[Resto] Overhealing Shrooms

[Deleted]

Came back from ptr just now .

Max healing stored (also check all of our heals in case something else besides rejuv helps our overhealing stacking) was 125k . No other heals helped the stacking so the tooltip was correct so far. I placed them further than 8 yards and as long as i had the rejuv active (on myself) the stacking was happening . If i remember correctly they were placed around 25 yards. So its 3 heals of 125k each on me which seems good . I could't test on a raid enviroment since lfr is not working and no raid was happening (also had dc every 5mins). Mushrooms dont grow besides 1 which when filled is glowing and becoming slightly bigger than others. Reaching 125k - stacking limit- happend quite fast (perhaps due to me being on full health and the overheal). So far i still dont believe its the solution to make us competitive but at least they are more powerful now.

p.s. other abilities did't seem to work e.g. cenarion ward and most tooltips havent change.

[Dendrek]

Have you tried moving more than 40 yards from your mushrooms and seeing if they are getting heal stacks?

---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 03:34 AM ----------

It may also be worth moving to 100 yards (assuming they don't disappear at that distance). If they do have a tight range limitation (to even absorb overheals) then they may prove useless on some encounters.

[Deleted]

I've seen a lot of discussion on the US forums about the new healing shrooms in 5.2. There are things I like, and things that I don't think will work.

PROS
- Making use of Rejuv overhealing. As a mainly HOTs class, we inevitably overheal. It's nice that it will now count for something
- Attempt to give us some form of burst healing. We are severely lacking in this area, especially when compared to other healing classes

CONS
- Mushrooms remain a stationary mechanic, Small radius, and will take considerable ramp up time.

- Overhealing by rejuv will be encouraged. For those druids that try to minimize overhealing, this new mechanic will feel horrible UNLESS it takes into consideration another source of overhealing (such as that from lifebloom). It would suck to want to cast a rejuv on a full HP player just to get shrooms ready for a large burst of damage.

What many druids are begging for is an absorb in order to compete.

MY THOUGHTS:-

1) (Utilize overhealing) I would like to utilize our overhealing from rejuvenation to create our living seed on the target when rejuv overheals. It's a familiar mechanic, it's beneficial, and makes us not feel so horrible when hots are sniped.

2) (Burst healing) Let the mushrooms 'grow' on the druid. You run around with three mushrooms on yourself. They grow with time, up to a max of whatever over 1.5 mins or whatever. (I know this will be unpopular, but I like the idea of a ramp up time for the spell). When burst healing is required, you detonate the shrooms healing targets within 20 yards of yourself. Still somewhat positional, but much more controllable (you can run into melee etc). Still has ramp up time, but you won't be penalized if your raid has moved to the other side of the room while your shrooms were growing.

Despite the above, I also play a 90 disc priest and 90 holy pala. And as much as I love disc priest (and I do love them), for any of the above changes to make any impact, either spirit shell needs to be put on a 1.5min CD, or the cap of the absorb needs to be slightly reduced.

It's too much for too little effort on too short a cooldown imo. I hate asking for nerfs for anyone, but I think any self-respecting disc priest knows that in terms of balance it's just too strong. Sure just look at the logs to see how much of a disc priests total healing is done purely by spirit shell!

On a happier note, I think the above two changes would help with giving us some utilization to our overhealing as well as a meaningful burst cooldown. (the shroom spell doesn't need a cooldown as the 'grow with time' mechanic effectively lets you decide the cooldown).

And a word to Blizz, all healers know that meters do not reflect your contribution to a raid. We know this. Unforunately, we judge performance a lot of the times by looking at the heal meters. It's kinda like challenge dungeon gear - it's used by raiders as a marker of the skillfullness of the healer. When we are bottom of the meters with also the most overhealing done, we look like weak, unskillful players. Healing as a resto druid is starting to no longer be fun. Please do fix us.
Like I said, we know that healing meters don't show contribution, but they are used by the community to show skill. And while I'm trying to heal my butt off for incoming damage, frantically pressing heals, the disc priest in my raid just clicks spirit shell, and then PoH twice and boom, he's at the top of the meters, least overhealing, all my HOTs are wasted, I'm top overhealer and it just does not feel fun.

