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  1. #61
    In theory, the Imperial system isn't necessarily evil. It is essentially feudalism, where the strong gain power, and the weak swear allegiance to them. A great deal depends on the character of the leader. A good, strong leader can make life a lot better for her followers.

    In practice, though, the Empire is evil. Power corrupts, and the strong stop caring for the weak, and treat them with cruelty and injustice. As well, the Emperor is out and out evil, and he sets the tone for the entire empire.

  2. #62
    Immortal Sigma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    They are realists and believe "Peace is a lie" that is pretty much a fact is there will never be peace unless you defeat all of your enemies. They embrace Darwinism. People are either made stronger through their trials and experiences or they remain weak and the weak are either delt with or they die on their own because they are fails and cant handle their trials. Again this is good. There is no place in society for the weak and worthless as they only make society as a whole weaker. So why are the Sith and the Empire as a whole considered bad? Also the whole comparing them to Nazis isnt exactly fair. The Sith dont discriminate against anyone, well other than the weak and useless. Everyone is given a chance to prove themselves useful.


    This scene says it all. its a matter of perspective.
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  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by RohanV View Post
    In theory, the Imperial system isn't necessarily evil. It is essentially feudalism, where the strong gain power, and the weak swear allegiance to them. A great deal depends on the character of the leader. A good, strong leader can make life a lot better for her followers.
    Except that in feudalism, a vassal that would try to kill his lord, or betray him, would be considered a felon and be stripped of rank and possession by his lord successor or the King. A Sith apprentice that kills or betrays his master does what is expected of him.

    Also, in feudalism, you may be the strongest and have all the qualities in the world, if you were born a commoner, you'll die as a commoner. Unless you have a lot of luck.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lilly32 View Post
    They are realists and believe "Peace is a lie" that is pretty much a fact is there will never be peace unless you defeat all of your enemies. They embrace Darwinism. People are either made stronger through their trials and experiences or they remain weak and the weak are either delt with or they die on their own because they are fails and cant handle their trials. Again this is good. There is no place in society for the weak and worthless as they only make society as a whole weaker. So why are the Sith and the Empire as a whole considered bad? Also the whole comparing them to Nazis isnt exactly fair. The Sith dont discriminate against anyone, well other than the weak and useless. Everyone is given a chance to prove themselves useful.
    Among the Empire, anyone who is not a human or a pureblood Sith is a slave. Exemplary individuals of alien races are the exception, not the rule, and in The Old Republic, the Player Character picking a nonhuman and rising through the ranks as high as they do is more or less outright stated to be a once-in-a-lifetime event by the time their storyline ends. The Sith do very much discriminate in the Old Republic era; the fact that the Sith had an open door policy in regards to race in the days of the New Jedi Order is a huge shift away from what the Sith taught in their prime.

    In addition, social Darwinism is bad for a society in the long run as it encourages society to become a sociopathic race to the top regardless of who you grind underfoot, leaving everything beneath the very top echelon in a state of abject poverty and squalor--think just about every totalitarian government in history. If it weren't for Force powers, the Empire would have been toppled by bloody revolutions among the nonhuman species long before TOR's outset.

    Awesome sig by Elyaan is awesome.

  5. #65
    You guys are equating strength to being a good leader. The sith use either brute force or cunning to dispatch of foes and their superiors and neither of these skills will neccessarily make for a good ruler. Let's go to real life for a minute, Floyd Mayweather Jr. is an excellent fighter and in a Jedi universe would be quite the bad ass. However, I am pretty sure my life would not be bettered in any way if I had to listen to what he said as the man is an absolute piece of crap human being with an IQ of like 70.

  6. #66
    Warchief WarpedAcorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    It's like our democracies. Sure they have their load of scum. But you can clean the house from time to time. Dictatorships or totalitarian states can look all good on the outside, but they are rotten from the lowly public servant to the highest ranking official. But, hey! according to the Pravda, everything's well in the worker's paradise!
    Again, not all of the Imperials presented in SWTOR are evil. In fact most are extremely honorbound and dutiful, moreso than Republic troops. While the officers weren't afraid to get their hands dirty and did not care about hurting innocents in order to win battles, they clearly state that have no problem killing thousands or millions now in order to stabalize the galaxy and save lives in future. General Rakton of the Trooper story says at much in his finale, so although you [the trooper] obviously disagree with him, he is not acting out of a sadistic nature.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Siggma View Post

    This scene says it all. its a matter of perspective.
    Yeah, except with the fact that Dark Side of the Force twists and corrupts the entire perspective (And persona) and does so rather fast when one gives him/herself to it.

