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  1. #41
    You ranked on heroic which is a different fight, so no, you didn't.

    Actually, you just say you ranked, you haven't even offered any proof.
    Last edited by djtravitrav; 2013-01-11 at 01:08 AM.

  2. #42
    I think the problem with the 4 piece is that it isn't sexy enough. It's not hugely buffing a major cooldown or attack. Not giving us a new buff like the two piece. However the biggest improvement to me is that I won't need to plan ahead on the big hits. I won't need to scrounge for spare chi after thrash. It'll be there and cleared. Will probably mean zero heavy stagger ticks. That's probably more valuable to me than the extra chi.

    But good to see three tier 14 and 15 2 piece bonuses go well together. Just screams out for adding crit. Haven't seen set stats yet but I'm hoping to see less mastery on it!

  3. #43
    Titan Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alucin View Post
    But good to see three tier 14 and 15 2 piece bonuses go well together. Just screams out for adding crit. Haven't seen set stats yet but I'm hoping to see less mastery on it!
    Not to mention, NO frakkin dodge .

    Also.. As to the whole "Is the 4pc good or not"(btw, I think it's epic), there's one thing you all need to take into account. You're judging the bonus based on CURRENT content, not the NEW content we're going into. Sure you may only purify once a boss on Wind Lord... But you have NO idea how often you'll be purifying on some of the ToT bosses. Hell from what we've seen from the (VERY) early datamining.. some of these new bosses hit like TRUCKS. Horridon, the FIRST boss, has a move that hits for 500000 and debuffs you so you take 10% more damage from it. That's from the FIRST boss, on Normal mode, and he's not alone, most of the "Tank Alert" moves are hitting for 500000. We will more than likely be Purifying alot more on these fights than we are now.
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  4. #44
    Blademaster Grozzle's Avatar
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    Looks incredibly sexy imo, not just talking about that set bonus either!

  5. #45
    Let me go change my pants.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by djtravitrav View Post
    You ranked on heroic which is a different fight, so no, you didn't.

    Actually, you just say you ranked, you haven't even offered any proof.
    Whether he beat your or not, World of logs rankings and the damage you put out were not the topic of the disagreement between you and the others.
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    Not to mention, NO frakkin dodge .

    Also.. As to the whole "Is the 4pc good or not"(btw, I think it's epic), there's one thing you all need to take into account. You're judging the bonus based on CURRENT content, not the NEW content we're going into. Sure you may only purify once a boss on Wind Lord... But you have NO idea how often you'll be purifying on some of the ToT bosses. Hell from what we've seen from the (VERY) early datamining.. some of these new bosses hit like TRUCKS. Horridon, the FIRST boss, has a move that hits for 500000 and debuffs you so you take 10% more damage from it. That's from the FIRST boss, on Normal mode, and he's not alone, most of the "Tank Alert" moves are hitting for 500000. We will more than likely be Purifying alot more on these fights than we are now.
    Not saying it's not going to be a good bonus, just that it's not so flashy

    The 2 piece bonus already means more stagger so more purify.

  8. #48
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djtravitrav View Post
    You ranked on heroic which is a different fight, so no, you didn't.

    Actually, you just say you ranked, you haven't even offered any proof.
    494 iLevel so very close to you in gear and only have one claw and I clear Moderate+ stagger as often as possible on Wind Lord, I have you beat on 25m Normal by 5 ranks currently. There is some proof for ya. I would use the s**t out of the 4P. Also cruised at 40k HPS out healing in total healing done even for a shorter fight.

    This isn't flexing of epeen just a statement that you can put out serious DPS AND clear stagger regularly.
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    494 iLevel so very close to you in gear and only have one claw and I clear Moderate+ stagger as often as possible on Wind Lord, I have you beat on 25m Normal by 5 ranks currently. There is some proof for ya. I would use the s**t out of the 4P. Also cruised at 40k HPS out healing in total healing done even for a shorter fight.

    This isn't flexing of epeen just a statement that you can put out serious DPS AND clear stagger regularly.
    I would flex my epeen for him, but I don't do normals. No offense to you obviously Surreal. Haven't used the WoWHeroes site before, kind of interesting. Too bad I just switched from Topped Off on Illidan to Nightmare Asylum and had to name change because some 85 rogue had my name, so it won't look up my parses on WoL for my old name.