My two cents.

[Lleaff]

The issue is that the mushrooms will not absorb 75% of overheal with no max. ONce they're charged any further overheal is again wasted. Once full, they'll heal for, at most, an amount equal to your hp and that is a) assuming you pop all three and b) the heal amount will be split among everyone in range.

I understand this, thus why I calculated for only 2/3rds of the potential buff to mushrooms. TBH once I know the 5.2 encounters well enough I can see a regularly higher % of the overall rejuv OH not being wasted as positioning and damage become easier to predict. I can see mushrooms being a bit more rotational in 25's due to the high number of melee generally having a set stack point for each phase or mechanic. Moderate raid damage would warrant the use of shrooms and they would be quite potent if fully charged.

However for 10 mans it will be a little more situational. That being said though it comes close to an extra CD for 10s.

[Beastest]

The new mechanic Should actually be an okish change for the first 5 in vaults + Windlord + Lei shi and maybe tsulong I doubt anything terribly big but every little bit helps and we will see about the 5.2 raid

[Deleted]

Range : To detonate you need to be around 25 yards max distance but What i found amazing is that i plant mushrooms outside the panda city and i was inside ;out of range and out of sight and the rejuv on myself was still putting healing on mushrooms. So the mushrooms "healing stacking" ignores out of range and sight

[kleathead01]

MY THOUGHTS:-

1) (Utilize overhealing) I would like to utilize our overhealing from rejuvenation to create our living seed on the target when rejuv overheals. It's a familiar mechanic, it's beneficial, and makes us not feel so horrible when hots are sniped.

2) (Burst healing) Let the mushrooms 'grow' on the druid. You run around with three mushrooms on yourself. They grow with time, up to a max of whatever over 1.5 mins or whatever. (I know this will be unpopular, but I like the idea of a ramp up time for the spell). When burst healing is required, you detonate the shrooms healing targets within 20 yards of yourself. Still somewhat positional, but much more controllable (you can run into melee etc). Still has ramp up time, but you won't be penalized if your raid has moved to the other side of the room while your shrooms were growing.

I really like this idea of having the mushrooms 'grow' on the druid, as well. This would fix the shrooms mobility issues and allow for them to have some utility during an encounter that requires constant movement. This idea would also fix another HUGE issue with the spell currently, which is the 3 GCDs required to even get set up. During lulls in damage its not much to waste 3 GCDs placing these mushrooms, however in Heroics (basing my assumption off videos) there do not appear to be very many efficient opportunities to place these.

If Blizz is determined to keep the concept of placing these mushrooms on the ground, another idea is to introduce a similar mechanic used when switching lifebloom between targets. Once the player has placed the 3 mushrooms, casting 'wild mushroom' again would move the 3 mushrooms to new location specified. This would allow for a little more mobility in the spell for encounters where the raid has to move a lot. It doesn't really address the issue of using 3 GCDs to set up, but at least it better accounts for the spells current mobility issues.

Or why not have ONE mushroom? why 3? what was the reasoning behind that in the first place?

Regardless, I think most people would agree that either the range of the bloom needs to be increased or there needs to be an animation included that is apparent to other players in the raid. (Potentially both IMO)

Overall I like the idea of turing our overheals into some kind of a heal, but I dont think the spell is close to where it will effective.

[Deleted]

Blizz are going about this all wrong!

First they are starting to encourage us to now overheal (waste mana and efficiency) to buff a spell that needs 3 secs to get ready and *pray* that your raid have not moved by the time you have overhealed enough.

Quote:
''We actually want Disc to get back to using PW:Shield a little more, along with Penance. Disc's throughput is overall too strong in PvE, not even counting the fact that absorbs are often more beneficial than heals.''

