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  1. #41
    Don't make this game a pure mathematical spreadsheet where you just state that tier bonus simply give you X damage and you don't think about anything more.

    The fun and flavor aspect is also important and this set bonusses seem realy cool to see in work. At least you WILL notice when they proc making them feel like another adition to your arsenal.


    Set bonus like "gives your serpent sting 5% more damage" are absolutely boring and nothing more than math. Set bonus like this ones we're discussing in this thread are realy cool to have.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Bovan View Post
    I beg to differ. Our whole theme and niche is summoning pets and controlling powerful beasts to aid us in combat. Granted I wouldn't complain if we get a petless spec someday but pets are beasts are our thing. I don't know what 10 pets and nothing doing high damage have to do with eachother. At the end of the day this hawk is just going to account for a few hits of a certain amount of damage. Just because we suddenly get another guardian companion doesn't mean our damage is suddenly going to be lower. A Mage doing 10k frostbolts every 2 seconds and a Hunter summoning 10 pets that do 1k damage each every 2 seconds isn't suddenly going to make Hunters very weak.

    You have a point about the fishing for procs or us not caring about it thing. But that's a mechanic related complaint. Something I actually agreed with. The theme and nature of the set bonus have nothing to do with that.

    The heal from the Disengage glyph isn't going to force you to use it on cooldown either. It's merely an extra little heal in case you decide the glyph is worth it. It doesn't sudden;y make you a healer who needs to keep himself alive by spamming Disengage.
    I'm sorry man but every time you say that is our theme makes me cringe. Yes we have a pet but only recently did they add more to our so call pet "theme" (stampede and dire beast). Both stampede and dire beasts are a pain because of travel time when you switch targets.

    I'm sure I am not the only one that hates pets because of the micro managing and all the terrible pathing and AI pets have. This is my one and only complaint with pets in this game. When I read our these set bonuses I sunk down in my chair and was completely disappointed. Not just because it was yet another summoned pet that probably will be implemented same way dire beast works right now. Switching targets travel time. I looked at other classes bonuses and sunk down even further in my seat. 2pc a summoned pet 4pc a remixed MM mastery bonus. Very disappointed.

  3. #43
    Legendary! Spl4sh3r's Avatar
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    First set bonuses I as a Survival actually like (this was before I read OP mentioning SV Mastery for the Nature Damage)

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Slot View Post
    I'm sorry man but every time you say that is our theme makes me cringe. Yes we have a pet but only recently did they add more to our so call pet "theme" (stampede and dire beast). Both stampede and dire beasts are a pain because of travel time when you switch targets.

    I'm sure I am not the only one that hates pets because of the micro managing and all the terrible pathing and AI pets have. This is my one and only complaint with pets in this game. When I read our these set bonuses I sunk down in my chair and was completely disappointed. Not just because it was yet another summoned pet that probably will be implemented same way dire beast works right now. Switching targets travel time. I looked at other classes bonuses and sunk down even further in my seat. 2pc a summoned pet 4pc a remixed MM mastery bonus. Very disappointed.
    Sounds like you picked the wrong class to me.

  5. #45
    Before we panic about pathing issues, etc., maybe we'll see what the spell effect actually is? Maybe it's no different that Murder of Crows, ie a dot rather than a beast.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Puerto View Post
    Sounds like you picked the wrong class to me.
    I have played my hunter since release of this game and it has never been as pet heavy as it is now. So no I did not pick the wrong class. I am use to changes in the way blizzard thinks this class should go though and I adjust. Once they buffed serpent sting damage I quickly went back to survival and on e they fix MM ill go back to that. I'm also not a fan of the computer (pet) doing almost half your damage for you so I hate BM.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by knightpt View Post
    Don't make this game a pure mathematical spreadsheet where you just state that tier bonus simply give you X damage and you don't think about anything more.

    The fun and flavor aspect is also important and this set bonusses seem realy cool to see in work. At least you WILL notice when they proc making them feel like another adition to your arsenal.


    Set bonus like "gives your serpent sting 5% more damage" are absolutely boring and nothing more than math. Set bonus like this ones we're discussing in this thread are realy cool to have.
    I disagree, these set bonuses may end up looking pretty but the effects they will have on gameplay will probably be non-existent. The most interesting set bonuses, in my opinion, are the ones that somewhat affect your rotation, like the ICC tier, the current t14 4-piece, T13 bonuses and a few others. If it changes your rotation a bit (not a lot but just a bit) it makes for interesting gameplay. These bonuses however are just set-and-forget at best. At worst they make Toth a mandatory talent and force us to over-cap focus with cobra shots to get thunderhawk procs, neither of which sounds fun to me.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Oricc View Post
    These bonuses however are just set-and-forget at best. At worst they make Toth a mandatory talent and force us to over-cap focus with cobra shots to get thunderhawk procs, neither of which sounds fun to me.
    That's not how I'm seeing it. For 2T15 you probably *don't* want ToTH. For 4T15, you'll *probably* want ToTH, but it may end up that ToTH nerfs 2T15 more than it helps 4T15. There will be some analysis here.

