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  1. #41
    I get confused with these kind of notes, so are these changes in addition to the already announced changes? i.e we still get +50 energy and ST has ranged autos? or is all that reverted now?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Raldazzar View Post
    I get confused with these kind of notes, so are these changes in addition to the already announced changes? i.e we still get +50 energy and ST has ranged autos? or is all that reverted now?

    They're buff still live on ptr as of right now.

  3. #43
    Legendary! Luko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enhshamanlol View Post
    I didn't really like hit and run when I played around with it. Maybe for a quickie burst on someone then port back not to get shit on, Maybe but purely from pve standpoint, I didn't care for it
    I think we're looking at this from two different points of view. I'm at the point with this game that efficiency is the last thing on my mind. Hit and Run was fun. Nothing else we have is very fun.

    I understand that we're excited about changes and additions but it was only a few days ago that we were filling these forums with talks of a flashier rogue, a rogue that was fun to play, not just one who put out better numbers. Not saying that's what you're implying... just a friendly reminder to the readers.
    Listen kiddos, trust Handsome Jack. You want every part of this insanity.
    So many people are gonna die.

    Formerly Ryngo Blackratchet

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryngo Blackratchet View Post
    I think we're looking at this from two different points of view. I'm at the point with this game that efficiency is the last thing on my mind. Hit and Run was fun. Nothing else we have is very fun.

    I understand that we're excited about changes and additions but it was only a few days ago that we were filling these forums with talks of a flashier rogue, a rogue that was fun to play, not just one who put out better numbers. Not saying that's what you're implying... just a friendly reminder to the readers.
    Yeah, I know, I just didn't find hit and run fun for myself. Shadowstep is still nicer

  5. #45
    The Patient Mousa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoodrogue View Post
    It shouldn't reduce energy regen at all anymore...
    That's the cost of using it!
    Ridiculous this is... Yes, something very ridiculous is happening in here!

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyndren View Post
    I would love to hear some ideas for cloak and dagger because to me it seems too restricting. Didn't expect it to share the ShS tier.
    I see this being used to chase down low health targets which are trying to kite you. Just pop Dance and cheap stun them and finish them off. Also a saving grace for non-US players with latency problems. But yea, pretty much only appealing to Sub spec.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by bzhai View Post
    I see this being used to chase down low health targets which are trying to kite you. Just pop Dance and cheap stun them and finish them off. Also a saving grace for non-US players with latency problems. But yea, pretty much only appealing to Sub spec.
    ShS + ShD would still be better. The new BoS will be very nice.

    I just don't get why they replaced one awful talent with another one.

  8. #48
    I'll prolly stick to Shs, now if ShS becomes baseline and they implement hit and run + cloak and dagger then I will prolly often change my spec to what is best for a situation...now I never spec out of ShS...

    Just hope they would do that, I guess prep baseline is already very nice.

    I'm hoping they buff BF a little bit more, the recent buff isnt bad, but still feels a bit meh to blow 20% energy nerf on.

  9. #49
    Its funny to see how rogue first has been gutted since Cata and now every spec gets everything and plays the same... and the price for that seems to be, that we become autoattack bots.

  10. #50
    Blademaster sayewonn's Avatar
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    newest blue post, the next PTR build Blade Flurry will do 40% normal damage up to 4 additional targets. Also we assumed correctly with the two piece set bonus, it works with all finishers that have a duration, including kidney shot and recuperate.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by sayewonn View Post
    newest blue post, the next PTR build Blade Flurry will do 40% normal damage up to 4 additional targets. Also we assumed correctly with the two piece set bonus, it works with all finishers that have a duration, including kidney shot and recuperate.
    so its not 25% anymore instead 40% ? sounds great to me somehow Ö_ö now lower energyregen penalty by 5% more and everythings good
    the ultimate answer's to all rogue issues :

    -Rogues might still be dealing with the changes to combo points {2014}

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by sayewonn View Post
    newest blue post, the next PTR build Blade Flurry will do 40% normal damage up to 4 additional targets. Also we assumed correctly with the two piece set bonus, it works with all finishers that have a duration, including kidney shot and recuperate.
    Would like a link for that - anyway a predictable move, nerfing BF to 25% would have made it literally useless.

    As for set bonus, i now assume that it works with SnD, Rupture, Envenom (the buff), Recuperate and KS. Well, even if it didn't include KS and Recup anything would have changed - basically more time between Rup/SnD refresh to dish ou additional Eviscerates; for assa it will be even more passive due to SnD automatic refresh and slower gameplay due to to more pooling because of the longer envenom buff.

    Don't like much these set bonuses.

  13. #53
    Immortal Ryme's Avatar
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    Tin foil hat time: Perhaps they're intentionally geared toward sub pve with slight improvements to pvp to get more people playing sub so less people go to raid bots and think it's a terrible spec.
    I am the lucid dream
    Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh


  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryme View Post
    Tin foil hat time: Perhaps they're intentionally geared toward sub pve with slight improvements to pvp to get more people playing sub so less people go to raid bots and think it's a terrible spec.
    They'll have to do a lot more than 4% sv buff to get more people to play sub pve.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by wow View Post
    They'll have to do a lot more than 4% sv buff to get more people to play sub pve.

