Why exactly is the Empire/Sith bad?

[Deleted]

I was too busy trying to remember when he ever talked about this rule in Dark Knight Rises, lol.

/facepalm

But if he did talk about it he would have done it in that cool voice

[Kelimbror]

But if he did talk about it he would have done it in that cool voice

I knoooooow. Eff, I have to watch that movie tonight now.

[RohanV]

Except that in feudalism, a vassal that would try to kill his lord, or betray him, would be considered a felon and be stripped of rank and possession by his lord successor or the King. A Sith apprentice that kills or betrays his master does what is expected of him.

Not if the vassal is successful, and no one more powerful objects. There are plenty of cases where a king looks the other way when a lesser noble takes out another noble, if it was in the king's interests.

Also, in feudalism, you may be the strongest and have all the qualities in the world, if you were born a commoner, you'll die as a commoner. Unless you have a lot of luck.

And in the Empire, you may be the strongest and have all the qualities in the world, if you were born a non-Force user, you'll die as a commoner. This is the entire point of the Agent storyline.

Rather than bloodline, the Empire uses the Force to determine its aristocracy. But it's still an aristocracy set above the commoners.

[Argroth]

The nazis were hatin' on dem jews (and others) because, in their mind, jews (etc.) are 'weaker', and thus, inferior. That isn't a whole lot different than what you just descibed. Just saying.

That's pretty much it yet people are saying that the empire isn't so bad.

Seeing all these people makes it a lot clearer how hitler got into power in the first place. A lot of naive people pretending that the concept is good and there is no way it will go sour... As soon as those people go bad they sy it's not how it all works but it seems pretty clear to me that is how it works in the empire/sith. It's not happy days until someone goes evil, it's just less evil until someone steps up to be more evil.

I sinserly hope the people thinking the empire isn't so bad don't vote.

[Kelimbror]

I sinserly hope the people thinking the empire isn't so bad don't vote.

They will next election, where we elect the Republican overlord to hand out guns to school children in order to defend themselves while making sure that poor people never amount to anything.

It might as well be the rising of the Sith Empire.

[Linkedblade]

They will next election, where we elect the Republican overlord to hand out guns to school children in order to defend themselves while making sure that poor people never amount to anything.

It might as well be the rising of the Sith Empire.

Oh I so love such blissful sarcasm.

---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 07:06 PM ----------

The empire isn't "bad." They happen to have a form of government where only one person is in charge. That isn't a bad thing so long as the leader is benevolent. I don't think the Emporer is that benevolent as he doesn't want peace and is out for blood after the jedi kill his son.

[Argroth]

In the Sith Inquisitor line, yes.


I have to scratch my head at the second question though. Most reasonable people of this day and age (Real World) would say slavery is wrong. That is a product of our social norms. Go back 2 thousand years and ask the same question to the variety of cultures. The answer will vary from culture to culture.

surprisingly we are smarter today.

We are moving away from the dumb/evil past of yesterday. Moving away from Empires bad ways.

Because of it we have made many strides, not everything is perfect but things as a whole are much better.

---------- Post added 2013-01-12 at 12:14 AM ----------

Oh I so love such blissful sarcasm.

---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 07:06 PM ----------

The empire isn't "bad." They happen to have a form of government where only one person is in charge. That isn't a bad thing so long as the leader is benevolent. I don't think the Emporer is that benevolent as he doesn't want peace and is out for blood after the jedi kill his son.

Beacuse so many people who get absolute power stay pure and benevolent right?

Absolute Power corrupts absolutely. For that reason right there no one should get absolute power.

Once the empire crushes society beneath it's boot it's not just gonna all magically work out. Things will be just as bad if not worse then before, espeicially since the Empire is so filled with corrupt people and sith already.

[notorious98]

I agree with every word you just said. And no this is not me trolling im dead serious.
Society as a whole has become pitiful, weak, fat and just dumb. Look at lions in the wild.. If one lion gets injured or is weak and falls behind.. well sorry buddy but see ya later. In other words.. Long live the sith!

We lived in a society like that. Then we evolved into the smartest species on the planet. Now we don't live in a society like that. It's called "civilization". We live in one for a reason. If we didn't and anarchy reigned supreme, your family may have been one of the first to go. Be thankful that you live in that kind of world.

---------- Post added 2013-01-13 at 10:47 AM ----------

They will next election, where we elect the Republican overlord to hand out guns to school children in order to defend themselves while making sure that poor people never amount to anything.

It might as well be the rising of the Sith Empire.

To me, it's just as bad as letting our economy fall into the abyss, making everybody "poor people" who won't amount to anything. Republican, Democrat, pick your poison because it's the same poison with a different wrapper.

[Arlee]

I know it's an easy correlation to make, but lets try not to let this topic drift off to Off-Topic land and keep with Star Wars universe examples.

[ariakul]

Years ago, there was a research paper online about why the Empire is good, it was a great read. I don't have the link anymore though.

