Thread: Resto T15 Bonus

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  1. #21
    Dreadlord zshikara's Avatar
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    The two set is drop dead amazing. I am uncertain how the 4 set will help me. I am sure it will, just not sure to what extent yet.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Irisel View Post
    Does the 4pc follow all the same proc rules as Ancestral Awakening, just works on noncrits, or can it proc from Chain Heal jumps and Healing rain?... if I'm not mistaken, they're direct heals.
    Healing Rain currently does not proc AA (i think..fairly certain). I doubt HR would proc the 4 piece since it will likely use the same mechanics as AA.

    As for chain heal, to be honest its been ages so i don't remember if it procs AA, i know it used not to. Assuming it still doesn't, then i'd assume it wouldn't proc the 4pc. (Although i could proc it at a reduced chance per jump. like only a 5% chance per jump or something)

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by looorg View Post
    Don't know where you get those numbers from, I'm guessing you are pulling them out of thin air or some other bodily orifice, but they make no sense. I heal in with that setup Disc/Pala/Sham (ok no DK tank) and it's never 40-40-10. On the worst encounters when we 3 heal some normal mode the difference with all that shielding and absorbing is around 10%. On most other encounters we 2/3 heal depending on hc/norm/encounter the difference is never that great. On most of them it's rarely more then around 2% between each healer so from top to bottom perhaps around 5%; some encounters are obviously worse. But never as bad as in your imagination the numbers to be. Do they suck at healing? No. Am I superduperawesome? No. We all have about the same gear (~500 ilev) The difference just isn't that great as you imagine it to be.

    The worst so far, this week, was some 3 heal normal mode where the difference between the disc/pala and the sham was 13%. Why do we 3 heal them? Cause we are lazy and we don't need the extra dps so we dont bother changing spec.

    Would I like it to be even closer? Sure. But it is what it is and you adapt to it. I'm guessing if they (blizz) didn't have to take shaman pvp healing into account and tweak for that they might be able to make is closer and more even. But still with this sort of setup the shaman mastery becomes a bit meh! since people don't drop down to much due to their double hitting of both heal and shield. Perhaps we'll see a difference when 5.2 rolls around.
    Quote Originally Posted by mrinvisable2 View Post
    Then u must go and l2p shaman. we have lower numbers but we have low overhealing compare to other healers our numbers drop each week because all gwt more gear and understand fights beter so we have less to heal . i heal together with hpal he now on farm out heals me because i have less to heal in sted i spam lvb and lbs
    Did either of you read what was in the quote, or just respond like morons to only my response?

    Cuz both of your answers seem pretty idiotic considering my argument was that healing meters are, in fact, somewhat important in showing how much healing is being done by who. At no point did I say resto shamans pull 10% of the healing done on fights, and I figured it was obvious we weren't talking about a farm fight where afk spamming LB works just fine.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Zues View Post
    Did either of you read what was in the quote, or just respond like morons to only my response?

    Cuz both of your answers seem pretty idiotic considering my argument was that healing meters are, in fact, somewhat important in showing how much healing is being done by who. At no point did I say resto shamans pull 10% of the healing done on fights, and I figured it was obvious we weren't talking about a farm fight where afk spamming LB works just fine.
    I can understand where you're coming from, as from time to time, when doing progression, one of our healers likes to point out when I am far below him on the healing meters (sometimes 7-13%). The problem with healing meters to show who is doing more work, at least comparing shamans to other healers, is that our healing is reduced when a.) the overall raid is avoiding extra damage, b.) other healers get increasing gear, and c.) other healers snipe heal. Of course these all affect any healer, but in our case, these three things make our mastery become, for lack of a better word, shit. For my raid, my other two healers tend to push their heals as hard as possible, which often leads me to stop casts when I see they are about to push a big heal on someone (if they are already going to blow their mana, no reason for me to do so as well). The result is that I am frequently lower than on the meters, in varying amounts, but it is not something that I can control. Changing my class wouldn't solve much since the problem, at least in my case, is more from my other healers than me being a shaman.

  5. #25
    I definitely agree that shamans have to stopcast to avoid overhealing more than the other classes. Hpals and disc priests have bubbles that beat us out (on the meters, at least), and rdruid/mistweavers have hots that tick continuously, leading to us overhealing if not careful.