    It's more than the 4% buff. It's the set bonus in t15 and the fact you're geting more stats like haste crit and mastery that all scale VERY well with sub that makes it looks good.

  16. #56
    Yea its super the nerf ofc, but still after they killed this class in every possible and impossible way, its really perfection that the regen is dead and in case u activate bf u get the punishment 20% regen kill? yea right i will surely use that non stop, i will even let the bf active all my life mhmmm. Sub looks good but we see it live

  17. #57
    The Unstoppable Force N-aix's Avatar
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    Are you all not awake? Like dayum here's the new updates and you too pvE rogues aka Kevin kekeke

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Rogue (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)

    During Shuriken Toss, your auto attacks are replaced with throwing Shurikens, which do 80% weapon damage, but are on the 'yellow combat table', meaning they don't glance, and don't suffer the Dual Wield miss penalty. The 80% number was chosen because that approximately offsets those other benefits.
    In our above description of Blade Flurry, 'normal' means the same as it previously did; that is to say, the damage that the ability would have done had it hit the secondary target.
    The 2pc does encourage using Rupture as Combat.
    Burst of Speed saying "movement-reducing" means that it no longer breaks roots, but does break snares.
    We are experimenting with allowing Smoke Bomb to reduce the damage done to allies by 20%. We agree that rogues are lacking in the group utility department and we'd like to see less use of Smoke Bomb strictly as an offensive ability in PvP.
    We are going to reduce the PvP set bonus from +50 energy to +30 energy.
    As long as ST isn't being nerfed I'm fine with it as I'm going TO BE A THROW ROGUE IN BG'S like Reckful that was hilarious hahaha ahhh good times. No but really the amount of whining of ST is just funny as hell on their forum anyway.

  18. #58
    I personally believe that the ST change will result in it being a buff, but I think we'll need a sim to be sure.

    On live you have like a +19% miss chance. Assuming you are yellow hit capped and your autoattack would be 100, you would expect 81 damage on average. But wait! 20% of your hits glance or so, and when they glance it is for 75% of normal damage. Since white attacks are just one hit table, you would expect that there would be 19 spots for a miss, 20 spots for a glance, and lets just say your crit rate is 22%, so you have 22 spots for a crit, and the remaining 39 spots are normal hit.
    0 x .19 = 0
    75 x .20 = 15
    200 x .22 = 44
    100 x .39 = 39
    ------ > 98
    ...and 81 of these hits can proc deadly poison and combat potency. For sub and combat, that's 24.3 DP procs, for muti, 40.5. CP I think has 8.57 ppm (I think it was given a value assuming those old 1.4 daggers, and it now scales). In any event, lets go ahead and assume a 28% chance- the value doesn't matter too much here as long as it is ballpark. That means that combat gets 22.68 procs.

    Ok, that's your white table. Now lets do it as yellow attacks... There's no misses and no glances. These add to the "regular hit" table, enlarging it (or it might push it to a two roll system, but it's the same results in this case). But each attack is weaker- 80 for regular and 160 for a crit.
    Yielding:
    160 x .22 = 35.2
    80 x .78 = 62.4
    -------> 97.6
    So baseline ST will lose us .04% of autoattack damage, a loss but a trivial one. As GC said, the number was chosen to equal that out, and it does- at least at today's crit levels.

    However C and S are looking at 30 deadly poison procs instead of 24.3. Assassination is looking at 50 instead of 40.5. And C gets 28 energy hits instead of 22.68. I'm pretty sure these weapon procs will push shuriken throw auto attacks ahead of regular- but remember another cost of ST is ST itself instead of using that energy for a more damaging melee attack.

    Net result - I think we'll need a sim, because if this ends up being a gain, which looks likely, it will be a small one- and probably less than MfD or Anticipation, but who knows yet!

    I think it would be interesting if you could perceive a small gain over Anticipation by maintaining the ST buff on expiry through extra autoattack procs.

    EDIT: Assume it is late in a tier, or you stack crit for some reason, and you have a 40% crit rate. In that case the white attack number becomes 116, and the yellow hit 80% number becomes 112- so as crit goes up, the yellow number gets smaller than the white number.
    Last edited by Verain; 2013-01-12 at 05:43 PM.

  19. #59
    Verain: You definitely do not want to ST weave in PvE. You only get the replacement autoattacks if you cast ST from 10+yd. If you cast ST in melee range, you just get the ST yellow attack and no autoattack-replacement buff.

    ST weaving would mean stepping away to cast it, and that would negate any benefit you gain from the yellow-hit autoattacks.
    Last edited by shadowboy; 2013-01-13 at 01:47 AM.

  20. #60
    Welp, fuck all that noise then. Thanks, nothing about that in the tooltip.

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