
    Based on:
    http://simulationcraft.org/510/Pets_...ffliction.html

    A 5% nerf of sacrifice and a slight buff of supremacy would probably make them pretty close. Then if you consider multidotting or AoE, Supremacy would pull ahead even more than it is now (for heavy AoE / multi-dot fights).

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by rezoacken View Post
    Based on:
    http://simulationcraft.org/510/Pets_...ffliction.html

    A 5% nerf of sacrifice and a slight buff of supremacy would probably make them pretty close. Then if you consider multidotting or AoE, Supremacy would pull ahead even more than it is now (for heavy AoE / multi-dot fights).
    I think that I am one of like two warlocks that pray that GoSac stays the dominant Grimoire. I do not miss managing my pets at all. (Even though there were few encounters that needed management.) I love Warlock, never loved Warlock pets.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Femto1 View Post
    I think that I am one of like two warlocks that pray that GoSac stays the dominant Grimoire. I do not miss managing my pets at all. (Even though there were few encounters that needed management.) I love Warlock, never loved Warlock pets.
    If you're one of two, I'm the other. In pvp, I love my pet. In PvE, they're a massive pain.

  8. #8
    Even if sacrifice be a ~200/300 dps loss, in Single target fights i will still sacrifice my pet.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Femto1 View Post
    I think that I am one of like two warlocks that pray that GoSac stays the dominant Grimoire. I do not miss managing my pets at all. (Even though there were few encounters that needed management.) I love Warlock, never loved Warlock pets.
    I miss pets. With affliction PVE it just doesn't pay to use anything other for single target fury. I don't know how you could love a lock, but hate pets when they are such a big part of locks. But keeping GoSac so far ahead takes away from their "Pick whatever you want and don't suffer performance loss" mentality with talents and glyphs. That's why they're taking the soul shard and ember glyphs out.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 10:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by JV Chequer View Post
    Even if sacrifice be a ~200/300 dps loss, in Single target fights i will still sacrifice my pet.
    And this is how it should be. Let people choose based on what they want. Not because they're going to get a significant increase by doing it. I mean, we got some cool new pets, and I hardly get to use them.
    Last edited by Seezer; 2013-01-11 at 10:41 PM.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by rezoacken View Post
    Based on:
    http://simulationcraft.org/510/Pets_...ffliction.html

    A 5% nerf of sacrifice and a slight buff of supremacy would probably make them pretty close. Then if you consider multidotting or AoE, Supremacy would pull ahead even more than it is now (for heavy AoE / multi-dot fights).
    How exactly does Supremacy pull ahead on multidot or AE? None of the Aff pets have any AE or empower our dots AFAIK

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ykza View Post
    How exactly does Supremacy pull ahead on multidot or AE? None of the Aff pets have any AE or empower our dots AFAIK
    Because sacrifice doesn't buff dots - only single target abilities, so you gain nothing from sacrifice when AOEing whereas you gain some dps from supremacy, AOE or not.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by JV Chequer View Post
    Even if sacrifice be a ~200/300 dps loss, in Single target fights i will still sacrifice my pet.
    Pets are buggy on some encounters, I would rather kill them than have to micro manage them. 0/21/40
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Schirm View Post
    GC said on Twitter Supremacy will be tweaked.

    I know my post doesn't directly answer your question; we'll have to see.
    You have a source for that, I cant find that on his twitter account
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    Because sacrifice doesn't buff dots - only single target abilities, so you gain nothing from sacrifice when AOEing whereas you gain some dps from supremacy, AOE or not.
    You do gain some damage from the pet while not casting MG but then again, you do less damage when casting MG, so I'd say the damage is pretty much the same(It basically just means that the extra damage on Sacrifice accounts for the pets damage and vice-versa). This is without taking into account the fact the the best dps pet is the observer so you could lose damage from the pet switching targets.
    Given KJC, the only time Supremacy pulls ahead of Gosac is when there are periods of time when you can't dps the boss but your pet can.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    You have a source for that, I cant find that on his twitter account
    He's probably referring to this
    https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/sta...23686777389057

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ykza View Post
    You do gain some damage from the pet while not casting MG but then again, you do less damage when casting MG, so I'd say the damage is pretty much the same(It basically just means that the extra damage on Sacrifice accounts for the pets damage and vice-versa).
    The person you originally replied to was talking about heavy AOE fights, if you're getting plenty of time to MG then obviously Sacrifice works - but if the fight (or at least the part where dps matters) is purely AOE, then GOSUP is what you'll take.

