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  1. #1

    So... Blade Flurry now hits up to 4 targets

    I guess thats what was missing from the amazing nerf, 100 to 25 % dmg, if it hits up to 4 targets it makes more sense.

    imo, would be better to up it to like 75-80%, and the dmg is split between targets, up to 4?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Improtaight View Post
    I guess thats what was missing from the amazing nerf, 100 to 25 % dmg, if it hits up to 4 targets it makes more sense.

    imo, would be better to up it to like 75-80%, and the dmg is split between targets, up to 4?
    That would just make it OP for AoE fights as well as cleave fights.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by whathump View Post
    That would just make it OP for AoE fights as well as cleave fights.
    Yeah stupid me, thats sort of how it is now for 2 targets... meh

  4. #4
    I like that change. The best design imo would be:
    - assassin best for fights with many mobs due to spreading poisons
    - combat best for fights with a few mobs due to blade flurry
    - sub best for a fight with 1 mob

    all that within a small margin (more of a flavour than real gameplay thing)

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by whathump View Post
    That would just make it OP for AoE fights as well as cleave fights.
    Are you serious?

    It will take 4 targets to equal what it already does on live, considering there are 5 targets in range. Cleaving with 5+ targets is flat out horrible AOE compared to pretty much any class in the game. Do you do awesome damage cleaving two targets on live when there is an AOE pack? Nope. Will you do awesome damage cleaving if this goes live when there is an AOE pack? Nope.

    So, now we have horrible AOE and a horrible cleave. lol This solved absolutely nothing.

  6. #6
    BF is becomming a situational ability and half-decent aoe. Sounds good to me, i hate to go combat just because there are 2 targets.

    Agree anyway that this has solved nothign of the biggest problems - they stripped away the role of combat, leaving it with a shadow of what it was capable of doing.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Improtaight View Post
    Yeah stupid me, thats sort of how it is now for 2 targets... meh
    Sorry, misread the second part of your post as 70-80% to all targets, not divided.
    Last edited by whathump; 2013-01-10 at 09:35 AM.

  8. #8
    does it mean you hit the main target for 100% dmg and 3/4 other for 25%? or it all all 4 for 25% of the dmg and 20% energy nerf?

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by loki504 View Post
    does it mean you hit the main target for 100% dmg and 3/4 other for 25%? or it all all 4 for 25% of the dmg and 20% energy nerf?
    2 targets: 100% main target + 25% secondary target
    3 targets: 100% MT + 25% ST + 25% TT
    4 targets: 100% MT + 25% ST + 25% TT + 25% FT
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  10. #10
    still not a valid spec for a lot of boss fights, just like BF before, i will spec it only for an add-heavy fight.

    I actually like playing Combat more than Assa, you have more to do, more to look for, i like the fact that SB and AR go down with the same CD's.... but its just not worth hurting my finger with all the SS spam lol

  11. #11
    BF does not apply poisons, so it will be highly situational.

    If there are two targets, BF will be a miniscule dps increase (but you will still use it if you have 100% cleave uptime).

    If there are three or four targets, BF will be very good. Assassination will be similar, especially on mobs with high health, but probably less good.

    I suspect that on 5-6 targets Assassination will be better, especially if mobs have high health (e.g. Wind Lord).

    Also remember that BF requires you to be in melee range of targets, and so if mobs are at all spread out, BF will lose some of its potential damage.

    This change is good overall. It improves Combat's aoe, and nerfs its two target cleave, where the spec was completely overpowered.

    I like it overall. I hope they buff Combat's single target damage a bit more, so that it becomes a competitive single target spec, rather than a gimmicky cleave spec.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    BF does not apply poisons, so it will be highly situational.

    If there are two targets, BF will be a miniscule dps increase (but you will still use it if you have 100% cleave uptime).

    If there are three or four targets, BF will be very good. Assassination will be similar, especially on mobs with high health, but probably less good.

    I suspect that on 5-6 targets Assassination will be better, especially if mobs have high health (e.g. Wind Lord).

    Also remember that BF requires you to be in melee range of targets, and so if mobs are at all spread out, BF will lose some of its potential damage.

    This change is good overall. It improves Combat's aoe, and nerfs its two target cleave, where the spec was completely overpowered.

