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  1. #41
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thassarian View Post
    It would fix a great many issues in PvP, but we're given to believe by Mods and MVPs on the official forums that "without the gear grind many people would stop doing PvP because there's no incentive to do it". Tbh, I find that a load of bollocks.
    Totally agree that this reason given out is total bollox.

    i dont know a single pvper who does it for the gear. PvPers do Pvp for the titles, rankings and statistics.

    Arena players simply want to get to Gladiator title, they dont give a flying **** what gear theyre wearing. Most serious arena players delete their old season gear when they enter a new season. They have no care for the gear, the gear is simply a stepping-stone to get to Glad title.

    Pvpers generally want fast and fun games, they wanna login and play a few games and be competitive. If gear was removed from the Pvp progression then players could login and play whatever class they liked, whenever they liked and all games would be decided more on skill than it is right now.

    As an example GW2 has normalised PvP and it works very well. Basically everyone who enters a PvP area is changed to lev80 and into the same PvP gear. Therefore all PvP battles r decided by class skill and teamwork, nobody can use the excuse they lost cos they didnt have the right gear.
    Last edited by Endemonadia; 2013-01-13 at 01:24 PM.

  2. #42
    Gear normalization in PvP would be one of the only things that would make me play pvp seriously. Grinding PvE gear and PvP gear is just so f***ing boring...

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by mswhiskerson View Post
    I am just wondering if collecting gear, or character progression is a big factor for those that are into competitive PvP?
    For some, it is.

    Is this something PvPers would like to see in some shape or form, or do you think it would lead to a bigger divide between PvPers and PvEers? Jealousy that PvEers get to progress their gear through raiding?
    Personally, my opinion is that the gear grind has a place within PvE. It serves a purpose. It allows Blizzard to make stronger, tougher bosses for players to work towards and it works to make players strong enough to face that new challenge.

    For PvP, however, the gear grind is detrimental. It puts into place a reward for continued play but in doing so adds an element that contributes hugely to PvP imbalances, deters players from taking part and limits the scope for Blizzard to integrate PvP into the game world. It acts as a substitute for skill and can create a steamroller effect where success in PvP makes you stronger and more certain to win in subsequent matches making you stronger still.

    Other rewards apart from gear can be put into place. Time spent in PvP can still end up with a reward other than gear. Correcting imbalances in aspects of the game is a good thing.

    Stat normalisation would shift the emphasis more onto player skill and experience. That will come only at the cost of the feeling of power at being able to 1 or 2 shot many players due to gear or level.

    I, personally, would consider this a good thing for the game and the state of PvP. I think it would encourage more players to take part, I think it would revitalise world PvP, I think it would do wonders for BG queues, I think it would reduce the level of anti-social behavior and rewards can be provided to provide whatever incentive is needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raldazzar View Post
    i dont do pve, why should some hardcore raider get to come in and match my gear in an instant? can i do that in pve??
    Yes. PVP gear has long been a shortcut into PvE

    sure its hard. its pvp. the only way this would work is if random bgs were fixed so you had an MMR. i.e.. keep me away from all the pve baddies because I want to PVP...not wait around to lose because the team cant handle unscripted events..
    Point about Random BGs is that they are random. If you don't want to fight with or against PvE players, don't use them.

    this idea had good intentions but brings nothing to the table..
    Except a level PvP playing field, greater degree of gameplay balance, better mechanics, lowered barrier to entry and so on.

    gear is a reward, same as in pve.
    But doesn't have to be the only reward. Besides, I'd prefer to reward players for being good at PvP than simply because they play a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deleth View Post
    How would gear normalisation benefit PvP or PvPers? Wait, right, it wouldn't. It would only help those PvE people trying to grab some achievments and rewards up to the middle range without having to put in any kind of effort while further devalue PvP turning it into an sideshow to PvE.
    Are you saying skill, experience, class knowledge plays no role in WoWs PvP? That it all relies on gear and the only way PvPers can win is by outgearing their opponents? That PvP does not exist and it is, in fact, GearScore vs GearScore?

