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  1. #161
    my mission is more important than your mission and my mission is to press tv even more. Before i hit my tv button 3 times in a gcd now with proc i want to do it 4 times, so I will hit even harder baam

    But in the end I dont like the set bonus, thats not about tv or storm, thats because your class is lacking about damage without the setbonus and so there will be problems in pvp. Easy problem to fix, hate it when they have to do it with gear.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by nyc81991 View Post
    I think you need to learn that everyone has different opinions and they might not always match yours. To me the set bonus is going to be more fun and interesting. To you it might not. Blizzard obviously thought that the original 4set was better so they went back to it. There is almost no reason to argue about it.

    Also, For a Moderator you aren't acting very civil. Maybe I'm reading what you are trying to say wrong but saying,




    is totally uncalled for.
    Your point again comes down to "OMG BIG NUMBERS EQUALZ MORE FUN". Unfortunately, Blizzard obviously thought the second was better, wanted to try it, didn't even get a chance to because feedback was so overly in favor of the original one, because there's too many people that thought "OMG BIG NUMBERS FUCK YAH TV" and let Blizzard know long before a numbers pass was even done on them. Hell we don't even know how much damage that Lightning Strike was supposed to even do (or even if it crit independently or not).

    I miss people that I could actually argue a point with here, someone that I could challenge on, that the flaws of mechanics should come first, numbers can be tuned later. Shame I was hoping to get an actual valuable conversation here, because it's not coming from you when this is really the only point you seem to make. There can be no debate, no moving forward.





    To everyone else talking about a glyphed Divine Storm, I wouldn't get your hopes up. Look at where it fits in the toolkit right now, as an AoE finisher. It's underused, yes, but it has a well defined role. If it starts being viable single target damage wise via something like that Focused Shield glyph, then it either is a) completely useless because it doesn't outdamage TV, or makes TV useless because it's overpowered.

    It also cannot lose its Holy Power finisher status (and go to mana based, cooldown based, proc based, whatever) because.... a) Then Ret would not have an Area-Effect finisher. You say this isn't really a big deal, but Cataclysm had this felt, and hell even Protection is feeling this on live as we speak. Having the Holy Power and not having a viable way to burn it in an AoE situation sucks. And B) If it's readily available and not limited via Holy Power, it has to hit like a wet noodle. We already had one of these for how long? Look at the embarassment that was Holy Wrath in the rotation.

    With Ret actually having a secondary resource, doesn't matter how smoothly or inherently flawed its design is, as long as that design is in place, Divine Storm shifting from where it is (now that Ret has Hammer to AoE generate) would only do harm of robbing the spec of an underused but still crucial tool. It really can't happen. It may be visited in a set bonus in the future to touch upon this idea again, or a glyph that lets it finally actually apply Seal damage for once (can dream can't we?) but a glyph that brings it into single target dps would come at too great a cost.
    ~Former Priest/Guild Wars 2 Moderator~
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  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Your point again comes down to "OMG BIG NUMBERS EQUALZ MORE FUN". Unfortunately, Blizzard obviously thought the second was better, wanted to try it, didn't even get a chance to because feedback was so overly in favor of the original one, because there's too many people that thought "OMG BIG NUMBERS FUCK YAH TV" and let Blizzard know long before a numbers pass was even done on them. Hell we don't even know how much damage that Lightning Strike was supposed to even do (or even if it crit independently or not).

    I miss people that I could actually argue a point with here, someone that I could challenge on, that the flaws of mechanics should come first, numbers can be tuned later. Shame I was hoping to get an actual valuable conversation here, because it's not coming from you when this is really the only point you seem to make. There can be no debate, no moving forward.





    To everyone else talking about a glyphed Divine Storm, I wouldn't get your hopes up. Look at where it fits in the toolkit right now, as an AoE finisher. It's underused, yes, but it has a well defined role. If it starts being viable single target damage wise via something like that Focused Shield glyph, then it either is a) completely useless because it doesn't outdamage TV, or makes TV useless because it's overpowered.

    It also cannot lose its Holy Power finisher status (and go to mana based, cooldown based, proc based, whatever) because.... a) Then Ret would not have an Area-Effect finisher. You say this isn't really a big deal, but Cataclysm had this felt, and hell even Protection is feeling this on live as we speak. Having the Holy Power and not having a viable way to burn it in an AoE situation sucks. And B) If it's readily available and not limited via Holy Power, it has to hit like a wet noodle. We already had one of these for how long? Look at the embarassment that was Holy Wrath in the rotation.

