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  1. #1

    Incoming Invocation Nerf?

    Just tested the new build on PTR and wow is it easy to stay at 6 stacks now. I mean 1 tick of evocation and you're back to 100% from 80%, and this was on a premade character with 460 ilvl and hardly any haste. There's no way this will stand surely? I can't access my own character for comparison sake unfortunately so I can't compare DPS, but from the brief look I had invocation weaving seems amazing, especially from a mobility point of view.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Kodaz View Post
    Just tested the new build on PTR and wow is it easy to stay at 6 stacks now. I mean 1 tick of evocation and you're back to 100% from 80%, and this was on a premade character with 460 ilvl and hardly any haste. There's no way this will stand surely? I can't access my own character for comparison sake unfortunately so I can't compare DPS, but from the brief look I had invocation weaving seems amazing, especially from a mobility point of view.
    We could see this coming miles away.. so ye dont really know what is going to happen. Might just be that invocation with reduced cast time or 15% per tick is not gonna happen anymore.

  3. #3
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    lol, Evo weaving replaces scorch weaving.
    Grats GC, we still don't care about mana.

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  4. #4
    I could easily see them nerf Invocation mana returned by 50%. Their goal was to make it less maintenancy for Fire/Frost.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahumut5
    I don't want to call Boubouille and wake her up for something like this.

  5. #5
    um..... you can easily do this on live most likely(invocation with 10s cd) and no it doesnt work and you would lose a gcd and you already have 50% less mana regen ontop of that

    and in ptr its damage is reduced to 15% from 25% so that make quick 100% even worse (this is what i think at least, someone post some numbers)

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulstrike View Post
    um..... you can easily do this on live most likely(invocation with 10s cd) and no it doesnt work and you would lose a gcd and you already have 50% less mana regen ontop of that

    and in ptr its damage is reduced to 15% from 25% so that make quick 100% even worse (this is what i think at least, someone post some numbers)
    I don't think it matters that spell damage is reduced to 15% given the higher mobility you gain. Weaving evo is like a 1/2 sec cast time that you incorporate every 2-3 ABs. In my mind it's going to beat ROP given the nerf to regen and having no choice but to clear stacks. I know it's not going to stay this way because it defeats the purpose of clearing stacks so any discussion is moot anyway

  7. #7
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaoslux View Post
    I could easily see them nerf Invocation mana returned by 50%. Their goal was to make it less maintenancy for Fire/Frost.
    As long as they only nerf it for Arcane, sure.

    If they nerf it for Fire/Frost, Invocation automatically becomes the worst choice because I'm barely keeping my mana high enough with live invo. w/ 60s duration, I have no idea how I can keep my mana up.

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  8. #8
    I don't like the 1 tick playstyle but I have a feeling they'll let this one slide since your mana's changing more dynamically than it did with Scorchweave. They should be happy that there's another viable 90 talent at least, and the RoP nerf helped that along. Then again, since your stacks never reset, they might still want to do something.

  9. #9
    Another reason to remove mana from level 90 talents imo

  10. #10
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrExcelion View Post
    I don't like the 1 tick playstyle but I have a feeling they'll let this one slide since your mana's changing more dynamically than it did with Scorchweave. They should be happy that there's another viable 90 talent at least, and the RoP nerf helped that along. Then again, since your stacks never reset, they might still want to do something.
    Define "1 tick playstyle"?

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    As long as they only nerf it for Arcane, sure.

    If they nerf it for Fire/Frost, Invocation automatically becomes the worst choice because I'm barely keeping my mana high enough with live invo. w/ 60s duration, I have no idea how I can keep my mana up.
    Don't forget that Invocation will be twice as fast so it won't be as heavy a penalty to use it. So even if it were to give less mana, i can totally afford a 2 sec cast to get back mana more than i can afford a 5 second cast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bahumut5
    I don't want to call Boubouille and wake her up for something like this.

  12. #12
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaoslux View Post
    Don't forget that Invocation will be twice as fast so it won't be as heavy a penalty to use it. So even if it were to give less mana, i can totally afford a 2.5* sec cast to get back mana more than i can afford a 5 second cast.
    *Fix't

    You don't quite understand how devastating this would be on Fire and Frost's DPS. Not only are we losing a 10% increase, but we barely have 35% mana after 40s. After 60s, I'll probably be pushing 10-20%. If it gave less mana, it'd instantly be a garbage talent that even IW would beat (which would mean ALL Mages would be FORCED to play with RoP, and fuck that noise; I refuse to be tied down to it)

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    Define "1 tick playstyle"?
    I guess its to use evoc for 1 gcd and then continue the rotation and just refreshing invoc buff every 60 seconds, given with 3 second cast.. 1 gcd will allways result in 2 ticks..

  14. #14
    The Patient elpadrino293's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragon9870 View Post
    *Fix't

    You don't quite understand how devastating this would be on Fire and Frost's DPS. Not only are we losing a 10% increase, but we barely have 35% mana after 40s. After 60s, I'll probably be pushing 10-20%. If it gave less mana, it'd instantly be a garbage talent that even IW would beat (which would mean ALL Mages would be FORCED to play with RoP, and fuck that noise; I refuse to be tied down to it)
    isn't is an 8% decrease? 1.25*.92=1.15
    in return, we are gaining 12 seconds of cast time that would have otherwise been spent channeling evocation every 120 seconds by my napkin math before haste reductions.
    and perhaps mana gems will be useful now seeing as we will dip lower into our mana pool.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by elpadrino293 View Post
    isn't is an 8% decrease? 1.25*.92=1.15
    in return, we are gaining 12 seconds of cast time that would have otherwise been spent channeling evocation every 120 seconds by my napkin math before haste reductions.
    and perhaps mana gems will be useful now seeing as we will dip lower into our mana pool.
    What this guy said. Personally I never really dip below 50% mana as fire using Invocation. Now I will just have to use a mana gem if I need to. Not really a big deal that I have to use something that was designed to used in the first place.

  16. #16
    Dragon9870, I have no idea what your doing as Fire if you have Mana issues? This entire xpac I have never once run out of mana... As I pop Evo after the 40secs I'm always at 50% or higher....

    As for nerfing this, I think it's gonna happen regardless, not because of the use you mentioned above but from a PVP perspective. The cast time is cut in half, so with the new haste plateaus in 5.2 it will be roughly a 2 - 2.2 second cast. Yes they have nerfed the glyphed heal to 20% but what other DPS class do you know that can heal 20% of their health in 2 seconds and have no cool down on it?

    Honestly can't see this making live....

  17. #17
    As a player who likes soloing stuff, I'm quite sad about the healing nerf (20% down from 40% part)
    But maybe it doesn't change much if you consider the channeling duration reduced 50% and invo not having a CD anymore if I read it correctly.(at least for now)

  18. #18
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    lol, Evo weaving replaces scorch weaving.
    Grats GC, we still don't care about mana.
    He once said himself that mana shouldn't really matter anymore for dps specs, but only for healers. So Arcane shouldn't have to care about it either.
    Last edited by Voyager; 2013-01-10 at 06:10 PM.

  19. #19
    Mechagnome Wargon's Avatar
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    All of the last tier talents are boring dmg boosts, oh stand on this rune, oh evocate every 40 seconds, shit is boring and I wish they would redesign the last mage tier completely.
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  20. #20
    Warchief Thaladhrun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    He once said himself that mana shouldn't really matter anymore for dps specs, but only for healers. So Arcane shouldn't have to care about it either.
    Arcane is built around mana mangement. Its mastery is linked to mana. The entire lv 90 row of talents is arcane-centric.

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