[Resto] Overhealing Shrooms

[insanedruid]

My real question here is this:
(i know its a old thing but still I never understood this part, care to explain? thanks!)(tbh I don't even understand this on live alas on the new ptr... silly retarded mechanic imo)
"Other Wild Mushroom abilities can target these mushrooms for additional effects."
and its no longer just balance and resto... so... maybe this means that guardians and ferals now will have mushrooms to place (but not blow) and we can use them aswell as overhealing recyclers? do we blow ALL the shrooms? do feral/guardian shrooms boost our own?
I don't have time to go on the PTR, anyone can help out? thanks in advance.

Becase casting Wild Mushroom does not do any thing without casting "Other Wild Mushroom abilities" which are "Wild Mushroom: Bloom" or "Wild Mushroom: Detonate" depends on your spec.
So you need to cast other wild mushroom abilities for the mushrooms to do something.. And yes it's still resto/balance only. The charge up thing is only for resto

[mikoslav]

So, how does this actually work, with stacking up?

Irregardless, it seems fairly lackluster on most fights currently. I mean, I *guess* it could be allright for feng, elegon shekzeer, ambershaper, Lei shi and protectors. But the rest of the fights? Too much irregular movement to determine where the group will be in say, 2 minutes.

how about - you place them in 1 spot, and then when raid needs good healing CD they HAVE TO go to this spot for you to bloom them.
This way you dont have to predict anything, you just put them whereever seems to be convenient.

This will be a factor for the raid team to adapt to, and nice healing mechanic to play with, when you have a restodruid in your team.

[Captaincrab]

What you guys think of it? I think it sounds pretty awesome, druids seem to have a high overhealing(maybe if not used wisely) and this will somewhat help us. The only problem I have is if you rejuv is already overhealing why would you need this anyways?

I do not druid hea; that much( I do in lfr and random pvp times) but it seems pretty cool to give them a better use. Now just fix the shrooms for boomkins...

Well it mixes well with the new T15 4pc which has Rejuv ramping up and ticking big on the last ticks.

I'm not 100% sure what I think of them yet. Just wondering if it splashes for 100% of your health, or it even splits for up to your health as maximum. Ill def go mess with them on PTR.

[dancm]

Fellow raiders gonna love the extra minutes before each pull so they can be pre-set and charged to max for early usage on certain fights :-)

Probably below 30s as every rejuv at that time should be 100% overheal.

[insanedruid]

Have you not seen how frequently damage goes out on some heroic fights? Garalon? I would cry tears of joy if our Resto Druid had this kind of on-demand burst healing right now. I honestly think if Blizzard does overheal mushrooms properly, it could rival Spirit Shell.

The first thing in my mind when I read the change was that we got a poor man's spirit shell.
But when I think about it, when will we have 6 raid members stack up without moving in a 10-man raid?
Feng the Acursed? Elegon final phase? and ?
And it can't rival spirit shell. ss is easier to apply, absorbs more then the mushrooms are gonna heal(your HP X3 = 300% , vs 60%X 10 = 600% in 10man for ss)
and it's absorption.

[Lothrik]

The first thing in my mind when I read the change was that we got a poor man's spirit shell.
But when I think about it, when will we have 6 raid members stack up without moving in a 10-man raid?
Feng the Acursed? Elegon final phase? and ?
And it can't rival spirit shell. ss is easier to apply, absorbs more then the mushrooms are gonna heal(your HP X3 = 300% , vs 60%X 10 = 600% in 10man for ss)
and it's absorption.

If you're so bitter about absorbs, reroll. I think it's a good change and I can easily see a use for it on 9/10 of the heroic fights my guild has on farm right now, plus several we haven't even tried yet. On-demand burst healing like this is extremely useful whether or not you want to acknowledge it.

Edit:
Just in case you were wondering, just off the top of my head I can see a use for it on the following fights:
Feng, Gara'jal, Spirit Kings, Elegon, Will of the Emperor, Imperial Vizier, Blade Lord, Garalon, Wind Lord.
I define "a use" as "it could be used to heal people up extremely quickly after high damage, effectively negating the need for a raid cooldown."
I will admit Gara'jal is a bit of a stretch though. You would really only want it for the execute phase, and at that point you're using every cooldown anyway.

Edit 2:
Also laughing at "SS is easier to apply"

Easier than having rejuv overhealing turn into bonus mushroom healing, then clicking Detonate when people are low HP and within range of your shrooms?

Telling people to stack up is so much harder than keeping track of incoming raid damage spikes and building Spirit Shell 15 seconds in advance, keeping an eye on periodic random damage that will make your Spirit Shell absorb less (or none) on specific targets, people just plain going out of range while you're trying to build Spirit Shell up, or just standing in fire so you have to PW:S them to compensate.

So much easier, right? Lol. If you want to talk about easy, look at Devotion Aura. "Is it magic damage? Check. Devotion Aura time!"

[insanedruid]

how about - you place them in 1 spot, and then when raid needs good healing CD they HAVE TO go to this spot for you to bloom them.
This way you dont have to predict anything, you just put them whereever seems to be convenient.

This will be a factor for the raid team to adapt to, and nice healing mechanic to play with, when you have a restodruid in your team.

unnecessary movement = lost of dps. Of course it's an option but the other healer classes just have better options without lossing dps...