    With Ret actually having a secondary resource, doesn't matter how smoothly or inherently flawed its design is, as long as that design is in place, Divine Storm shifting from where it is (now that Ret has Hammer to AoE generate) would only do harm of robbing the spec of an underused but still crucial tool. It really can't happen. It may be visited in a set bonus in the future to touch upon this idea again, or a glyph that lets it finally actually apply Seal damage for once (can dream can't we?) but a glyph that brings it into single target dps would come at too great a cost.
    Again, you have to learn that other people have different opinions than you. Some people think that the 4 set affecting Tv is going to be more fun because they didn't want to use DS in a single target fight. It is fine that you would have liked the second version better, no ones telling you that you can't like it. All I'm saying is for me Tv doing holy damage 40% of the time is better than DS doing an extra lightning strike for 250% weapon damage.

    And also, it isn't just that Tv will hit hard. Its that it works very well with our mastery and plays together with the t15 set 2 set aswell as Inq. People will want to make sure than they have the 6% holy damage from Exo up before they use the proc and they will need to manage not hitting Cs when the proc is up so they don't waste it.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    To everyone else talking about a glyphed Divine Storm, I wouldn't get your hopes up.
    When Ghostcrawler personally tells us that Divine Storm might make its way back into single-target rotations, perhaps via a glyph, it seems reasonable to speculate that might happen. I would agree that a "DS is now a single-target attack" glyph is improbable, but a glyph in the same vein as the erstwhile 4pc - that is, a glyph that makes DS worth using single-target when something procs/you have enough stacks of a buff/the target is a Pisces under a waning crescent moon/whatever, but doesn't replace TV ALL the time - would accomplish the stated goal, without taking away our AoE finisher or invalidating TV.

  5. #165
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    This DS-Glyph won't make it live because its against blizzards new philosophy of glyphs. Glyphs are not supposed to be mandatory, so a single target DS glyph won't in no way deal more DMG than TV and if it deals less DMG than TV no one will ever use it. They possibly create a glyph with a procc to use DS after, but I think no one will use it too with 4PC.

  6. #166
    Yeah, that's why I said all it would do is basically make DS into TV. Although devs violated their glyph policy all over the place already (show me a hunter without Marked for Death...) and are already having to backpedal, making a couple of Warlock glyphs baseline because of it. Even Mass Exorcism and Double Jeopardy are kinda pushing it, but they probably get a pass because even with them Ret AoE is poor.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Your point again comes down to "OMG BIG NUMBERS EQUALZ MORE FUN". Unfortunately, Blizzard obviously thought the second was better, wanted to try it, didn't even get a chance to because feedback was so overly in favor of the original one, because there's too many people that thought "OMG BIG NUMBERS FUCK YAH TV" and let Blizzard know long before a numbers pass was even done on them. Hell we don't even know how much damage that Lightning Strike was supposed to even do
    Except it does equal more fun, and it changes the rotation at times. This isn't a perfect example but the warlock t11 4pc was one of my most favorite 4pc's of all time. All it did was make your next 2 fel flame hit 3x harder. These were instant cast nukes that extended your immolate (which was a pain to keep up at odd haste levels due to how short the duration was compared to the HoG cooldown before they extended the duration in t12) All it did was make these itty bitty fel flames do slightly more damage than a nuke, but they hit so hard in comparison and it was like free super nukes. A very fun set indeed. Kind of on the same level we are having our nuke (TV) turn into a super nuke on a fairly high proc chance. This combined with exo weaving will really put a higher skillcap on playing this class and pulling it off successfully will also be fun. Divine purpose being competitive with holy avenger and SW means more emphasis is on sustain instead of burst.

    I would also say we got a fairly interactive 4pc compared to many of the other 4sets. All of them are procs or passive improvements to certain cooldowns which will likely not even remotely effect the rotation or spell/stat priority.

    This will also help mastery scaling, synergize with the 2set better and have us not use an aoe spell on single target.

  8. #168
    we need to know the new rotation , i feel its kinda scrambled adding Ds lightning proc to the Rotation feels !! ahhhhhh im losing my mind

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Matrlx View Post
    we need to know the new rotation , i feel its kinda scrambled adding Ds lightning proc to the Rotation feels !! ahhhhhh im losing my mind
    Rotation will barely change at all, they reverted the 4set change.
    "Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were."
    Juseeh
    T11 WR: 115, T12 WR: 45, T14 WR:44, T15 WR:37, T16: WR:28

  10. #170

    Retribution T15 4-piece Reverted

    What is everyone's thoughts on this?
    Do you think it is better than the 255% nature proc on Divine Storm?
    Do you think it is more fun? (It may change the rotation a little bit)
    Which bonus would you prefer to make it to live?

  11. #171
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    It is probably better, but less fun. I loved wrath specifically because of divine storming everything and everyone.
    My Warlords of Draenor Screenshots so far!
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  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti View Post
    Your point again comes down to "OMG BIG NUMBERS EQUALZ MORE FUN". Unfortunately, Blizzard obviously thought the second was better, wanted to try it, didn't even get a chance to because feedback was so overly in favor of the original one, because there's too many people that thought "OMG BIG NUMBERS FUCK YAH TV" and let Blizzard know long before a numbers pass was even done on them. Hell we don't even know how much damage that Lightning Strike was supposed to even do (or even if it crit independently or not).