    I like it overall. I hope they buff Combat's single target damage a bit more, so that it becomes a competitive single target spec, rather than a gimmicky cleave spec.
    This does nothing for combat's aoe vs live.

    100% primary + 25% *4 // 100% primary + 100% secondary -> equal damage output, but with the added twist of needing 5 targets all within melee range.

    Take the 5 pack before feng. Toggle on BF and dps them. Where do you stand vs aoe'ers/other cleaves? That's what combat will do next patch on them still. Current bad aoe will be next patch's bad aoe too. Nothing is improving over what we've got on live.

    @ 1 target = Pick best single target spec
    @ 2 targets = Mut multidot > BF ptr
    @ 3 targets = rogues have no viable cleave vs warriors/dk's, comparatively
    @ 4 targets = BF mediocre but viable
    @ 5 targets+ = spec mut already.

    So... why be combat?

    As mut/sub, you get a weapon type that no other class uses, but as combat, you're taking them over 2 other specs. As combat next patch, your single target *might* be competitive with mut, but that's assuming KsP can be used optimally (it's a sizable chunk of dps now), and that's not always the case.

    Then of course there's that t15 4 piece bonus. Talk about a kick to the nads for combat there.

    So again I ask, why spec combat next patch, other than to hinder your raids' progress?

  13. #13
    Time to compose a Funeral Dirge for Combat, unless it actually gets that 5% AP (or more) which is absent from the latest release notes on the PTR.

    No complaints here, daggers for life.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    2 targets: 100% main target + 25% secondary target
    3 targets: 100% MT + 25% ST + 25% TT
    4 targets: 100% MT + 25% ST + 25% TT + 25% FT
    aah thats great to hear:P

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by stuntz View Post
    This does nothing for combat's aoe vs live.

    100% primary + 25% *4 // 100% primary + 100% secondary -> equal damage output, but with the added twist of needing 5 targets all within melee range.

    Take the 5 pack before feng. Toggle on BF and dps them. Where do you stand vs aoe'ers/other cleaves? That's what combat will do next patch on them still. Current bad aoe will be next patch's bad aoe too. Nothing is improving over what we've got on live.

    @ 1 target = Pick best single target spec
    @ 2 targets = Mut multidot > BF ptr
    @ 3 targets = rogues have no viable cleave vs warriors/dk's, comparatively
    @ 4 targets = BF mediocre but viable
    @ 5 targets+ = spec mut already.

    So... why be combat?

    As mut/sub, you get a weapon type that no other class uses, but as combat, you're taking them over 2 other specs. As combat next patch, your single target *might* be competitive with mut, but that's assuming KsP can be used optimally (it's a sizable chunk of dps now), and that's not always the case.

    Then of course there's that t15 4 piece bonus. Talk about a kick to the nads for combat there.

    So again I ask, why spec combat next patch, other than to hinder your raids' progress?
    i think this just sums everything for this thread lol, why take Combat, low single target compared to Assa, and u need like 4 targets to get a decent AoE dmg... but if we put aside the dmg, i would sattle for the same dmg as now, with MORE FUN, coz i'm getting real tired real fast... and Rogue is the only class i get tired of

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 01:18 PM ----------

    I think more people complained about "having to respec combat" for cleave fights, instead of saying its OP.
    if you play rogue, sub or assa, u HAVE to respec to Combat if you want to do good dmg, if not u're just medicore no matter how hard u try.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by stuntz View Post
    This does nothing for combat's aoe vs live.

    100% primary + 25% *4 // 100% primary + 100% secondary -> equal damage output, but with the added twist of needing 5 targets all within melee range.

    Take the 5 pack before feng. Toggle on BF and dps them. Where do you stand vs aoe'ers/other cleaves? That's what combat will do next patch on them still. Current bad aoe will be next patch's bad aoe too. Nothing is improving over what we've got on live.

    @ 1 target = Pick best single target spec
    @ 2 targets = Mut multidot > BF ptr
    @ 3 targets = rogues have no viable cleave vs warriors/dk's, comparatively
    @ 4 targets = BF mediocre but viable
    @ 5 targets+ = spec mut already.

    So... why be combat?

    As mut/sub, you get a weapon type that no other class uses, but as combat, you're taking them over 2 other specs. As combat next patch, your single target *might* be competitive with mut, but that's assuming KsP can be used optimally (it's a sizable chunk of dps now), and that's not always the case.