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  10. #50
    Mechagnome Yorgl's Avatar
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    I think both of these bonuses are the best tanking set bonuses for the T15 ! Not situationnal and fit to almost every kind of fight !
    Love them ! ♥

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by djtravitrav View Post
    Of course you beat me on heroic, the fight is completely different, the adds are alive the entire encounter and you can pad for the entire duration. You'd be horrible if you didn't. That example does not apply.

    Also, I never said I don't use purifying brew except on one fight. My argument that is an extremely rarely used ability is what got this entire debate started, but everyone seems to ignore the fact that Purifying Brew is such a minor part of a Brewmaster's toolbox, my original point stands that the 4pc is wasted on something so minor. None of you have been able to provide an argument to alter this other than "
    XYZ says the best way to reforge is... or "LOL TANKS CAN'T DPS DATS THE DPS'S JOB DUNDERHEAD.
    Going to go ahead and consider this matter closed and allow you forum heroes back into your echo chamber.
    Your primary job as a tank is to mitigate the damage you take and reduce it as much as possible. That is what a tank is, does, and always will be. Anything else is entirely secondary, no matter how much you say it or how many thinly veiled insults you throw at us.

    That said, I don't think anyone said:

    XYZ says the best way to reforge is... or "LOL TANKS CAN'T DPS DATS THE DPS'S JOB DUNDERHEAD.'
    I believe what I actually said was that the 4 piece allows us to reforge out of haste and into other stats to improve survivability (probably crit for more EB uptime), and that damage dealing is the DPSers role primarily. Tanks can certainly do as much damage as possible (whilst minimising the damage they take since, y'know, primary role and all that), but on most fights they won't be out DPSing the proper DPSers. There are exceptions (Wind Lord Mel'jarak as the primary one), but overall tank DPS is not the make or break factor in beating enrage timers.

    Related, I find it interesting that you link that WoW heroes site, which uses World of Logs as proof of high DPS. Well yes, with your current playstyle you'll certainly do a lot of DPS... Because last I checked, Stagger counts as damage done. If you're leaving it up and letting it grow to silly levels, well of course you're going to do a lot more DPS than the rest of us.

    As for the 'PB is such a minor part of a Brewmaster's toolbox', which is 'what got this entire debate started'... That's the point. It isn't a minor part. It isn't even an occasional part. It's a huge part of what we do, and simply put, if you don't use it then you're doing it entirely wrong. That said I doubt you'll realise this, since your DPS rankings are apparently so precious to you. A shame. I feel sorry for your healers. =/

  12. #52
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Yorgl View Post
    I think both of these bonuses are the best tanking set bonuses for the T15 ! Not situationnal and fit to almost every kind of fight !
    Love them ! ♥
    I personally think the 2p bonus is nice only if you have the 4p... which could be a bit frustrating, especially if ToT is similar to the T14 where most bosses hit so smoothly that gearing the tank is not a priority. But this is just a first thought on it, i'll have to do more testing, more thinking and more mathing.
    There are exceptions (Wind Lord Mel'jarak as the primary one), but overall tank DPS is not the make or break factor in beating enrage timers
    I don't think Windlord is an exception. There is virtually no enrage timer on this fight, whether the tank does 600k dps or 800k does not matter. What matters is that everyone stays alive, especially the tank, given that it's one of the rare bosses able to kill a tank.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    I am talking overall for a fight. When you purify 30 times on a fight, it would be nice to see that on Skada/Recount/WoL attributed somewhere so we can show our healers that we are doing our jobs correctly. I am not going to look at my stagger dmg, write it down, then purify and keep a running tally.
    ah okey. yes would be great if there were combat log support for that! should come up some day, but it took a while until shields got trackable...
    honestly, you didn't mention anything about addons/logs, I'm not a visionary ^^

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Morion View Post
    I don't think Windlord is an exception. There is virtually no enrage timer on this fight, whether the tank does 600k dps or 800k does not matter. What matters is that everyone stays alive, especially the tank, given that it's one of the rare bosses able to kill a tank.
    Bad wording on my part, but I meant it's more an exception to the 'tanks won't be out DPSing the DPS' thing. Because usually we won't, except on Mel'jarak and other sorts of gimmick fights.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    As for the 'PB is such a minor part of a Brewmaster's toolbox', which is 'what got this entire debate started'... That's the point. It isn't a minor part. It isn't even an occasional part. It's a huge part of what we do, and simply put, if you don't use it then you're doing it entirely wrong. That said I doubt you'll realise this, since your DPS rankings are apparently so precious to you. A shame. I feel sorry for your healers. =/
    Funny thing is, if his DPS rankings are so precious to him he should love the 4pc. With it being off the GCD and free when it procs, it means he can reduce his dmg taken without hurting his DPS at all. This means he has to dedicate less GCDs to self healing and can focus on higher DPS abilities. Also means his healers might be able to throw some DPS in there.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abysal View Post
    Funny thing is, if his DPS rankings are so precious to him he should love the 4pc.
    Actually, Kisho made a very interesting remark by remembering us that Stagger is part of the "Damage done" on World of Logs. I would be really interested in knowing whether your Stagger actually increases your WoL dps/rank.