    I miss people that I could actually argue a point with here, someone that I could challenge on, that the flaws of mechanics should come first, numbers can be tuned later. Shame I was hoping to get an actual valuable conversation here, because it's not coming from you when this is really the only point you seem to make. There can be no debate, no moving forward.





    To everyone else talking about a glyphed Divine Storm, I wouldn't get your hopes up. Look at where it fits in the toolkit right now, as an AoE finisher. It's underused, yes, but it has a well defined role. If it starts being viable single target damage wise via something like that Focused Shield glyph, then it either is a) completely useless because it doesn't outdamage TV, or makes TV useless because it's overpowered.

    It also cannot lose its Holy Power finisher status (and go to mana based, cooldown based, proc based, whatever) because.... a) Then Ret would not have an Area-Effect finisher. You say this isn't really a big deal, but Cataclysm had this felt, and hell even Protection is feeling this on live as we speak. Having the Holy Power and not having a viable way to burn it in an AoE situation sucks. And B) If it's readily available and not limited via Holy Power, it has to hit like a wet noodle. We already had one of these for how long? Look at the embarassment that was Holy Wrath in the rotation.

    With Ret actually having a secondary resource, doesn't matter how smoothly or inherently flawed its design is, as long as that design is in place, Divine Storm shifting from where it is (now that Ret has Hammer to AoE generate) would only do harm of robbing the spec of an underused but still crucial tool. It really can't happen. It may be visited in a set bonus in the future to touch upon this idea again, or a glyph that lets it finally actually apply Seal damage for once (can dream can't we?) but a glyph that brings it into single target dps would come at too great a cost.
    All I have to say is this:

    Glyph of Divine Verdict (Minor): Your Templar's Verdict now uses the Divine Storm animation.

    Problem. Solved.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorn View Post
    All I have to say is this:

    Glyph of Divine Verdict (Minor): Your Templar's Verdict now uses the Divine Storm animation.

    Problem. Solved.
    Ya took the words right out of my mouth.

    On another note, I like the 4-piece but the damage gaps between proc and no proc can be huge. The other day I went from a 200k crit no proc with every damage buff I had to a 600k crit with the 4-piece proc'd

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by ExtremeActionTess View Post
    Ya took the words right out of my mouth.

    On another note, I like the 4-piece but the damage gaps between proc and no proc can be huge. The other day I went from a 200k crit no proc with every damage buff I had to a 600k crit with the 4-piece proc'd
    It also has the pleasant side effect of being even more of an increase when no sunder armor/expose armor is present.

  15. #175
    Is TV going to be better than DS for 2 or even 3 targets now? Are we looking into another horrible AoE tier for ret?

  16. #176
    We're looking into a bad tier for ret overall i think..

    I've only now gotten to look at the various fights and..

    1. boss - Shafts Melee
    2. boss - AOE heavy fight with burst elements
    3. boss - Lots and lots of target switching

    Looking at 4th boss in a moment without much hope. When you are a spec that only really excel at single target and burst fights..well not many raid encounters will be kind to us

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by Wysmark View Post
    We're looking into a bad tier for ret overall i think..

    I've only now gotten to look at the various fights and..

    1. boss - Shafts Melee
    2. boss - AOE heavy fight with burst elements
    3. boss - Lots and lots of target switching

    Looking at 4th boss in a moment without much hope. When you are a spec that only really excel at single target and burst fights..well not many raid encounters will be kind to us
    tortos, the 4th boss, is a fight with pretty bursty sessions: the boss summons turtles, which you need to kick at the boss when he does an attack. after that, the boss takes 25% extra damage for 20 seconds. I'm not sure if it stacks.
    Because I want to say this every single day but don't want it to get a drag:
    1) The ingame store will only sell timesaver items. It won't affect balance.
    2) No, getting to 100 in half the time isn't pay2win. raids don't start until the second week, everyone has time to get there.
    4) getting charms faster is also not pay2win. getting those is easy, but not everyone has the time or want for dailies.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by Wysmark View Post
    We're looking into a bad tier for ret overall i think..

    I've only now gotten to look at the various fights and..

    1. boss - Shafts Melee
    2. boss - AOE heavy fight with burst elements
    3. boss - Lots and lots of target switching

    Looking at 4th boss in a moment without much hope. When you are a spec that only really excel at single target and burst fights..well not many raid encounters will be kind to us
    If anything, boss 1 is melee friendly.
    "Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were."
    Juseeh
    T11 WR: 115, T12 WR: 45, T14 WR:44, T15 WR:37, T16: WR:28

  19. #179
    Not sure why there would be tons of switching on Boss 3. If I was RL I'd probably just sit melee on Mar'li for interrupt duty and put ranged on the empowered one. At best you'd have to pull off occasionally to stun/snare/kill a loa.
    OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

    And His disciples said unto Him, "Can we get Kings instead?"

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