    Then of course there's that t15 4 piece bonus. Talk about a kick to the nads for combat there.

    So again I ask, why spec combat next patch, other than to hinder your raids' progress?
    And if combat gets buffed to do the same single target damage as assassination with a, then, slightly better cleave, who in their right mind would still dual spec assassination and combat with their completely different stat priorities? Everyone would feel forced to go combat due to utility and we're back to square one.

    Nerfing combat's cleave doesn't accomplish anything other than putting us on the bench for 2-3-target fights in the foreseeable future.


    I think more people complained about "having to respec combat" for cleave fights, instead of saying its OP.
    if you play rogue, sub or assa, u HAVE to respec to Combat if you want to do good dmg, if not u're just medicore no matter how hard u try.
    And now we'll be mediocre even in combat spec, great.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    2 targets: 100% main target + 25% secondary target
    3 targets: 100% MT + 25% ST + 25% TT
    4 targets: 100% MT + 25% ST + 25% TT + 25% FT
    5 targets: 100% MT + 25% ST + 25% TT +25% FT + 25% 5thT

    Fixed that.
    Since tooltip says that it will hit 4 additional targets. Soo in aoe encounter (lets face it there will be one max 2 each X-pac. It will be mkay, othewise kinda useless, atleast comparison to Arms warrior cleave, which is still kinda powerfull.

  18. #18
    Therein lies the problem.

    As it currently stands, most raiding rogues are mainspec mut, and begrudgingly offspec combat it seems. Gives them strong single target and aoe from mut, and super cleave from combat.

    Next patch, rogues will be either Mut for single target/aoe and whatever they want offspec, or combat single target (depending on scaling and other factors like KsP viability and that 4 piece, which i see being a nightmare for combat) and a forced mut offspec for aoe. In bleeding edge guilds, rogues will be sat for a spec/class that can offer a viable cleave (and have some nice things like skull banner/AMZ/Brez/Aoe stun) on encounters that call for it.

    I'm not seeing how this is shaping up to be an improvement over the current situation honestly :/ Feels more like forced change for the sake of change because people complained.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Improtaight View Post
    I think more people complained about "having to respec combat" for cleave fights, instead of saying its OP.
    if you play rogue, sub or assa, u HAVE to respec to Combat if you want to do good dmg, if not u're just medicore no matter how hard u try.
    The current situation is a little more complex.

    Now we have a very OP cleave that with a minimal cost basically nearly doubles our damage - given this the strenght of BF anyway is greatly reduced by the fact that tehre aren't a lot of fights in which we make full use of it; Combat just feels the "offspec for when we need cleave".

    If you look in the opposite way, still Combat isn't covering a great role: anytime there's the opportunity to cleave, everyone goes combat because of the extreme effectiveness of the move.

    Whatever point you choose, Combat is a broken spec due to BF:
    1)most of the time behind the other two specs due to the addition of a cleave they don't have
    2)so good that becomes mandatory in certain situations

    Nerfing BF this way will solve the second point, but this won't automagically makes true the first one.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    The current situation is a little more complex.

    Now we have a very OP cleave that with a minimal cost basically nearly doubles our damage - given this the strenght of BF anyway is greatly reduced by the fact that tehre aren't a lot of fights in which we make full use of it; Combat just feels the "offspec for when we need cleave".

    If you look in the opposite way, still Combat isn't covering a great role: anytime there's the opportunity to cleave, everyone goes combat because of the extreme effectiveness of the move.

    Whatever point you choose, Combat is a broken spec due to BF:
    1)most of the time behind the other two specs due to the addition of a cleave they don't have
    2)so good that becomes mandatory in certain situations

    Nerfing BF this way will solve the second point, but this won't automagically makes true the first one.
    Comparing the specs and feeling forced to spec one way or the other is, at least in my mind, a smaller problem versus not being useful at all compared to another class.

    Why would you recruit a rogue over a DK that can do similar single-target dps, better cleave dps, and on top of that brings more buffs and a combat res?
    I feel that that is a question Blizzard should have answered a long time ago.

    I do however, agree that we shouldn't be ahead of everyone else to the point where you have to bring a rogue or two to every cleave fight but with this nerf we bring nothing to the table that can't be done better by another class altogether.

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