1. #1
    Dreadlord ItsRedd's Avatar
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    What am I doing wrong? Any help appreciated (Fire mage)

    Hi guys,

    First off... sorry for my insane amount of posts. I'm generally a reader vs a contributor, but some things you just can't find.
    Considering my position as a fairly casual player, and even-more-so a very casual raider, I'm looking for some non-hardcore advice. I guess.

    I read the mage forums regularly, especially anything related to the Fire spec. It's the spec I (still..) play, simply because I enjoy it the most. Again, not a hardcore raider so no need to absolutely optimize or go for the FotM. (Hell, wouldn't have time to learn and gear a different spec)

    Now, recently I've been reading alot about the definition of 'a good combustion'. I consistently come across posts where people state that you want to combust at, in my opinion, ridiculously high numbers. I've seen people that are only happy with an ignite of 100k or higher, and I've seen people that claim "a 50k ignite will just have to do sometimes."

    Here's the kicker, since the recent nerfs to Fire I'm generally excited to see an ignite of 20k-30k. Solely because it doesn't happen often. Meaning a 10k-15k combustion. If I have to believe these forums, those combustions are absolutely awful.

    What do I have to do, to get a nice 50k or even 100k ignite to base combustion off of?

    Char: In a raid I'll be around 28-29% crit without procs. Am using the evocation 90 talent, and trying hard to always keep it up. I'll definitely have it up when building ignite.
    Armory: /character/dragonblight/Itsredd/advanced (eu dragonblight, Itsredd. Fairly sure I cant paste links yet. :-( )
    Sadly, I don't have any raid logs. I'm part of a really social team that's just starting MSV Normal. Might have some logs of that soon.

    What I do: Spam fireballs untill I get a crit. Use glyphed fire blast (forgot name >.<) to get a pyro proc. Spam fireball until I get another heating up. Pop alter time. Let the pyro's roll (up to 4 if I'm lucky enough with crits during the pyro's and again using the glyphed fire blast). If it's available, I try to use an intellect pot right before chaining the pyro's. It often happens that my pyro's don't crit, and/or I can't use my heating up due to not critting. Which lowers the number of pyros.

    I think I'm generally doing the right thing, but my ignites never seem to get above 40k (and even 40k is a rare occurrence). The only thing I can imagine is using PoM for another pyro, but that will seriously limit my movement by not having Scorch. And MSV seems to rely on movement a lot if I'm correct.
    The last thing i'm slacking at is monitoring the cd on my trinkets (DMF 0/2 and LFR LotC 0/2) and cloak thing. (Am a tailor)

    However, if I set up weakaura's or whatever addon tracks these, am I supposed to wait for a nice combination of trinket procs before using combust? Doesn't this mean I won't use my combust as close to the cd as possible?

    Do these small things I'm missing (ie monitoring cd on trinkets, not using PoM) really make the difference between a 40k and a 100k ignite?

    Thanks in advance, all help is welcome. And my apologies for the length of this, didn't plan on it being this long. >.>

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Itsredd View Post
    What I do: Spam fireballs untill I get a crit. Use glyphed fire blast (forgot name >.<) to get a pyro proc. Spam fireball until I get another heating up. Pop alter time. Let the pyro's roll (up to 4 if I'm lucky enough with crits during the pyro's and again using the glyphed fire blast). If it's available, I try to use an intellect pot right before chaining the pyro's. It often happens that my pyro's don't crit, and/or I can't use my heating up due to not critting. Which lowers the number of pyros.
    I very rarely (on non gimmick fights) get combustions higher than 50k myself. I'm 389 ilvl and have 31% crit but I don't have 2-piece bonus, so not far ahead of you. However i can almost always get one that's at least 35-40k so yours do sound a bit low. Make sure you don't just blindly cast those pyros during this sequence. If the first two crit and you get a big ignite, go ahead and pop combustion even if you have a third one, cuz if that third one DOESNT crit, it'll drop your ignite back down considerably.

    Even with all the tips/tricks in the world, fire is still heavily reliant on RNG.

    Also, you are over the hit cap (according to armory) and have a couple pieces with hit that aren't reforged (shoulders/off-hand)...not a huge deal, but every bit counts...although armory has been acting weird for me the last couple days, so you may have already fixed this.

    good luck!