Absorbs are more beneficial, we have a pseudo-absorb via Living Seed from regrowth crits, let our overheals from rejuvenation create a Living Seed.

Don't remove the Divine Aegis from PoH for disc, they are supposed to be about shielding, remove the heal part of the spell instead.


It all seems backwards.

[earthwormjim]

Blizz are going about this all wrong!

First they are starting to encourage us to now overheal (waste mana and efficiency) to buff a spell that needs 3 secs to get ready and *pray* that your raid have not moved by the time you have overhealed enough.

Quote:
''We actually want Disc to get back to using PW:Shield a little more, along with Penance. Disc's throughput is overall too strong in PvE, not even counting the fact that absorbs are often more beneficial than heals.''

Absorbs are more beneficial, we have a pseudo-absorb via Living Seed from regrowth crits, let our overheals from rejuvenation create a Living Seed.

Don't remove the Divine Aegis from PoH for disc, they are supposed to be about shielding, remove the heal part of the spell instead.


It all seems backwards.

There's hardly any encouragement to overheal like crazy, the mushrooms will easily fill up just from maintaining rejuve on the tanks.

You people are thinking about these mushrooms in the wrong way. They're not intended to be used in our rotation, they're more akin to revival.

This is one of the best changes they've made to resto druids, and all I see is crying in this thread. Coupled with the 10% healing buff we're getting too, 5.2 is going to be a great patch.

[halfawake]

Try them out guys and girls... They are actually pretty awesome. You can charge them pre fight and get a stack point for a very decent mini cd. Even if you only use it once or twice a fight they are noticeable (maybe too noticeable at this point, they get BIG) and heal for a pretty decent amount (on one person in the raid with 517 upranked gear each shroom was healing for 180k non crit, when they all crit you could get up to 1 million healing on one person). Sure thats a bit less on 10 or 25 people but you don't have to use them on everyone. Say you're doing heroic Vizier 10 man and the shrooms can reach 2 groups for force and verve or 6 people, you can get up to a 166k heal on each person instantly (minimum 83k heal) which really is not too shabby. It's peanuts, it's free, enjoy it.

[Deleted]

I don't really like the whole mushrooms thing, but I like the idea someone else mentioned that rejuv overhealing should create a living seed, maybe that's the way to go: expand on the living seeds mechanic.

[clevin]

Try them out guys and girls... They are actually pretty awesome. You can charge them pre fight and get a stack point for a very decent mini cd. Even if you only use it once or twice a fight they are noticeable (maybe too noticeable at this point, they get BIG) and heal for a pretty decent amount (on one person in the raid with 517 upranked gear each shroom was healing for 180k non crit, when they all crit you could get up to 1 million healing on one person). Sure thats a bit less on 10 or 25 people but you don't have to use them on everyone. Say you're doing heroic Vizier 10 man and the shrooms can reach 2 groups for force and verve or 6 people, you can get up to a 166k heal on each person instantly (minimum 83k heal) which really is not too shabby. It's peanuts, it's free, enjoy it.

PTR is broken. Read above http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...7#post19792957) - the live change is intended to have the heal be equal to the druid's HP. They're not going live with the ability to do 1 million healing...

The issue for me is whether this change is intended to be a nice buff to the utility of mushrooms or a major buff to resto healing that fixes us in comparison to other healers. If it's just a nice buff then this is a fine change. Not rock-my-world great, but it's pretty nice. If it was intended to be THE new tool that brings us on par with other healers, it's not good.

Since this thread was active more has happened and I think the disc changes, the 10% overall buff and this should put us smack in the middle of healers.... Disc drops back from the OP state it's been in, we move up a bit and voila, it's all good again. No, we don't move from iffy to OP but that's fine with me.

[Elysara]

i don't like the mushroom mechanic.

I don't like them either...they feel clunky..I am trying to use them as of right now to get used to them in 5.2 but.....So clunky, Never liked em

They should have just given us a mushroom shield or something...Acts like watershield and gives us mana.