    However, we kick ass in stacked fights, so that's when we make our comeback. Unfortunately/fortunately, this tier is nothing like DS, so stack times don't occur as frequently.

  6. #26
    The Patient Madhoof's Avatar
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    Sorry to interrupt you: what about the T15 bonuses?
    R.A.I.D - Resto at its destiny


  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Zues View Post
    I definitely agree that shamans have to stopcast to avoid overhealing more than the other classes. Hpals and disc priests have bubbles that beat us out (on the meters, at least), and rdruid/mistweavers have hots that tick continuously, leading to us overhealing if not careful.

    However, we kick ass in stacked fights, so that's when we make our comeback. Unfortunately/fortunately, this tier is nothing like DS, so stack times don't occur as frequently.
    Ya, this is one of the main issue with rsham imo. Every healer is unique, but in the case of shaman, our uniqueness can be so niche sometimes, that it hurts us.

  8. #28
    The 2 piece bonus adds about 5% extra output in most cases, which is a very strong bonus. It also increases the output lost by using the Totemic Recall glyph to clip the last tick. It may become less worthwhile to do so, especially as regen scales up more.

    The 4 piece would math out to be a 1-2% output increase based on analysis of my logs and assuming it still procs off the same spells that proc Ancestral Awakening now. Outside of fights with heavy single target spell usage/tank healing, this set bonus is pretty marginal, and it will be debatable if it's even worth going for if there are better itemized offset pieces. Seeing how strong the set bonuses are for other classes, we still probably should pass tokens to other specs once we have our 2 piece.

    I almost think the 2 piece and 4 piece should reverse spots. I also am not a huge fan that these are adding more passive healing. It feels like too much of our output already comes from cooldowns and the very basics (Healing Rain, HST and RT on CD and ELW and AA).

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Zues View Post
    So if the boss dies and the healing meters read "Disc priest- 40% Holy pally - 40% Rsham- 10% Blood DK - 10%" that doesn't matter too much?
    As long as the boss dies and the raid lives it shouldnt matter.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 11:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    The 2 piece bonus adds about 5% extra output in most cases, which is a very strong bonus. It also increases the output lost by using the Totemic Recall glyph to clip the last tick. It may become less worthwhile to do so, especially as regen scales up more.

    The 4 piece would math out to be a 1-2% output increase based on analysis of my logs and assuming it still procs off the same spells that proc Ancestral Awakening now. Outside of fights with heavy single target spell usage/tank healing, this set bonus is pretty marginal, and it will be debatable if it's even worth going for if there are better itemized offset pieces. Seeing how strong the set bonuses are for other classes, we still probably should pass tokens to other specs once we have our 2 piece.

    I almost think the 2 piece and 4 piece should reverse spots. I also am not a huge fan that these are adding more passive healing. It feels like too much of our output already comes from cooldowns and the very basics (Healing Rain, HST and RT on CD and ELW and AA).
    Are you silly shamans having to use the totemic recall glyph? Or do you fail at gemming/forging/conserving? Or is this a 10 man thing?

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    Are you silly shamans having to use the totemic recall glyph? Or do you fail at gemming/forging/conserving? Or is this a 10 man thing?
    It's more of a playstyle; you don't have to do it to keep mana up. I personally don't do it. From my basic understanding of it, if done right, it allows you to convert more of your regen stats towards throughput, at the cost of losing the last tick of your totems.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    As long as the boss dies and the raid lives it shouldnt matter.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 11:28 PM ----------



    Are you silly shamans having to use the totemic recall glyph? Or do you fail at gemming/forging/conserving? Or is this a 10 man thing?
    Its 2333mp5 or ~5k spirit. Why wouldn't you want 5k free spirit?

  12. #32
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    Healing Rain currently does not proc AA (i think..fairly certain). I doubt HR would proc the 4 piece since it will likely use the same mechanics as AA.

    As for chain heal, to be honest its been ages so i don't remember if it procs AA, i know it used not to. Assuming it still doesn't, then i'd assume it wouldn't proc the 4pc. (Although i could proc it at a reduced chance per jump. like only a 5% chance per jump or something)
    AA does not proc from CH on live. The talent specifies SINGLE TARGET direct heals. Which, is why HR and CH do not proc it. But, and I know it's PTR :P, the 4pc on the front page just says direct heals and if I'm not mistaken HR and CH are both considered direct heals, just multi-target direct heals. I can hope, nonetheless.