  3. #3
    Dreadlord ItsRedd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youvegotfail View Post
    If the first two crit and you get a big ignite, go ahead and pop combustion even if you have a third one, cuz if that third one DOESNT crit, it'll drop your ignite back down considerably.
    First of all, thanks for the reply! :-)

    What you said above might very well be true. I'm still kind of used to spamming every pyro I get in hopes of getting a higher ignite. Didn't realize a non-crit pyro would drop it, but it would explain a lot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Youvegotfail View Post
    Also, you are over the hit cap (according to armory) and have a couple pieces with hit that aren't reforged (shoulders/off-hand)...not a huge deal, but every bit counts...although armory has been acting weird for me the last couple days, so you may have already fixed this.
    Fairly sure I'm sitting at 15.09% hit cap. Not entirely sure why the armory says I have so much of it. o.O But, I might be able to get closer to the magic 15.00. Still hoping to get the sword from terrace lfr, so I can get rid of some more hit.

    Something's probably off with the armory... it's showing alot more mounts than I actually have as well.

    Thanks a lot for the feedback!

  4. #4
    Search my name on MMO and go back a few of my posts I made one where I made some examples of building ignites to give you some more insight into how crits work and interact with Ignite etc.

    A non-crit ignite can increase or drop your ignite all depends on your "Ignite cap" (tm) and your timing of your Pyro casts vs them hitting vs Ignite ticks vs your timing of Combustion.

    It can make a huge difference if you cast your last Pyro, if you wait for it to hit or cast combustion before it hits. DEPENDING on the time Ignite will tick.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 02:06 AM ----------

    Only thing I can see "wrong" with your spec is you have to much haste, assuming you have the 5% raid haste from a hybrid dps.... You only need 3059 (check fire mage sticky to be sure) haste rating to get extra ticks on both LB and Combustion (glyped) unless you have combustion unglyphed which is generaly a bad idea.

    Any haste above that should be Mastery to increase your ignites or Crit/hit obviously

  5. #5
    One thing to remember is that ignite rolls up. Even if you get a crit pyro, it won't be a promising combustion unless ignite has been rolling up. So if you are losing your ignite or have a consistently lower ignite before your crits, this can lead to lower combustions in my experience. I have found not chasing that pyro proc but rather waiting for a second heating up or at least one or 2 more fireball casts before spending that proc to have helped me, especially after any heavy movement or down time due to boss mechanics like Lei Shei's hide.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord ItsRedd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namliam View Post
    A non-crit ignite can increase or drop your ignite all depends on your "Ignite cap" (tm) and your timing of your Pyro casts vs them hitting vs Ignite ticks vs your timing of Combustion.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-09 at 02:06 AM ----------

    Only thing I can see "wrong" with your spec is you have to much haste [...]
    Thank you very much for the reply! I'll find the posts you made about building ignites tonight and read them through. Call me a noob, but I still thought that more pyro's = higher ignite. Obviously, that isn't the case. Thanks for pointing that out.

    Apart from that I'll try to get my haste as close to 3059 as possible. Last run we didnt have the spellhaste buff in the raid (>.> sketchy comp) but I'll be making sure to get that sorted for the next raid.

    I might find this out later when researching your recent posts, but aren't there any soft haste caps above the 3059 one?
    I generally have the feeling casting fireball (or a hard pyro) already takes forever, and if I forge to about 3059 haste I'll lose out on over 1600 haste.
    I guess the missing damage will be substituted by the added ignite/combust damage?

    Thanks again, and to other readers: All tips are welcome, how 'logical' they may seem to you! Consider me a noob (even though I have been playing a fire mage for a small year, lol). :-)

  7. #7
    All haste caps are in the document contained in the Fire mage sticky, the next "soft cap" is pretty far away.... far far away, unless you are intrested in Unglyped Combustion.

  8. #8
    These soft caps are programmed into things like Mr. Robot right? Or is it necessary to adjust the weights with a soft cap for this purpose?

  9. #9
    I am Murloc! Fenixdown's Avatar
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    Not playing arcane, for starters. :P

  10. #10
    Dont think they are programmed into MR Robot, even for your own char the figures set in sites like MR Robot may be wrong, capping the soft-haste cap when you are just below it while maxing crit... Like when you are at 2900 haste, really worth losing the 150 crit to cap the haste.

    You can put it in the weights, but it is not there.... Hard caps like Hit and for example shatter crit cap is in there. haste isnt

  11. #11
    Dreadlord ItsRedd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by namliam View Post
    All haste caps are in the document contained in the Fire mage sticky, the next "soft cap" is pretty far away.... far far away, unless you are intrested in Unglyped Combustion.
    I haven't read anything positive about unglyphed combust, so I'll assume it's always best to glyph it.

    Thanks for the reply, I'll get my haste down to the cap.

    This might be my noobiest question to date, and if its explained in the sticky I apologize in advance, but what would the haste cap be if I were to raid without a spellhaste buff? I'm not a real mathwizard myself. :-(

    Again, ty for the replies guys. Even if some of em are a wee bit offtopic.

  12. #12
    5334 haste rating to get the first tick without raid haste
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...ZmFYa0E#gid=39

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