[Deleted]

I wouldn't mind if this stacking would increase the heal radius also. Based on the pictures in this topic it doesn't sound unreasonable. Also, we need that radius increase .

[Lothrik]

unnecessary movement = lost of dps. Of course it's an option but the other healer classes just have better options without lossing dps...

Healing Rain can mean "unnecessary movement" too. That doesn't mean Healing Rain is bad, it's anything but.

[Kuniku]

I think the idea is that HoTs often get sniped, perhaps not intentionally, but when I was healing on my druid, often over healing would be high, because other healers wouldnt check if there was a HoT that would get the target back to full within a few seconds (safely ofc) and just see a gap and cast their heal.

Sure in the upper echilons of the raiding world other healers will allow for HoTs to tick, reducing over healing, which, yes, would bring about the discussion - would it then be worth purposefully over healing with rejuve to get the shroom bonus...

But for everyone else, over healing will be high, and this is just an added bonus to reduce that while increasing potential panic buttons =D

[Dendrek]

@insanedruid: That depends on if it's "unnecessary" movement. If the raid is already moving for that fight for various reasons, then they can choose one of those movement mechanics to move to the shrooms rather than to whatever other random place they would have gone to. If the raid already knows when the "bloom CD" is coming up, they can plan accordingly. Of course it requires slightly more concentration from the raid, but the reality is that most times a predictable raid CD is needed, the raid is already forced to react to it by stacking up.

[insanedruid]

If you're so bitter about absorbs, reroll. I think it's a good change and I can easily see a use for it on 9/10 of the heroic fights my guild has on farm right now, plus several we haven't even tried yet. On-demand burst healing like this is extremely useful whether or not you want to acknowledge it.

Not being absorption is fine. But the movement required makes it hard to be useful. Maybe you are raiding 25-man so you can have your shrooms hit 5+ targets easily. But how about 10-man?

I'm not saying that a burst heal is not useful, but we are already doing well when the raid is stacked up.
I would prefer having a change that improve our weakness to a change that improve the area we are already good enough at.

[Themessiah]

I'm not even playing main spec resto at the momement (bear/cat atm), but I have to admit my excitement at this change/line of thought from Bliz. I'm also curious as to the mechanics behind how the charging and healing distribution works.

[Daerio]

I can't say I'm a fan of the "charge-up" idea in that you have to predict possibly 1-3 minutes in advance where your raid is going to be. Obviously, for some stationary fights this is meaningless... but most of the fights are too mobile for this.

There certainly isn't any other player mechanic in the game where you have to predict a location 1-3 minutes in advance. I hope they decide to maybe make this a buff on the player rather than the mushrooms to make it more mobile, or some other similar change. Also, for the healing rain comparison - I think that's a pretty poor comparison to make.

Lastly, I wish they would buff moonkin mushrooms, which are also fairly useless.

[Lothrik]

Not being absorption is fine. But the movement required makes it hard to be useful. Maybe you are raiding 25-man so you can have your shrooms hit 5+ targets easily. But how about 10-man?

I'm not saying that a burst heal is not useful, but we are already doing well when the raid is stacked up.
I would prefer having a change that improve our weakness to a change that improve the area we are already good enough at.

I'm raiding 10M. Asking your raiders to get within 8 yards of something is not a difficult task by any stretch of the imagination, and I probably did it 20-30 times last night successfully. Stack on X now! => 3 seconds later, entire raid is on X.

I also want to point out that this is pretty hard to play off as stack healing. Healing Rain is stack healing. Efflorescence is stack healing. Mushroom Detonate is burst healing, and then people can immediately scatter if need be.

Obviously, for some stationary fights this is meaningless... but most of the fights are too mobile for this.

How many fights do you use raid markers on? Congrats, you have a lot of fights where you know in advance where people are going to stack, and probably need burst healing.

I guess I should clarify -- I'm kind of bitter about all the Resto Druids complaining about this. I would kill for this sort of mechanic as a Disc Priest, it's a pain in the ass for me to heal people on demand like that. Don't underestimate how strong this is just because you don't think your raid needs it.

[insanedruid]

Healing Rain can mean "unnecessary movement" too. That doesn't mean Healing Rain is bad, it's anything but.

Sure shrooms will be fine if they have the larger radius.

[Lothrik]

Sure shrooms will be fine if they have the larger radius.

.. Please clarify? I'm under the impression Shrooms are 8 yards. Healing Rain is 10 yards. Does 2 yards really make a world of difference here?

[insanedruid]

.. Please clarify? I'm under the impression Shrooms are 8 yards. Healing Rain is 10 yards. Does 2 yards really make a world of difference here?

56% increase in area

[Daerio]

I guess I should clarify -- I'm kind of bitter about all the Resto Druids complaining about this. I would kill for this sort of mechanic as a Disc Priest, it's a pain in the ass for me to heal people on demand like that. Don't underestimate how strong this is just because you don't think your raid needs it.

I'm feeling some bias here. Do you know what spirit shell is?

[Lothrik]

56% increase in area

I wasn't aware anyone actually quantified their AoE healing in area, but alright.

For the record, Holy Word: Sanctuary is 8 yards too, people don't seem to have any problem stacking in that.

I'm feeling some bias here. Do you know what spirit shell is?

Yup. Used it at least 150 times last night. Absorbs are not burst healing. You can't reasonably predict all the random damage people will take. It's not unreasonable that I would be envious of a burst healing spell that encourages people to stack and only requires me to overheal.