1. #1

    Protection Paladin MT for 10M HM questions

    Hello Paladins,

    My MT for my guild is a Prot Paladin. I'm not sure if its me, but ever since the xpac... I think I'm seeing tanks worried more about dps or healing done then good "old school" mitigation and avoidance tanking. We are starting 10M Hard mode fights and I want to fix this now before it gets out of hand.

    What should I be looking for in his gear/gemming/reforging wise?

    I started to read that there are a few styles of Prot tanking, what should he be leaning towards... this its mastery/control?

    Thanks for the help

  2. #2
    For 10 man, haste, hit and exp cap. Mastery is not so good for 10 man, haste is just pulls ahead so much except for a few specific fights.

    Tanks should worry more about dps than the old school mitigation tanking since tanking, especially in 10 man is not an issue anymore.

    If you want to provide an armory link or even logs we could help you more, understand you don't want to name and shame. But as long as he is leaning towards alot of dps gear with alot of haste, hit and exp, he is doing fine. Hard to tell about his gems, enchants and reforges without armory.
    Last edited by Firefly33; 2013-01-09 at 11:43 PM.
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    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  3. #3
    Fluffy Kitten Fhi's Avatar
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    It's not really accurate that we are more worried about dps or healing done, it is really just a side effect of our new stat priorities (see Firefly's post). There is a separate thread (http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Fix-my-Tanking) for asking for specific character help, so consider posting there if you have permission to post your guildmate's armory and/or logs.

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  4. #4
    In 10 man heroic, tanks aren't getting hit for quite as much as they used to assuming your doing everything right. Even then, dodge/parry only pulls ahead slightly in reducing damage taken from boss hits. By getting hit/expertise caps, and stacking haste then mastery, you gain a lot more dps (there are some tough dps checks this tier) and raid healing. And the damage you do take will be a little bit more consistent.

    hit/exp/haste increase your survivability because it allows you to generate more holy power for shield.

    You still need a healthy amount of stam though. 650kish health buffed is a good number to aim for. in my opinion.

  5. #5
    If we compare the difference with cata.

    Tanking is less of an issue, bosses hit weaker and there are less dangerous tank fights, we simply do not need to pay as much attention to our tanking as we used to.
    Tank DPS is a larger part of the raid dps than it was in Cata.

    So the issue is not really that we care about dps, it is that we don't care about tanking, since its already very easy to manage.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  6. #6
    its not that we dont care about "tanking"...its just the way we work currently with haste we can produce so much self healing and have a high uptime on our SOTR buff that it makes more logical sense to go haste over mitigation

    for example at the moment in my gear, 505, im looking at around 60-70% on average uptime on SOTR buff (fight dependent of course), around 35k hps thru. its because of this that it out weighs the whole avoidance style of tanking. As avoidance is unreliable compared to haste build.

    and yes the fact you can also do around 70-100k dps is a huge bonus aswell.

    there is no magic stamina number either....it depends more on the fight (for example leh shi heroic. high health pool helps)....ur healers and also what you feel good with......i only sit at around 600k buffed and thats been fine for all heroic bosses so far.

    P.S haste still wins in the majority fights in 25man HC aswell....u get enough stamina from gear...and if you need more just gem a little different but still reforge into haste.
    Last edited by akrusLJ; 2013-01-10 at 07:59 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcnasty78 View Post
    Hello Paladins,

    My MT for my guild is a Prot Paladin. I'm not sure if its me, but ever since the xpac... I think I'm seeing tanks worried more about dps or healing done then good "old school" mitigation and avoidance tanking. We are starting 10M Hard mode fights and I want to fix this now before it gets out of hand.

    What should I be looking for in his gear/gemming/reforging wise?

    I started to read that there are a few styles of Prot tanking, what should he be leaning towards... this its mastery/control?

    Thanks for the help
    Not much anyone can do without an armory link or logs of the fights.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 11:08 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by akrusLJ View Post
    for example at the moment in my gear, 505, im looking at around 60-70% on average uptime on SOTR buff (fight dependent of course), around 35k hps thru. its because of this that it out weighs the whole avoidance style of tanking. As avoidance is unreliable compared to haste build.
    Have an armory link and WoL link to back this up? Not sure how you can possibly have a 60-70% uptime on SoTR without an enormous amount of haste. If you were at 25% or so haste unbuffed, I wouldn't imagine you could break much more than 50% uptime except on maybe Gara'jal.
    Last edited by Scinder; 2013-01-11 at 05:10 PM.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Scinder View Post
    Have an armory link and WoL link to back this up? Not sure how you can possibly have a 60-70% uptime on SoTR without an enormous amount of haste. If you were at 25% or so haste unbuffed, I wouldn't imagine you could break much more than 50% uptime except on maybe Gara'jal.
    Just purely mathematically speaking.
    With 50% haste (GCD) you get 55.55% uptime playing PERFECTLY. Now, that does not account for GC procs and HA/SW/DP
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    Just purely mathematically speaking.
    With 50% haste (GCD) you get 55.55% uptime playing PERFECTLY. Now, that does not account for GC procs and HA/SW/DP
    Right. I should have specified that it would have had to have been a near perfect rotation with a lot of luck with procs.

  10. #10
    With 9.6k haste i can hold ~60% ShotR uptime on fights where i don't have forced downtime. I imagine it would be much higher on encounters where you can use Holy Avenger exactly two or three times before the boss falls over.

    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=6883&e=7086
    That would have been >93% uptime if the boss had died right after the second Holy Avenger. Of course that kind of uptime is only achievable with very specific fight lengths and HA, bloodlust and preferably quite a few GC procs. But it definately is possible which just shows how powerful our active mitigation is at the moment.
    Last edited by zora; 2013-01-12 at 12:07 PM.
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  11. #11
    You also have to remember that haste dos not only give you higher uptime SOTR (witch reduces damage taken by a huge amount) but it also increases your healing done from Glyph of the Battle Healer, what it does is:
    "Using melee attacks while using Seal of Insight heals a nearby injured friendly target, excluding the Paladin, within 30 yards for 30% of damage dealt."

    Tanking is only my OS so my gear is not the best, ilvl 479 i believe, (3 blue parts including 463-weapon, 3 raid finder parts, a few ret-parts) and I still manage do do almost 70K hps as a tank on our last Stone guard heroic kill:
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/s...?s=6050&e=6378

    Thats like having an extra healer, I ended up at second place in healing done. I'm sure that a good geared ilvl 500+ pallytank with an epic weapon upgraded to max level would be able to push like 90-100K hps on an gimmick fight like Stone Guard.

  12. #12
    Scarab Lord nightfalls's Avatar
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    Well, to think of this, the more haste, the more chance for GC procs.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    Well, to think of this, the more haste, the more chance for GC procs.
    Same chance, just a greater total number received due to a greater number of rolls.

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