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  1. #21
    Mechagnome Pum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post

    WRONG AGAIN, please stop spreading lies.
    Yup, Ascendance CD starts as soon as it's used.
    Quote Originally Posted by tweekzlol View Post
    but then again, The Coon is obviously unbeatable as he will just manipulate you into being his friend

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Spacepunch View Post
    pop ascendance at start finish 15 sec in, pop at 315 end at 330 ,pop at 630. so you would only need to reduce it about 45 sec to be successfull.... you would need to cast one once every 6-7 sec.
    The only problem is that you changed your example to being 10,5 min instead of 6 min

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 07:25 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    i play troll elemental shaman, whenever berserking comes off cooldown i know ascendance is ready with it since i always use both together.
    I meant whether the Lava Bursts during Ascendance count towards it. I know the CD starts 'cooling' the sec you use it, but clearly there is something weird with the ability being displayed while it's up.

  3. #23
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitkanen View Post
    Consider the idea that the duration + CD is 3 min. So the real CD begins when ascendance ends, but only last 2:45.

    Ok, actually thinking about it based on the CD not starting before Asc expires.... So you have 165 seconds of which to reduce the CD, minus however much the CD is reduced. Based on simcraft # of Lava Bursts in the gap between Asc there are only about 20 LvB's at best with another 10-12 Mastery LvB's. So you are looking at about a 30 second (16.66%) reduction in the CD at best and IF mastery works with the set bonus. In order to take advantage you would lose of skull banner (20% increased damage during asc) and you would de-syncing the CD with EM.

    Yeah, there might be a magic boss duration number where it is a dps increase. But generally speaking it seems like a dps loss to use Ascendance every 2.5 minutes if you have a warrior skull banner'ing. *Disclaimer: Napkin math*
    Extra ascendance > banner. Napkin math be completely damned. If you are gaining 30 seconds between that means you are very likely on an 8 minute fight to fit an extra in.

  4. #24
    I see them increasing the time off to 1.5 or 2 seconds to ensure that we actually get at least 1 extra ascendance.

  5. #25
    Enhancer set bonus sucks right now. Now that they also nerf EM, we will see a nerf via weaker set bonuses.

    Doesn't look good for Enhancement in 5.2. I hope they rework both set bonuses to make them more interesting and at least comparable push to T14.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    Extra ascendance > banner. Napkin math be completely damned. If you are gaining 30 seconds between that means you are very likely on an 8 minute fight to fit an extra in.
    Banner is a 20% boost, EM is a 30% boost, synapse/trinkets I'm going to ignore. Combined that's a 56% increase in damage during ascendance.
    Let me get this straight... you are saying that without a doubt, you'd rather do 3 ascendances that do 100% damage, than 2 ascendances that do 156% damage.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Pitkanen View Post
    Banner is a 20% boost, EM is a 30% boost, synapse/trinkets I'm going to ignore. Combined that's a 56% increase in damage during ascendance.
    Let me get this straight... you are saying that without a doubt, you'd rather do 3 ascendances that do 100% damage, than 2 ascendances that do 156% damage.
    Well, wouldn't the first one be used in conjunction with Banner and other shit? So using your math, you'd get 1 with 156% dmg, and 2 with 100% dmg. 356% dmg vs 312% dmg.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    Well, wouldn't the first one be used in conjunction with Banner and other shit? So using your math, you'd get 1 with 156% dmg, and 2 with 100% dmg. 356% dmg vs 312% dmg.
    In the ~8 minute fight you proposed you'd use ascendance 3 times normally. 3 "strong". You proposed getting 1 "strong" then 3 "weak". Net contrast is 2 "strong" vs 3 "weak".

    I'm not saying that is it cut and dry or that either way is clearly better. EM might line up with one of the weak ones later, synapse springs will shift the numbers, exact fight duration impacting how many "strongs" you are trading for "weaks". EM/WB are big enough that they can make the math harder than "an extra one is always better".

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Pitkanen View Post
    In the ~8 minute fight you proposed you'd use ascendance 3 times normally. 3 "strong". You proposed getting 1 "strong" then 3 "weak". Net contrast is 2 "strong" vs 3 "weak".

    I'm not saying that is it cut and dry or that either way is clearly better. EM might line up with one of the weak ones later, synapse springs will shift the numbers, exact fight duration impacting how many "strongs" you are trading for "weaks". EM/WB are big enough that they can make the math harder than "an extra one is always better".
    Well, I didn't propose any fight or anything, that was someone else . Anyway, if we take your basic math at it's core, than we come up with the 1 strong 3 weak, resulting in 456%, where the 3 strong result in 468. Like you said though, Cd's could end up lining up with one of the "weak" ones in the 4 set, resulting in a mid one, which would only need to be 13% stronger than average to become technically better. Like you said though, it's not so simple, and we'll have to wait for testing.

  10. #30
    The Patient
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    Elemental Mastery is not a 30% damage increase, due to the way that haste stacks. The DPS-increasing value of EM is at most (1-(1/1.3)) = 23.077% (at over ~15.4% haste, the GCD hits the 1-second floor, meaning that shocks & LvB don't benefit from the full amount of EM). Furthermore, Skull Banner lasts 10 sec, 5 sec shorter than, Ascendance, meaning it it at best a 13.333% increase over the course of an Ascendance. (So the combined amount for EM & Skull Banner is really ~39.5%, not 56%.) Sitting on EM to line it up with Ascendance & Skull Banner has to be compared to using it on CD, as well.

    So, in short on a perfectly 8 minute fight on live, we have 3*[Asc + EM + Skull Banner] vs. 2*[Asc + EM + Skull Banner] + [Asc + Skull Banner] + 2*[EM]. (Spells in brackets are stacked.)

    Adding in the PTR changes (saying they put EM's CD at 90 sec like they may), we have
    3*[Asc + EM + Skull Banner] + 3*[EM] vs. [Asc + EM + Skull Banner] + [Asc + EM] + 2*[Asc] + 2*[EM + Skull Banner] + 2*[EM].

    There's also the impact of trinkets, enchant procs, and bloodlust, and also considering talents: EotE vs. EM and PE vs. EB.

  11. #31
    Yea you guys are spouting nonsense about how much damage you do in an ascendance. It is different for everyone due to procs/racials/trinkets.

  12. #32
    I am Murloc! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitkanen View Post
    Banner is a 20% boost, EM is a 30% boost, synapse/trinkets I'm going to ignore. Combined that's a 56% increase in damage during ascendance.
    Let me get this straight... you are saying that without a doubt, you'd rather do 3 ascendances that do 100% damage, than 2 ascendances that do 156% damage.
    So you're not going to use EM at all from now on? Well enjoy your terrible dps. You will still get benefit from these things - tehy just won't be during your ascendance. this is a form of cooldowns 101 that you should understand before ever entering a theorycraft thread really..

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