    Granted, after the analysis is done it may end up being something set and forget, but this is not straightforward.

  9. #49
    2 piece: If it benefits from BM mastery, its clearly superiour for that, otherwise its likely neutral.

    4 piece: Alot of people are claiming that it heavily favors SV aoe compared to the other two due to its mastery. MM roughly multishots twice as often as SV due to bombardment, thus allowing for more procs. If MM mastery benefits this, it is even more striking that MM aoe could become VERY high with this.



    Single target I don't think i'm qualified to say what spec it benefits most, in any regard, its worth noting that it probably isn't a huge disparity.
    Last edited by Nangz; 2013-01-10 at 03:57 PM.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by chrth View Post
    That's not how I'm seeing it. For 2T15 you probably *don't* want ToTH. For 4T15, you'll *probably* want ToTH, but it may end up that ToTH nerfs 2T15 more than it helps 4T15. There will be some analysis here.

    Granted, after the analysis is done it may end up being something set and forget, but this is not straightforward.
    Good point!

  11. #51
    I think these set bonuses are great honestly. Especially after some of the worst we've ever had in T14. 4p is very fitting with the theme of the tier and is a much much much needed buff to raw damage output, even without knowing the ICD or proc chance.

    T14 bonuses are so damn bad.

  12. #52
    These set bonuses are just /yawn. The t14 set bonuses IMO were good, a flat damage increase on the main nukes for the 2pc and arguably the best ever (for BM) 4pc. I'm not sure why people keep bringing up the stats of the new tier when the subject of the thread is the bonus(es) of the tier. Of course we'll eventually be upgrading to the new tier because of the pure stat numbers, but that doesn't change the fact that the new bonuses are boring and lifeless. I also think that like t14, the bonuses leave MM in the dust....again lol.

    As it has been said previously, the bonuses for other prot token classes (coughwarriorcough) are FAR better for those respective classes. I'll probably be one of the last folks in my guild to bid on prot tier. I'm kind of attached to the t14 4pc (for BM) as well, I think it's great.
    Last edited by ihatepeople; 2013-01-10 at 08:29 PM.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by skitzy129 View Post
    I think these set bonuses are great honestly. Especially after some of the worst we've ever had in T14. 4p is very fitting with the theme of the tier and is a much much much needed buff to raw damage output, even without knowing the ICD or proc chance.

    T14 bonuses are so damn bad.
    Being theme based and reliable are two different things. Our t14 is raw damage in % damages which is far easier to tune then some summoned pet. Look at all the other set bonuses and you will see how well rounded they are. One example is shamans 4pc. Every time they lava burst it lowers ascendance by 1 sec, hell even mages getting a haste after alter time. Our main theme is being the only physical range dps. Pets are just a side kick less so for BM, but if our main theme was our pets I would think blizzard wouldn't make them such a pain and some times dumb.

    I am being very biased just because I hate blizzards take on pet AI hence why I play MM or surv. If BM is far ahead I would play it but Surv is not far at all. I hope they come up with a Warlock type sacrifice for MM. Would be fun.
    Last edited by Slot; 2013-01-10 at 05:09 PM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Oricc View Post
    . The most interesting set bonuses, in my opinion, are the ones that somewhat affect your rotation, like the ICC tier, the current t14 4-piece, T13 bonuses and a few others. .

    I strongly disagree with you. I don't want to re-learn my rotations again each patch if the tier bonus keeps changing the rotation. I already have my hands full with a PVP spec, 2 PVE specs (SV/BM depending on fight) and trying to be good at all. It's enough when Blizzard changes things around in the priority because its constantly changing things like buffing or nerfing talents/abilities.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Slot View Post
    Every time they lava burst it lowers ascendance by 1 sec, hell even mages getting a haste after alter time. Our main theme is being the only physical range dps. Pets are just a side kick less so for BM, but if our main theme was our pets I would think blizzard wouldn't make them such a pain and some times dumb.
    While I like the Ascendance aspect of 4P (Ascendance is my favorite spell in the game), already the players are concerned about what it's going to do with cooldowns that match it.

    I also caution people regarding the Thunderhawk summon. While the spell is currently an NPC summon (altho the NPC to be summoned is not yet known - see http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=138363), so was the original Murder of Crows. It may end up becoming a Dot effect, let's not panic just yet.

    I will say this: at least the two bonuses are related to the tier thematically.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by ihatepeople View Post

    As it has been said previously, the bonuses for other prot token classes (coughwarriorcough) are FAR better for those respective classes. I'll probably be one of the last folks in my guild to bid on prot tier. I'm kind of attached to the t14 4pc (for BM) as well, I think it's great.
    I think this is the main point here. There are 4 ppl on prot in my 13 person 10 man roster, a resto shaman, a prot warrior, and a MW monk. Already I tend to pass tokens to them because heals and tanks are (generally) more important. Let's look at these bonuses:

    Item - Monk T15 Mistweaver 2P Bonus (New) Your Renewing Mist heals for 15% more each time it travels to a new target.
    Item - Monk T15 Mistweaver 4P Bonus (New) Reduces the cooldown of your Thunder Focus Tea by 10 sec.