[Argroth]

Years ago, there was a research paper online about why the Empire is good, it was a great read. I don't have the link anymore though.

Many years ago there was also researchers saying smoking was good for you. How wrong they were...

[Kelimbror]

Years ago, there was a research paper online about why the Empire is good, it was a great read. I don't have the link anymore though.

Implying good vs bad is framing the story of two factions as a moral and ethical comparison. Regardless of what you believe in, it has come to be that ethics = human rights in regards to interactions with people. Having a government wantonly murder people in order to have more power will never fall under a good light with human rights.

We had that once. It was called the Holocaust.

So unless you can stand up and publicly admit you support the Holocaust and Hitler, then don't try and spin that the Empire is good. Dumbest logical fallacy ever.

[ariakul]

Many years ago there was also researchers saying smoking was good for you. How wrong they were...

Well, according to the german bierstube (spelling?) by my house, drinking beer is healthy. I dread the day someone says that is incorrect. I am maintaing my "healthy" lifestyle. lol.

---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 07:16 PM ----------

Implying good vs bad is framing the story of two factions as a moral and ethical comparison. Regardless of what you believe in, it has come to be that ethics = human rights in regards to interactions with people. Having a government wantonly murder people in order to have more power will never fall under a good light with human rights.

We had that once. It was called the Holocaust.

So unless you can stand up and publicly admit you support the Holocaust and Hitler, then don't try and spin that the Empire is good. Dumbest logical fallacy ever.

? I'm not trying to spin anything.....................simply stated some research paper online was a good read!

Just like how the discussion with union workers on the Death Star in "Clerks" was an interesting take also.

[Kelimbror]

? I'm not trying to spin anything.....................simply stated some research paper online was a good read!

It was a collective you, not a you-you. I was only using your quote to piggyback on.

[Psychlon]

Many years ago there was also researchers saying smoking was good for you. How wrong they were...

did you mean this one?

[Mormolyce]

They are realists and believe "Peace is a lie" that is pretty much a fact is there will never be peace unless you defeat all of your enemies. They embrace Darwinism. People are either made stronger through their trials and experiences or they remain weak and the weak are either delt with or they die on their own because they are fails and cant handle their trials. Again this is good. There is no place in society for the weak and worthless as they only make society as a whole weaker. So why are the Sith and the Empire as a whole considered bad? Also the whole comparing them to Nazis isnt exactly fair. The Sith dont discriminate against anyone, well other than the weak and useless. Everyone is given a chance to prove themselves useful.

Because of all the things you just said?

The Empire is your straight up classic evil, Star Wars has a black and white morality. Hell, it's called the Light and Dark side of the Force... little hint there...

It's only after decades of fanon and reimagining and modifications required for game mechanical purposes that the Empire (and the Sith) could be considered anything other than the bad guys.

[Argroth]

did you mean this one?

Dunno if you misquoted but if you didn't.

I wasn't implying the research paper didn't exist I was saying just because there is a research paper on it dosn't mean that it is fact. Especially in this circumstance since it is opinion about a fictional organization.

[kynthrus]

Many people are mixing up Sith and Empire... While at some points they are part of the same party, The Empire is not Sith.

[Mormolyce]

It could be argued that the Light Side of the force "corrupts" just as much as the Dark Side. From what I've gathered from the Star Wars universe, the more in touch one is with the Force on either side, the more they are influenced in their personality and actions. So while The Force would grant an individual amazing abilities, the cost is a Jedi's self and personality. In a way, its kind of like having a friend who is sober vs. a friend who is drunk. They are technically still the same person, but they act very differently.

With that said, that is probably one of the reasons Jedi, Light or Dark, don't belong in any position of political power.

That's not right, the Force doesn't tell you what to do. You decide on a course of action and the Force guides your hands to that goal.

But at this point Star Wars canon is such a disaster why even bother arguing about it

[Psychlon]

Dunno if you misquoted but if you didn't.

I wasn't implying the research paper didn't exist I was saying just because there is a research paper on it dosn't mean that it is fact. Especially in this circumstance since it is opinion about a fictional organization.

I'm pointing out that, if you read the article, it's a more comical approach to a similar subject because GL made the empire look evil/ rebellion look good. That's where it is originated from and to argue if "it is really like this" is pointless. This particular article is not really a research comparable to any "research" you were talking about, not to mention that these kind of researches are mostly paid by the company which benefits from it.

I would describe the Sith Empire (original Sith living on their planet) as being true evil while the Sith Empire we experience in the game, apart from the "Sith part" is basically doing what they are told and if you call that evil you'd have to call us all evil because I truely doubt that a lot of people wouldn't do exactly what they've been told if they are under pressure.

Let's not forget that it's a war... and playing both sides in swtor, both factions are just as corrupt trying to get the upper hand. If force chocking someone is "evil" so is waterboarding prisoners.