    And while the lower ranked Imperials might not be "evil" per say, the rulers of them are nothing but.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by WarpedAcorn View Post
    Again, not all of the Imperials presented in SWTOR are evil. In fact most are extremely honorbound and dutiful, moreso than Republic troops. While the officers weren't afraid to get their hands dirty and did not care about hurting innocents in order to win battles, they clearly state that have no problem killing thousands or millions now in order to stabalize the galaxy and save lives in future. General Rakton of the Trooper story says at much in his finale, so although you [the trooper] obviously disagree with him, he is not acting out of a sadistic nature.
    I already said in a previous post that not all imperials are evil. Not all republican individuals are good either. However, the imperial system is undisputably evil as is its leadership (namely, the Sith).
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  9. #69
    The Empire isn't necessarily evil, but the Sith are. Why even bother arguing against it, the Sith themselves know they're evil and think it's foolish and weak not to be. The Empire, outside of Sith rule, isn't evil. They're just much more strict and militaristic than the liberal Republic.

  10. #70
    Warchief WarpedAcorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wilian View Post
    Yeah, except with the fact that Dark Side of the Force twists and corrupts the entire perspective (And persona) and does so rather fast when one gives him/herself to it.

    And while the lower ranked Imperials might not be "evil" per say, the rulers of them are nothing but.

    It could be argued that the Light Side of the force "corrupts" just as much as the Dark Side. From what I've gathered from the Star Wars universe, the more in touch one is with the Force on either side, the more they are influenced in their personality and actions. So while The Force would grant an individual amazing abilities, the cost is a Jedi's self and personality. In a way, its kind of like having a friend who is sober vs. a friend who is drunk. They are technically still the same person, but they act very differently.

    With that said, that is probably one of the reasons Jedi, Light or Dark, don't belong in any position of political power.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Siggma View Post


    This scene says it all. its a matter of perspective.
    This scene also shows that Anakin still has some twisted sense of morality. That's the Achilles heal of Darth Vader. He has given himself to the Dark Side, but for what he deemed a good cause, not only a thirst for personal power : because he feared to lose his wife like he has lost his mother, because he wanted peace and order in the galaxy (discussions with Padme in Attack of the Clone, with Luke in Empire Strikes Back). The Emperor doesn't give a damned about good or evil. All he wants is power. Luke Skywalker has bet on this small, twisted remnant of morality in Vader to bring him back to the Light Side.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  12. #72
    OP, you think a society that is strong is good. Fair point.

    Most people in the world will argue that a society that is free is good. When these two things become mutually exclusive, the people will choose freedom.

  13. #73
    Do you not start as a slave in TOR when playing Empire ? Do ppl nowdays take slavery as something justifiable ?

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  14. #74
    Warchief WarpedAcorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    Do you not start as a slave in TOR when playing Empire ? Do ppl nowdays take slavery as something justifiable ?
    In the Sith Inquisitor line, yes.


    I have to scratch my head at the second question though. Most reasonable people of this day and age (Real World) would say slavery is wrong. That is a product of our social norms. Go back 2 thousand years and ask the same question to the variety of cultures. The answer will vary from culture to culture.

  15. #75
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    They may be closer to Evil than the Republic, but at least they aren't idiots who constantly fuck themselves up like before mentioned Republic... Urgh I hate the Republic.....
    *broken link*
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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venziir View Post
    They may be closer to Evil than the Republic, but at least they aren't idiots who constantly fuck themselves up like before mentioned Republic... Urgh I hate the Republic.....
    Remind why Bane implemented the rule of two?

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk View Post
    Remind why Bane implemented the rule of two?

    Bull's eye! In the EU, the diverse incarnations of the Empire usually collapse because of infighting. It's true from the Great Hyperspace War to the New Sith War.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk View Post
    Remind why Bane implemented the rule of two?
    Because he realized that instead of the apprentice growing stronger than the master multiple weaker apprentices would band together to defeat the master leaving you with lots of weak sith.

    Or something like that.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakokun View Post
    Because he realized that instead of the apprentice growing stronger than the master multiple weaker apprentices would band together to defeat the master leaving you with lots of weak sith.

    Or something like that.
    Nope it was because he knew due to the constant in fighting the Sith order would never grow strong and would end up collapsing.
    Edit: So I suppose your answer is correct just worded differently

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolverk View Post
    Remind why Bane implemented the rule of two?
    I was too busy trying to remember when he ever talked about this rule in Dark Knight Rises, lol.

    /facepalm

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