    As far as I can see, gear and stat normalisation woudl offer numerous advantages to the games PvP system. The only question would be 1:is having the ability to one shot other players is so important to some players that losing it would cause them to quit and 2: can Blizzrad put into place a reward and incentivisation system to replace gear progression?

    EJL

  4. #44
    Field Marshal Nickghost's Avatar
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    The scaling with gear is just messed up. I think gear should be a reward, just not with such an advantage but I can understand why thats not easy to fix.

  5. #45
    they should just make like swtor did in the bracketts 10-49 make every ones stats the same no matter gear or lvl =P that gear wouldent matter, ilvl wouldent matter and everyone would be happy

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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Raldazzar View Post
    hell no.

    i dont do pve, why should some hardcore raider get to come in and match my gear in an instant? can i do that in pve??

    sure its hard. its pvp. the only way this would work is if random bgs were fixed so you had an MMR. i.e.. keep me away from all the pve baddies because I want to PVP...not wait around to lose because the team cant handle unscripted events..

    this idea had good intentions but brings nothing to the table.. gear is a reward, same as in pve.
    Basically this. The gear normalization trends are started by the PvErs who don't want to put in the time/effort like PvPers have to for PvE.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Draknalor186 View Post
    they should just make like swtor did in the bracketts 10-49 make every ones stats the same no matter gear or lvl =P that gear wouldent matter, ilvl wouldent matter and everyone would be happy
    That isn't at all how that pvp system works. The buff they give you, bolster, improves the stats you currently have it does not normalize gear. Getting our solutions from one of the more broken pvp games seems like a fairly poor choice also.
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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by mswhiskerson View Post
    I'm not a PvPer myself, at least not competitive. I sometimes do random BGs for something to do, but never got into arenas or rated BGs.

    I am just wondering if collecting gear, or character progression is a big factor for those that are into competitive PvP?

    I see a lot of complaints about gear disparity being incredibly difficult to overcome. RBGs giving easier points and more gear. Missing out on playing for the first few weeks being almost impossible to catch up. And so on.

    Would gear normalisation be a possible solution if character progression isn't as important as *balanced (obviously not including class balance issues) combat?

    Obviously PvPers would need rewarding in some other way if they aren't getting gear for their increase in rating. Spending just a couple of minutes thinking about it would transmog options be something you'd be interested in, additional titles or vanity items? Or can you think of another more suitable reward?

    Is this something PvPers would like to see in some shape or form, or do you think it would lead to a bigger divide between PvPers and PvEers? Jealousy that PvEers get to progress their gear through raiding?

    Your thoughts please.
    I like the fact that the T2 weapon has slightly higher stats becuase it makes you feel so powerful, dat feeling.

  9. #49
    The difference between PVE and PVP is bosses get easier as time goes by in PVP, while other players just get more geared to the teeth. There needs to be something to even the divide some.

    PVP should be about skill more than gear, even if gear is a huge part. The only reason I can think for anyone to actually disagree with this is because they're a bad with a lot of time on their hands, and killing undergeared players makes them feel like they have a big 'greatsword'.
    Last edited by Lightfist; 2013-01-14 at 01:57 PM.
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  10. #50
    How Blizzard expects people to play alts or bring in friends to play PvP in this game is a mystery. Apparently they don't like people playing alts or bringing friends.

  11. #51
    Sure... lets give everyone free honor gear next season that will be superior to the current lfr gear.
    Something tells me this is not going to happen...
    why would that matter? if gear is normalised for PvP all you need is a few basic stats and PvP gear will never, ever be as good as PvE for PvE you loose too many stats.

    if gear was normalised you could just have sets made for Transmogs and extra pets or something with QP no need for actual ''gear'' upgrades i dunno normalization would work definatly, no reason for it not too its just blizz will never do it as WoW isnt built on those foundations.

  12. #52
    It would probably work very well, if it was offered as an alternative for random BGs to prevent RBG/arena veterans from dominating the players that are gearing up.

    It might also work for a pure skill based alternative RBG type.

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