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  1. #41
    This isn't Cata. RNG is no longer the major complaint about Ret.

    In fact, the only RNG in our rotation currently is Art of War, and Exo is instant without it, so even when it doesn't proc you don't suffer much. We have a fair amount of room to have more RNG without getting anywhere near the level of luck-dependence that was Cata.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Meteoric View Post
    This isn't Cata. RNG is no longer the major complaint about Ret.

    In fact, the only RNG in our rotation currently is Art of War, and Exo is instant without it, so even when it doesn't proc you don't suffer much. We have a fair amount of room to have more RNG without getting anywhere near the level of luck-dependence that was Cata.
    I bet there are still people who only use it on aow procs.

  3. #43
    This is 100% trash. Have the developers played retribution PVP?

    We need a serious buff. and they are nerfing repentance? come on.. what the hell blizz.

  4. #44
    While the increased RNG is not much appreciated, the overall effect is going to be massive. Unlike many of the other set bonuses this tier, these effect each other. Nabbing the 4P proc and taking the time to drop an Exo will make that TV hit like a freaking train... and this is not very difficult to line up, nor react to. Assume that the 4P proc hangs out for at least 10 seconds, you have better than a 50% chance to be able to line them up. It also plays well with our talents, favoring Holy Avenger phases (to the point of delaying activation to wait for a proc, follow with HA-Exo-TV-CS-TV-Judge).

    Personally, can't wait.

  5. #45
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    I have a question about how the 2set bonus effects Execution Sentence.

    I've heard from several credible paladins on these forums that when ES is cast, it takes a snapshot of your current buffs, and ticks as if those buffs are there throughout the duration of ES (Example 1: You cast ES with 5 sec left on your trinket, your ES continues to benefit from it after the trink expires.)(Example 2: You cast ES w/o the trinket, and then the trinket procs before ES is over, the remaining ES tick won't benefit from the trinket.)

    Now, my question is if anyone knows whether or not ES also takes a snapshot of the bosses debuffs (in this case, the taking 6% increased Holy Damage). Would the bosses debuffs work the same way, where you just have to cast ES while the debuff is on, and all ticks will benefit from it, even after the debuff expires, or would we instead wait to cast Exo when there is 6 or less second left on ES ticks?

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    I have a question about how the 2set bonus effects Execution Sentence.

    I've heard from several credible paladins on these forums that when ES is cast, it takes a snapshot of your current buffs, and ticks as if those buffs are there throughout the duration of ES (Example 1: You cast ES with 5 sec left on your trinket, your ES continues to benefit from it after the trink expires.)(Example 2: You cast ES w/o the trinket, and then the trinket procs before ES is over, the remaining ES tick won't benefit from the trinket.)

    Now, my question is if anyone knows whether or not ES also takes a snapshot of the bosses debuffs (in this case, the taking 6% increased Holy Damage). Would the bosses debuffs work the same way, where you just have to cast ES while the debuff is on, and all ticks will benefit from it, even after the debuff expires, or would we instead wait to cast Exo when there is 6 or less second left on ES ticks?
    Inquisition is not included in the snapshot; it affects Execution Sentence whenever you have it up. I would assume the same thing from the T15 2-piece.

  7. #47
    Bloodsail Admiral Elovan's Avatar
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    GC - The Retribution 4pc set bonus has changed. It now has a chance for Hammer of the Righteous or Crusader Strike to cause your next Divine Storm to cause extra damage to your target. The idea being that you might swap from TV to DS when you get the proc, so that the RNG is something you can actually do something with rather than it just being RNG for extra damage.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Moradim View Post
    rng on top of rng (exo can reset affecting 2pc, 4pc is rng again)

    I love how the devs listen to what paladins are asking for!
    I think every single set bonus in T15 is at least 1/2 RNG. So this is kinda meh.

    Elovan, source?

  9. #49
    Bloodsail Admiral Elovan's Avatar
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  10. #50
    Moderator Zoma's Avatar
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    So if I'm understanding this correctly, the proc pushes DS in front of TV on single target?

  11. #51
    Bloodsail Admiral Elovan's Avatar
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    Looks like it, also means the 4 piece has a use for aoe as well, instead of being purely single target.

