1. #1

    [Balance] Full crit gems vs int gems

    I've been contemplating switch to full int gems. As int gives crit and SP, I've been looking into it. I'm simply curious as I see some druids full crit, some int gems (int/spirit, int/crit for yellow, int for red etc).

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    Depends on your gear.
    Figure out the statweights with your specific set of gear and then make the decision.

  3. #3
    I did a scale on sim craft of all stats with my current gear, and it came out as Int > Haste > SP > Spi = Hit > Crit = Mastery. Did I weigh them correctly, or is there another way of figuring out stat weights that i don't know of?


  4. #4
    that little stat weight summary says haste gems are about 1.8x better than int gems, no? or is double stats on secondary gems already accounted for? i don't use simcraft

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liax View Post
    I did a scale on sim craft of all stats with my current gear, and it came out as Int > Haste > SP > Spi = Hit > Crit = Mastery. Did I weigh them correctly, or is there another way of figuring out stat weights that i don't know of?

    That's really, really wrong. I wouldn't trust simcraft with anything for Balance in 5.0, tbh. Use WrathCalcs.

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Liax View Post
    I've been contemplating switch to full int gems. As int gives crit and SP, I've been looking into it. I'm simply curious as I see some druids full crit, some int gems (int/spirit, int/crit for yellow, int for red etc).

    Thoughts?
    There is a point in your gear (and onwards) where it will become from 1 Intel > 2 Crit to 1 Intel < 2 Crit. Given that gems are already 1:2 favouring secondary stats, then it's completely logical to see people gearing for crit over Intel.

    I believe that point is around ilvl 490. Check Wrathcalcs to be sure. (Multiply crit's value by 2. If it goes above the current vallue of Intel then you are at that point.)

  8. #8
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juvencus View Post
    There is a point in your gear (and onwards) where it will become from 1 Intel > 2 Crit to 1 Intel < 2 Crit. Given that gems are already 1:2 favouring secondary stats, then it's completely logical to see people gearing for crit over Intel.

    I believe that point is around ilvl 490. Check Wrathcalcs to be sure. (Multiply crit's value by 2. If it goes above the current vallue of Intel then you are at that point.)
    There's also a point where 1 Int will again surpass 2 Crit. This tier that point is very, very close to BiS (If not full BiS). I'm at 507 ilvl and 1 Int = 2 Crit for me so I continue to gem Crit at this point because of it's added benefit to help the pitiful Moonkin DPS while moving with SS procs, something you won't see in the spreadsheet. But I fully expect once Intellect noticeably passes twice the value of secondary stats, and it will come next tier due to the diminishing return on haste and crit, that it will remain that way for the rest of the expansion.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    There's also a point where 1 Int will again surpass 2 Crit. This tier that point is very, very close to BiS (If not full BiS). I'm at 507 ilvl and 1 Int = 2 Crit for me so I continue to gem Crit at this point because of it's added benefit to help the pitiful Moonkin DPS while moving with SS procs, something you won't see in the spreadsheet. But I fully expect once Intellect noticeably passes twice the value of secondary stats, and it will come next tier due to the diminishing return on haste and crit, that it will remain that way for the rest of the expansion.
    I see that you have about 25% crit, which is much higher than mine but it still seems low, perhaps because it's just the first tier. Crit really becomes equal to Int so soon?

  10. #10
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stommped View Post
    There's also a point where 1 Int will again surpass 2 Crit. This tier that point is very, very close to BiS (If not full BiS). I'm at 507 ilvl and 1 Int = 2 Crit for me so I continue to gem Crit at this point because of it's added benefit to help the pitiful Moonkin DPS while moving with SS procs, something you won't see in the spreadsheet. But I fully expect once Intellect noticeably passes twice the value of secondary stats, and it will come next tier due to the diminishing return on haste and crit, that it will remain that way for the rest of the expansion.
    ...

    I was relatively certain that Crit, Haste, and Mastery have no diminishing returns...
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  11. #11
    Zookeeper Sunfyre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    ...

    I was relatively certain that Crit, Haste, and Mastery have no diminishing returns...
    Not in the way that it's hardcoded (such as Cyclone), but certain stats become weaker as you pile them on, so at some point (and this is pure example, don't scream at me because this isn't an actual true case), if you pile on so much crit, it may make 1 additional point of crit weaker than 1 point of haste, so at that point, you may want to gem haste.

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  12. #12
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    ...

    I was relatively certain that Crit, Haste, and Mastery have no diminishing returns...
    They absolutely do in relation to your other stats, Mastery is a bit different though.
    Last edited by Stommped; 2013-01-14 at 03:12 PM.

  13. #13
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfyre View Post
    Not in the way that it's hardcoded (such as Cyclone), but certain stats become weaker as you pile them on, so at some point (and this is pure example, don't scream at me because this isn't an actual true case), if you pile on so much crit, it may make 1 additional point of crit weaker than 1 point of haste, so at that point, you may want to gem haste.
    Would this be due to the rating decay (I.E, akin to dodge/parry diminishing returns, going from 100-200 crit rating gives more crit then going from 1000-1100 crit rating), or is it because as you get more stats, the value of other stats increase more (If you have 50% crit, you should go for haste because 1 out of every 2 spells crit and more haste = more spells to crit)?
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  14. #14
    Moderator Stommped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Would this be due to the rating decay (I.E, akin to dodge/parry diminishing returns, going from 100-200 crit rating gives more crit then going from 1000-1100 crit rating), or is it because as you get more stats, the value of other stats increase more (If you have 50% crit, you should go for haste because 1 out of every 2 spells crit and more haste = more spells to crit)?
    The latter, increasing crit (or any stat really) will increase the value of other stats.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Raugnaut View Post
    Would this be due to the rating decay (I.E, akin to dodge/parry diminishing returns, going from 100-200 crit rating gives more crit then going from 1000-1100 crit rating), or is it because as you get more stats, the value of other stats increase more (If you have 50% crit, you should go for haste because 1 out of every 2 spells crit and more haste = more spells to crit)?
    It's really neither of those. If you have 0% crit, a 1% crit increase is equivalent to 1% damage increase. If you have 99% crit, it's only ~0,5% damage increase. The same is true for haste rating and mastery, though only crit drops to 0 after 100%.
    Rating value would have to increase to keep this even.

    This is inherent to any linear growth. If you increase an amount linearly at a fixed step size, each step will be less of an increase than the one before. (I.e. increasing 1->2 doubles the value, but 2->3 is only a 50% increase etc.)

  16. #16
    Scarab Lord Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It's really neither of those. If you have 0% crit, a 1% crit increase is equivalent to 1% damage increase. If you have 99% crit, it's only ~0,5% damage increase. The same is true for haste rating and mastery, though only crit drops to 0 after 100%.
    Rating value would have to increase to keep this even.

    This is inherent to any linear growth. If you increase an amount linearly at a fixed step size, each step will be less of an increase than the one before. (I.e. increasing 1->2 doubles the value, but 2->3 is only a 50% increase etc.)
    Ooo, I see. Thanks!
    Anyone ever notice how the sun seems to shine silverish now? Didn't it used to shine goldish? PM me if you've noticed this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moounter View Post
    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  17. #17
    Field Marshal Yazgot's Avatar
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    Sinister Primal Diamond - Now is so OP for Boomkin .

    But still it should have about 0.5 crit more.
    Last edited by Yazgot; 2013-01-30 at 07:42 PM.

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