    Item - Shaman T15 Restoration 2P Bonus (New) Your Healing Stream Totem now heals an additional target for 50% of its normal amount.
    Item - Shaman T15 Restoration 4P Bonus (New) Your Ancestral Wakening now has a 20% chance to trigger on non-critical heals.

    Item - Warrior T15 Protection 2P Bonus (New) Your Shield Slam and Revenge have a 10% chance to activate Victory Rush and increase the healing done by the next Impending Victory by 100%.
    Item - Warrior T15 Protection 4P Bonus (New) Your abilities generate 50% more Rage when used against targets afflicted by Demoralizing Shout.

    These bonuses are far more important, imo, esp the prot warrior ones. holy shit those are sexy. 50% more rage when most of your mitigation has high rage costs? Chance to proc self-heals? Monks have a kind of new bonus seen among priests with PoM and druids with rejuv, with increasing heals over the course of a spell. Shaman ones buff their major healing CD, and buffs a major passive healing effect *and* further devalues their already least valuable stat, so they can just throw it out the window, essentially.

  17. #57
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Puerto View Post
    Sounds like you picked the wrong class to me.
    I am always annoyed by these dismissive comments that pop up when people say they dislike pets on their Hunter.

    Please direct me to the other class in the game that does ranged DPS but uses weapons, traps, tracking, and commando tactics instead of waving their fingers around and shooting sparkles from their magic wand.

    Ah. There isn't one. So if you want that, you're stuck with a pet even if that has nothing to do with making the archetype appealing to you. On the other hand, if you like being a spellcaster or a multi-dotter but dislike pets you can choose not to play Warlock. And even if you choose Warlock, you can send the stupid pet away now.
    Last edited by Lovestar; 2013-01-10 at 08:32 PM.

  18. #58
    The 2pc may very well be a dot like murder of crows seeing as it is under the physical school of damage.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    I am always annoyed by these dismissive comments that pop up when people say they dislike pets on their Hunter.

    Please direct me to the other class in the game that does ranged DPS but uses weapons, traps, tracking, and commando tactics instead of waving their fingers around and shooting sparkles from their magic wand.

    Ah. There isn't one. So if you want that, you're stuck with a pet even if that has nothing to do with making the archetype appealing to you. On the other hand, if you like being a spellcaster or a multi-dotter but dislike pets you can choose not to play Warlock. And even if you choose Warlock, you can send the stupid pet away now.
    Right there with you...


    OT: The way I see it nothing can really be said about them mathematically/spreadsheet wise until we see them in action and what they benefit from/ICDs/actual damage numbers/etc. Really the only thing to discuss I guess is whether or not they are "cool" enough. They are certainly fitting thematically with the "Thunder" raid and all that. But not very interesting certainly. Unless they have some badass visual/graphical effects, I guess.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Slot View Post
    I'm sorry man but every time you say that is our theme makes me cringe. Yes we have a pet but only recently did they add more to our so call pet "theme" (stampede and dire beast). Both stampede and dire beasts are a pain because of travel time when you switch targets.

    I'm sure I am not the only one that hates pets because of the micro managing and all the terrible pathing and AI pets have. This is my one and only complaint with pets in this game. When I read our these set bonuses I sunk down in my chair and was completely disappointed. Not just because it was yet another summoned pet that probably will be implemented same way dire beast works right now. Switching targets travel time. I looked at other classes bonuses and sunk down even further in my seat. 2pc a summoned pet 4pc a remixed MM mastery bonus. Very disappointed.
    Pets have always been the Hunter thing. There are hundreds of beasts out there for us to tame and more are being added every patch. Whether you like it or not, Hunters are archers with pets. Even as Survival and Marksmanship in Cataclysm and before that pets were a big thing and they will remain being our thing for this expansion at least. The route blizzard is going now is make pets and beasts more and more of our flavor and in terms of looks and such, that is absolutely fine. I have stated numerous times that mechanic related issues like for example the target switching and travel time are perfectly valid and that I agree with those complaints. But I don't see how this summoned hawk is a bad thing compared to say cobra shot instead dealing 10% more damage or something like that (random example). Yes it's guaranteed damage, I get it. That's a mechanic related complaint. But if you dislike pets, guardians and the whole beast theme so much you are playing the wrong class.

    I wish our 4 piece was something more balanced and interesting. The 2 piece however I think is quite neat. If it does work like Dire Beast I don't see it causing too many issues aside from target switching. Looking at the abilities of the bosses in tier 15 I have the feeling that's only going to become a major issue on two of the bosses.
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