  12. #52
    Not a fan of the set set bonus, we don't need to complicate our rotation any further.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Elovan View Post
    GC - The Retribution 4pc set bonus has changed. It now has a chance for Hammer of the Righteous or Crusader Strike to cause your next Divine Storm to cause extra damage to your target. The idea being that you might swap from TV to DS when you get the proc, so that the RNG is something you can actually do something with rather than it just being RNG for extra damage.
    I'm not sure If I really like that change. It will really depend on how much extra damage DS will do when it procs. If the 4 set only makes DS do extra damage when there is more than 1 target I don't think it will be very good at all.
    Last edited by nyc81991; 2013-01-15 at 06:23 AM.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Elovan View Post
    Looks like it, also means the 4 piece has a use for aoe as well, instead of being purely single target.
    The only reason they would ever change to this over the previous single-target iteration is if there's going to be a lot of AOE/cleaving in Tier 15. I don't see why he added the extra "so that the RNG is something you can actually do something with rather than it just being RNG for extra damage," though... doesn't make sense to me. And he did say target, so maybe I'm completely wrong and it only affects your selected target, in which case, this is worse than the TV version.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    The only reason they would ever change to this over the previous single-target iteration is if there's going to be a lot of AOE/cleaving in Tier 15. I don't see why he added the extra "so that the RNG is something you can actually do something with rather than it just being RNG for extra damage," though... doesn't make sense to me. And he did say target, so maybe I'm completely wrong and it only affects your selected target, in which case, this is worse than the TV version.
    I was actually looking foward to getting huge TV hits when it was all holy damage. It would have made hitting it fun in my opinion. But unless DS ends up hitting harder than TV for single target I don't really like this change at all.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikita88 View Post
    With the t15 4p bonus, we will go for Divine Purpose i reckon. Haste will still be the best secondary stat, or will mastery push ahead?
    Divine Purpose would just mean more unbuffed TVs. Could go for Holy Avenger, but that would encourage massive haste stacking to get CS down to the point where you could CS-TV-CS-TV etc. With the 2pc thrown in I think Sanc Wrath might be the clear winner since you're guaranteed holy damage on Hammer of Wrath already and it also procs mastery.

    GC - The Retribution 4pc set bonus has changed. It now has a chance for Hammer of the Righteous or Crusader Strike to cause your next Divine Storm to cause extra damage to your target. The idea being that you might swap from TV to DS when you get the proc, so that the RNG is something you can actually do something with rather than it just being RNG for extra damage.
    Well damn, that's just a pain in the butt. At least it addresses our incredibly poor AoE, too bad by the time we get to 4pc T15 the expansion will be 2/3 over!
    Last edited by Lumineus; 2013-01-15 at 06:43 AM.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddlesnarf View Post
    Not a fan of the set set bonus, we don't need to complicate our rotation any further.
    our "rotation" is pretty boring and easy....

    kinda wish DP would become base and make me do something other than smashing keys and watching something on my other monitor while I raid
    anyways, new 4p seems ehhh, it'll be fun to manage CS>next global do I hit X or Y while keeping myself gcd locked

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Therm View Post
    our "rotation" is pretty boring and easy....

    kinda wish DP would become base and make me do something other than smashing keys and watching something on my other monitor while I raid
    anyways, new 4p seems ehhh, it'll be fun to manage CS>next global do I hit X or Y while keeping myself gcd locked
    Oh really? Could you kindly show me your hc logs where you perform that boring and easy rotation, good sir? Your standing will be interesting to look at as well.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Therm View Post
    our "rotation" is pretty boring and easy....

    kinda wish DP would become base and make me do something other than smashing keys and watching something on my other monitor while I raid
    anyways, new 4p seems ehhh, it'll be fun to manage CS>next global do I hit X or Y while keeping myself gcd locked
    If DP was baseline we would be in a great spot in terms of sustained dps. It would also add something to the rotation like you said. The only reason they haven't made it baseline is because they think Ret paladins didn't like it before. But now that we generate holy power much faster than we did in Cata it would fill a gap.

    I think if GC hears more Ret paladins asking for DP baseline it will counter what they heard in Cata and they might do it.
    Last edited by nyc81991; 2013-01-15 at 07:30 AM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Megraam View Post
    Oh really? Could you kindly show me your hc logs where you perform that boring and easy rotation, good sir? Your standing will be interesting to look at as well.
    does someone need a hug?


    also, yeah, Nyc, I agree. DP wouldn't mess with our burst so much since you're already using every other global for HoW or TV(running SW vs HA) and having the extra free finishers would push our sustained dps without making us way too strong
    Last edited by Therm; 2013-01-15 at 07:50 AM.

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