    Pretty sure I remember Evralia saying GOSUP was superior on Twin Emps for example due to the low amount of time spent MGing.

    On fights where the AOE / multidotting isn't what you're getting most of your damage from, SAC will obviously still be great, but I don't believe that's what rezoacken was talking about when he said "heavy aoe".

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    The person you originally replied to was talking about heavy AOE fights, if you're getting plenty of time to MG then obviously Sacrifice works - but if the fight (or at least the part where dps matters) is purely AOE, then GOSUP is what you'll take.

    Pretty sure I remember Evralia saying GOSUP was superior on Twin Emps for example due to the low amount of time spent MGing.

    On fights where the AOE / multidotting isn't what you're getting most of your damage from, SAC will obviously still be great, but I don't believe that's what rezoacken was talking about when he said "heavy aoe".
    Twin Emps? But yeah on Will of the Emp Fel Imp is the way to go since most you're rarely going to be MG'ing.
    "1 in 4 Americans are skeptical on climate change...who gives a shit? That doesn't matter. You don't need other people's opinions on a fact. You may as well have a poll asking: Which number is bigger? 5 or 15? Do Owls exist? Are there hats?"

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagassh View Post
    The person you originally replied to was talking about heavy AOE fights, if you're getting plenty of time to MG then obviously Sacrifice works - but if the fight (or at least the part where dps matters) is purely AOE, then GOSUP is what you'll take.

    Pretty sure I remember Evralia saying GOSUP was superior on Twin Emps for example due to the low amount of time spent MGing.

    On fights where the AOE / multidotting isn't what you're getting most of your damage from, SAC will obviously still be great, but I don't believe that's what rezoacken was talking about when he said "heavy aoe".
    What he said.

    Sacrifice buffs MG. If you are not using MG or not enough, then having a pet is a dps gain (and remember a build with Sacrifice on patchwerk is like 5-10% more damage than supremacy). There is a threshold where if you use MG X% less than on a patchwerk fight, then Supremacy pulls ahead (and your pet keeps dpsing). Whether you're aoeing, avoiding stuff or multidoting when you attain that threshold of low MG usage then the 50% bonus to MG is not that good.

    I don't know at what percentage of MG usage this happens but it certainly happens on fights like Will. Also for a fight like H:Maljarak, I tend to start with a pet (normal pet) and sacrifice it just before the first pack is dead.

    And as I was saying in my first post, a nerf to MG + a buff to supremacy would make this X% even less.
    Last edited by rezoacken; 2013-01-12 at 05:36 AM.

  19. #19
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    I'd like to bust out the Observer. That's a pretty sweet demon.
    "1 in 4 Americans are skeptical on climate change...who gives a shit? That doesn't matter. You don't need other people's opinions on a fact. You may as well have a poll asking: Which number is bigger? 5 or 15? Do Owls exist? Are there hats?"

  20. #20
    Here are some quick numbers (someone might do something more refined).

    Based on the observer simcraft results here (T14N stuff I think)
    http://simulationcraft.org/510/Pets_...ffliction.html

    You can see the following:
    Observer dps = 14045
    Malefic Grasp and drain soul dps (without sacrifice) = 34918 (just add everything related to ds and mg)

    A Sacrifice build in 5.1 would increase this by 50% => 34918*0.5= 17459
    If you go to the Sacrifice simcraft you'd get a similar number for MG and DS (similar to 34918+17459=52377) which is around 50% of the 105Kdps as we all know.

    So dps gain from Observer is (according to simcraft which is far from perfect) around 80% of the dps gain from Grimoire of Sacrifice.

    So as soon as you don't use MG at least 80% as much as a single target rotation, supremacy pulls ahead (approximately, more refined sims/maths are needed for an accurate % but that should give you an idea that it is probably in this range).
    How much time do we spend doing MG on this simcraft ? 256.8/450 = 57% So 57% of the time. 80% of that is 45.6%. So if the time spent doing MG is less than 45.6% of the fight it pulls ahead. Once again this is an approximate figure.

    In 5.2, with the 5% Sacrifice nerf alone, this % of usage (assuming same maths and numbers) becomes 89% which correspond to a 50.7% time spent MGing.

    Add to this a Supremacy buff...

    PS: Also note that FelImp is at 13046 dps if needed and I didn't took into account that Terrorguard does more damage than Doomguard.
    Last edited by rezoacken; 2013-01-12 at 06:22 AM.

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