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  1. #1
    The Patient Xeonde's Avatar
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    Feels like Elemental got the better set bonus?

    Maybe I am being unoptimistic, but with their 4PC lowering the cool down of Ascendance and Enhancements lowering the cool down of Spirit Wolves...I realize it will be a huge survival increase, but looking at some of my logs, my Spirit Wolves do less than 1% of my damage. Is this really going to shoot up? Mathematically, Windfury procs enough to where the cool down of Spirit wolves seems almost negligible so that may improve the situation a lot, but I am on the fence.

    Thoughts?
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  2. #2
    1) Elemental needs boost more than Enhancement.
    2) It's still way too soon to tell what dps gain it's going to bring, as everything might change.
    Shaman - Hunter - Monk - Druid - Warlock - DK - another Shaman - one more Shaman

  3. #3
    Remember talent whenn lightning bolt overload reduced cd on em so it woukd be always 1 min cd(old talent) so i like ele bonuses it seems to be one of best in t15

  4. #4
    Seems pretty good for AoE. The first bonus anyway.

    The 4pc bonus will probably not reduce Ascendance to a 2 min CD, so I guess everyone will wait with using it till Elemental Mastery is ready, or hold the 2. Elemental Mastery for Ascendance. It doesn't seem like the Ascendance CD is triggered before Ascendance runs out either.

    For the 4pc to have an actual DPS increase, it has to allow another Ascendance during the fight, which I doubt will happen often?
    Last edited by Enaina; 2013-01-10 at 06:49 AM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Enaina View Post
    For the 4pc to have an actual DPS increase, it has to allow another Ascendance during the fight, which I doubt will happen often?
    On a short fight, let's say 3:15, probably not.

    But for anything else you will likely get at least 1 additional Ascendance.

    Sometimes it doesn't have to reduce the CD by 3mins, but rather ~1min that Ascendance goes off CD before the Boss dies.

    Nice to see those Set Bonus but personally i'd expected more in terms of class changes from this build.
    Too often, we are mistaken for druidic types. perhaps that's true for some shaman, but do not let yourself be plagued by the ignorant belief that we are always peaceful.
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  6. #6
    It also means we wont be able to align it with a warriors skull banner. Our raid team has a boomkin, ele and destro and a warrior tank. We use our 3 minute CD's on callout together with the skull banner. Makes for a quite significant increase in both the boomkins and my ele's burst.

    I do wonder however if it will work with our mastery and Echo (to a lesser extend, as I think EM will be the go to talent in that tier). If not the it will prob only come down by maximum a minute or so...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Enaina View Post
    Seems pretty good for AoE. The first bonus anyway.

    The 4pc bonus will probably not reduce Ascendance to a 2 min CD, so I guess everyone will wait with using it till Elemental Mastery is ready, or hold the 2. Elemental Mastery for Ascendance. It doesn't seem like the Ascendance CD is triggered before Ascendance runs out either.

    For the 4pc to have an actual DPS increase, it has to allow another Ascendance during the fight, which I doubt will happen often?
    Well idk what fights you are fighting but i feel like most fights run a minimum of 6min. If thats the case, which im pretty sure it is, then even on a 6 min fight you would more than likely get 3 instead of 2. These numbers increasing as time goes on...

    EDIT: I suppose i should say progression fights.
    Last edited by Spacepunch; 2013-01-10 at 07:37 AM.
    do what you feel.

  8. #8
    Assuming other worldy luck, ie Lava Surge proccing on every flameshock tick on a single target, you'll reduce the CD of Ascendance by 60 seconds (120 / 3 = 60) More than likely with perfect rotation it'll be half this
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  9. #9
    Mechagnome Eruionmel's Avatar
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    I'm guessing the ele 4pc will be wasted fairly often. When it gets us an extra ascendance, it'll be awesome. Any time it doesn't, it'll be jack squat. The Enh 4pc seems pretty good to me. Reduction of 8 seconds per each WF? That's a lot. The resto seems pretty badass.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by NapalmB View Post
    It also means we wont be able to align it with a warriors skull banner.
    And EM, and some racials, and Synapse Strings, TotT etc....Honestly, whats another Ascendance worth if you can't time any other Asc except for the first with other CD's - or do we wait with every other EM until Asc is ready? The 4P really messes up a lot of synergy.
    There are also lots of boss mechanics that don't let you use Asc on CD - what would make the 4P irrelevant. During heavy AoE it is useless anyway.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Laurean View Post
    During heavy AoE it is useless anyway.
    Lavabeam deals more damage than CL you know? So I don't think it is useless. Also you could even do LvB spam and then start CL etc.