  17. #57
    Titan Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alucin View Post
    Not saying it's not going to be a good bonus, just that it's not so flashy

    The 2 piece bonus already means more stagger so more purify.
    Flashy is overrated I'd rather have a bonus like this, that adds a small buff to a move we use alot, than some big flashy buff to a seldom used move.
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  18. #58
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    I would flex my epeen for him, but I don't do normals. No offense to you obviously Surreal.
    Meh ranking on normal currently isn't that impressive since you are just replacing some poor smuck with less gear than you, even ranking on H Feng wasn't terribly exciting. Feel better if I can rank on H Blade Lord and Wind Lord if we down them next week. Point still stands that you can push out amazing DPS and HPS while clearing stagger and keeping your buffs up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Morion View Post
    Actually, Kisho made a very interesting remark by remembering us that Stagger is part of the "Damage done" on World of Logs. I would be really interested in knowing whether your Stagger actually increases your WoL dps/rank.
    As noted Stagger counts as Damage Done and Damage Taken so I guess it counts towards your logs. Funny since clearing stagger technically hurts your ability to rank. Just don't want people taking DJ's post as advice, our job is to tank and if you can do so while also crushing out some DPS that is a bonus to you and the raid.

    I can't confirm 100% that it counts in your WoL ranking though as the list ends at Swift Reflexes and Stagger was the next highest so not sure if it's just cut off or not counting.
    Last edited by SurrealNight; 2013-01-11 at 03:59 PM.
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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by djtravitrav View Post
    Of course you beat me on heroic, the fight is completely different, the adds are alive the entire encounter and you can pad for the entire duration. You'd be horrible if you didn't. That example does not apply.

    Going to go ahead and consider this matter closed and allow you forum heroes back into your echo chamber.
    http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...ard/Kuroiwolf/

    I do 10mans but I beat you on a couple, and I don't do MSV normal modes anymore. Do I win a cookie?
    (Still progressing in HC HoF).

    I even beat you on wind lord, and the top couple on 25man have 400-540k so I'd assume it's easier to do higher DPS on that 25man, probably a load of other fights too.

    Also yes, stagger counts as DPS on world of logs, so the more stagger you have, the more artificial DPS you do.

    The T15 bonuses are amazing for BrM. The 2 set will probably increase the frequency that you need to use PB but then 4 set will reduce the cost to 0 within every 10 seconds or so. Not many bosses have burst that would manage to make your stagger to go red within 10 seconds.

    The only time we'd "NEED" more haste is with AOE fights (like wind lord) with T15. Definitely going to go heavy crit with T15 4 set.
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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    As for the 'PB is such a minor part of a Brewmaster's toolbox', which is 'what got this entire debate started'... That's the point. It isn't a minor part. It isn't even an occasional part. It's a huge part of what we do, and simply put, if you don't use it then you're doing it entirely wrong. That said I doubt you'll realise this, since your DPS rankings are apparently so precious to you. A shame. I feel sorry for your healers. =/
    ^Totally this. The whole design that Blizz created for BrM was for us to stagger and then purify the damage when it gets too high. They even added a color system for us: green = ok, amber = be aware, red = danger. I'd like to see him not use PB on H-Windlord when you are taking 50-60k stagger ticks per sec. Yes, I do believe that his healers will want to choke him or have him replaced. I do think he totally missed the boat about the role of a tank and I would take a stab and say he has probably not been a tank for longer than an xpac or 2.

    Edit: Oh and my first thought when I read the 2/4P bonuses were that BrM had the strongest set bonuses of all the tanks in T15. Both fit the playstyle perfectly and both will help smooth out our spiky damage taken(for free), which was a healing concern since the start.
    Last edited by Archdrood; 2013-01-11 at 08:23 PM.

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