Or should have done something different...Up until the 5.2 PTR I never even USED mushrooms...I have enough spells/abilites and macros on my action bars...Almost have no room left

[earthwormjim]

PTR is broken. Read above http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...7#post19792957) - the live change is intended to have the heal be equal to the druid's HP. They're not going live with the ability to do 1 million healing...

The issue for me is whether this change is intended to be a nice buff to the utility of mushrooms or a major buff to resto healing that fixes us in comparison to other healers. If it's just a nice buff then this is a fine change. Not rock-my-world great, but it's pretty nice. If it was intended to be THE new tool that brings us on par with other healers, it's not good.

Since this thread was active more has happened and I think the disc changes, the 10% overall buff and this should put us smack in the middle of healers.... Disc drops back from the OP state it's been in, we move up a bit and voila, it's all good again. No, we don't move from iffy to OP but that's fine with me.

So they'll be close to revival in terms of healing output. Roughly 450-500k added to the 150-160k they do now, for a total around 720k or so (10% healing buff). If you pop them with tree form and nature's vigil, they'll be around 900k. That's pretty good for an ability that makes use of down time, the overhealing you do anyway, and the actual trigger is not on the GCD.

Check my math though:

mushrooms = (3 mushrooms)*(6 target cap)*[2445 + .207*(30,000 SP)] + (Flat 500k health bonus)

I don't like them either...they feel clunky..I am trying to use them as of right now to get used to them in 5.2 but.....So clunky, Never liked em

They should have just given us a mushroom shield or something...Acts like watershield and gives us mana.

Or should have done something different...Up until the 5.2 PTR I never even USED mushrooms...I have enough spells/abilites and macros on my action bars...Almost have no room left

I don't really see how they're clunky. They're not designed to be essential to our main rotation. Lay them down pre-fight, and when you have down time. Every fight this tier has some down time, enough for your to spend 3 gcds.

What's wrong with interesting mechanics, there's actual thought and planning involved with mushrooms. You need to know when and where your raid will be, and you need to judge downtime too for laying them down. That takes a bit more skill than some passive shield mechanic that was suggested earlier.

Some fights where they're actually useful now, and I actually do use them myself, even with their crappy output:

-Heroic Vizier, lay them down for attenuation on the opposite side of your raid so as you run if any of your special ed guildies get hit, you can heal them without even having to target them. Since it's only 1 or 2 people derping, it'll heal them for enough to survive maybe one more hit. On the mind control platform, lay them down when the raid is stacked, then just bloom them the instant people get MC'd. I've saved a couple people from being globaled with that. They're also useful for Force and Verve. Lay them down 5 yards behind Vizier, you'll usually be able to cover 2-3 bubbles.

-Heroic Feng has pretty big down time in phase one. Cast them in the middle of the room for the big AOE that he does. GCD'less 160k heal is always a nice plus.

-Heroic Bladelord, cast 3 mushrooms when you're running to the stack point for unseen strike, then bloom them the instant the strike goes out. You can also pre-position some mushrooms either in the running path or at one of the ends of the room for the last phase, when you have some down time during phase 1.

-Heroic Windlord, you can at least heal the melee during rain of blades with mushrooms. There isn't a whole lot of downtime on that fight though to make it truly worthwhile with the current output they do now. In 5.2 it'll be worth it.

[Elysara]

I don't really see how they're clunky. They're not designed to be essential to our main rotation. Lay them down pre-fight, and when you have down time. Every fight this tier has some down time, enough for your to spend 3 gcds.

What's wrong with interesting mechanics, there's actual thought and planning involved with mushrooms. You need to know when and where your raid will be, and you need to judge downtime too for laying them down. That takes a bit more skill than some passive shield mechanic that was suggested earlier.