  12. #12
    More depedence on auto-crit Lava Burst spamming while GCD capped! The secondary stat weights in t15 are going to be terrifyingly lopsided, crit is going to tank and haste with EM and now an even higher uptime on EM-Asc haste capping... Mastery is going to be the only decent secondary stat.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacepunch View Post
    Well idk what fights you are fighting but i feel like most fights run a minimum of 6min. If thats the case, which im pretty sure it is, then even on a 6 min fight you would more than likely get 3 instead of 2. These numbers increasing as time goes on...

    EDIT: I suppose i should say progression fights.
    That would require a Lava Burst every 2. sec. And we are not sure that the Lava Bursts during Ascendance count towards it.

  14. #14
    I just tested - doesn't look like Ascendence actually goes on CD before ascendence is over - so no .. the 12-15 LvBs we'd get off there will prob not count towards next Ascendance... All of a sudden it doesn't look as awesome as I thought

  15. #15
    pop ascendance at start finish 15 sec in, pop at 315 end at 330 ,pop at 630. so you would only need to reduce it about 45 sec to be successfull.... you would need to cast one once every 6-7 sec.
    do what you feel.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by NapalmB View Post
    I just tested - doesn't look like Ascendence actually goes on CD before ascendence is over - so no .. the 12-15 LvBs we'd get off there will prob not count towards next Ascendance... All of a sudden it doesn't look as awesome as I thought
    doesn't look like it but does actually go on cooldown the second you use it, but the icon stays lit up like its still available to use.

    maybe you should leave testing to people who know the spec rather than your alt, no need for false information.

  17. #17
    I am Murloc! Volitar's Avatar
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    Did they have this set bonus planned all along? Maybe that's why this is the only cooldown in the game that goes on cooldown after the effect wares off.

    Also Elemental always has badass set bonuses, how many of them have been so good that they were turned into talents later on?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    doesn't look like it but does actually go on cooldown the second you use it, but the icon stays lit up like its still available to use.

    maybe you should leave testing to people who know the spec rather than your alt, no need for false information.
    There is no possible way to tell for sure regardless of playing the spec

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Enaina View Post
    There is no possible way to tell for sure regardless of playing the spec
    i play troll elemental shaman, whenever berserking comes off cooldown i know ascendance is ready with it since i always use both together.

    if this was not the case and ascendance came off cooldown afterwards then they would not line up.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 05:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacepunch View Post
    pop ascendance at start finish 15 sec in, pop at 315 end at 330 ,pop at 630. so you would only need to reduce it about 45 sec to be successfull.... you would need to cast one once every 6-7 sec.
    its pop 0, then 3:00, then 6:00

    cooldown stats when ascendance is used, not finishes....

    please help me, im surrounded by loads of clueless shamans!

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 05:48 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Volitar View Post
    Did they have this set bonus planned all along? Maybe that's why this is the only cooldown in the game that goes on cooldown after the effect wares off.
    WRONG AGAIN, please stop spreading lies.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    i play troll elemental shaman, whenever berserking comes off cooldown i know ascendance is ready with it since i always use both together.

    if this was not the case and ascendance came off cooldown afterwards then they would not line up.
    Consider the idea that the duration + CD is 3 min. So the real CD begins when ascendance ends, but only last 2:45.

    Ok, actually thinking about it based on the CD not starting before Asc expires.... So you have 165 seconds of which to reduce the CD, minus however much the CD is reduced. Based on simcraft # of Lava Bursts in the gap between Asc there are only about 20 LvB's at best with another 10-12 Mastery LvB's. So you are looking at about a 30 second (16.66%) reduction in the CD at best and IF mastery works with the set bonus. In order to take advantage you would lose of skull banner (20% increased damage during asc) and you would de-syncing the CD with EM.

    Yeah, there might be a magic boss duration number where it is a dps increase. But generally speaking it seems like a dps loss to use Ascendance every 2.5 minutes if you have a warrior skull banner'ing. *Disclaimer: Napkin math*

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