Some fights where they're actually useful now, and I actually do use them myself, even with their crappy output:

-Heroic Vizier, lay them down for attenuation on the opposite side of your raid so as you run if any of your special ed guildies get hit, you can heal them without even having to target them. Since it's only 1 or 2 people derping, it'll heal them for enough to survive maybe one more hit. On the mind control platform, lay them down when the raid is stacked, then just bloom them the instant people get MC'd. I've saved a couple people from being globaled with that. They're also useful for Force and Verve. Lay them down 5 yards behind Vizier, you'll usually be able to cover 2-3 bubbles.

-Heroic Feng has pretty big down time in phase one. Cast them in the middle of the room for the big AOE that he does. GCD'less 160k heal is always a nice plus.

-Heroic Bladelord, cast 3 mushrooms when you're running to the stack point for unseen strike, then bloom them the instant the strike goes out. You can also pre-position some mushrooms either in the running path or at one of the ends of the room for the last phase, when you have some down time during phase 1.

-Heroic Windlord, you can at least heal the melee during rain of blades with mushrooms. There isn't a whole lot of downtime on that fight though to make it truly worthwhile with the current output they do now. In 5.2 it'll be worth it.

I understand where you are coming from, But right now they are totally useless. I wouldn't waste my mana on them at all. Not until 5.2

They feel clunky to me because they just require so much, I have to take my eyes off of the raids health for a second to click-plant a mushroom down, And if I accidentally misplace one? Well there goes someone I could have spent time healing. The most I use the mushrooms for right now? Is I just plan 'one' down next to me before a fight starts and explode it as soon as we start to get the Harmony going.

And don't turn the mushrooms into this elitest "I HAVE TO THINK AND USE MY SKILLS TO PLANT THEM DOWN IN STRATEGIC SPOTS" Just...stop....really.

By all means, Stroke your ego if it makes you feel better, But there is no eliteism over placing 'mushrooms'

[Juvenate]

You are going to find Wild Mushroom:Bloom to be significantly more valuable in 5.2, even with the clunky setup. Fully-charged it only takes hitting 25 people with 2 mushrooms to equal 1 Rejuv tick per person. The 3rd shroom pushes it even further equaling out to around 30k total healing per person with 32k Spellpower and a 400k+ health pool. And considering the current ones hit 25 people for a total of 7k per raider? It's now over 4x more powerful.

The other thing to remember is that the bonus healing is split evenly and does not suffer from diminishing returns. For a single target heal you could heal a tank from 1 health to full in one bloom if you hit them with 3 fully-charged shrooms.

[Myzou]

I kind of wish they'd make the spell be like "You implant fungus on the skin of the target." instead of on the ground. >_>

[Abysal]

The other thing to remember is that the bonus healing is split evenly and does not suffer from diminishing returns. For a single target heal you could heal a tank from 1 health to full in one bloom if you hit them with 3 fully-charged shrooms.

This actually might end up being the best use of it. It's far more likely that you'll be able to count on a tank being in a certain location on many fights. Drop them on the tank(s) and just out of range of everyone else and have your own personal Lay on Hands every so often. If your tank is aware and your raid group is organized enough, you might even be able to use this to cheese some mechanics (imagine using a Death Knight's Purgatory with this to absorb an otherwise fatal mechanic)

[clevin]

You are going to find Wild Mushroom:Bloom to be significantly more valuable in 5.2, even with the clunky setup. Fully-charged it only takes hitting 25 people with 2 mushrooms to equal 1 Rejuv tick per person. The 3rd shroom pushes it even further equaling out to around 30k total healing per person with 32k Spellpower and a 400k+ health pool. And considering the current ones hit 25 people for a total of 7k per raider? It's now over 4x more powerful.

The other thing to remember is that the bonus healing is split evenly and does not suffer from diminishing returns. For a single target heal you could heal a tank from 1 health to full in one bloom if you hit them with 3 fully-charged shrooms.

I think what you outlined is precisely why I think this is a nice upgrade to the spell but not some class altering buff. They're now worth placing in the tank group for a burst heal, but split the healing over 10 people or more and it's meh.

[Juri]

I can see these being useful...but on super movement fights like...Garalon for example? energy is better spent just healing someone than ignoring their health and planting down a mushroom