    Healing Wave
    Greater Healing Wave
    Healing Surge
    Riptide (minus the HoT)
    Unleash Life
    Chain Heal
    (?) Healing Rain

    ...are all of our direct heals, iirc
    Last edited by Irisel; 2013-01-12 at 09:14 AM. Reason: said BETA, meant PTR

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  13. #33
    as a 10 men raider, ancestral awakening is a very important part of my heal ability (its very smart and usefull offheal) (usually bigger contribution than chainheal for me), and it procs from all single target castet heals that crit. (hs, hw, ghw, and rt instant portion). Historically, in 10 mens at the end of wotlk u would provide a considerous amount of offheal to random people while tank healing / single target sniping, but back than critrates were 40-ish %. So the setbonus is aimed to revive this time in wow history, were u could rely to a certain degree on aa offheal to keep people alive. AA for example allowed me to solo heal phase 3 on our Prof putricede hc firstkill, with AA providing enough heal to keep the raid alive, while spamming the tank like mad. Since then, i am a big fan of AA.

    AA doesnt proc from unleash life, ch, hr, or totems.

    so this setbonus will get your chance to have a aa proc from like 20 % to something like 36 %, which will be a 2-3 % total healing, and additionally a smart non-overhealing gain. (assumed 20 % crit, and a 1/5 chance of noncrit single target heals triggering aa too).
    Last edited by Holofernes; 2013-01-12 at 10:35 AM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by tibbee View Post
    The 2 piece bonus adds about 5% extra output in most cases, which is a very strong bonus. It also increases the output lost by using the Totemic Recall glyph to clip the last tick. It may become less worthwhile to do so, especially as regen scales up more.

    The 4 piece would math out to be a 1-2% output increase based on analysis of my logs and assuming it still procs off the same spells that proc Ancestral Awakening now. Outside of fights with heavy single target spell usage/tank healing, this set bonus is pretty marginal, and it will be debatable if it's even worth going for if there are better itemized offset pieces. Seeing how strong the set bonuses are for other classes, we still probably should pass tokens to other specs once we have our 2 piece.

    I almost think the 2 piece and 4 piece should reverse spots. I also am not a huge fan that these are adding more passive healing. It feels like too much of our output already comes from cooldowns and the very basics (Healing Rain, HST and RT on CD and ELW and AA).
    i am quoting this just to show its importance. other classes will probably be seeing a higher reported output from their tier bonuses. Sadly the current model of healing shows higher output from non AA procing spells even in spread conditions (assuming a CH glyph). Our two piece will be mandatory in 10 and 25 mans. Our 4 piece will only be good in 10 mans and going for it will depend on what stat allocations the tier pieces have like the tier pieces today. Furthermore the 4 piece will radically change our secondary stat priority. Mastery will pull ahead of crit as the HP breakpoints will lower. I don't remember where the research is, but AA proccing spells gave crit a huge advantage over mastery in the race. This buff to non crit spells will bring mastery more inline.

  15. #35
    Resto shaman healing is in a really good place in 25s and is pretty awful in 10s though. I do wish they would actually fix resto shaman in 10 mans and then make set bonuses everyone wants, but for me (raiding 10m heroics right now) I'll take a buff any way I can get it.

  16. #36
    With the way that set bonuses look right now AE healing is going to be huge, there is going to be a lot of spread damage, so the HST totem will when used at athe right time lead to very little OH.

    I am interested to see how this tier plays out overall

  17. #37
    Now datamined on WoWhead- the 4pc has a 50% chance to proc, instead of 20%. It's like a smarter Beacon of Light, and probably well worth getting.

  18. #38
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zues View Post
    Now datamined on WoWhead- the 4pc has a 50% chance to proc, instead of 20%. It's like a smarter Beacon of Light, and probably well worth getting.
    This is an absurdly good bonus. It's godly in 10 man, imo. I like EVERYTHING about both of the set bonuses for t15, please let it get to live...

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Zues View Post
    Now datamined on WoWhead- the 4pc has a 50% chance to proc, instead of 20%. It's like a smarter Beacon of Light, and probably well worth getting.
    if this is true theorycrafters are gonna have to do the numbers and see whether GHW/HS beats out chain heal for HPS/HPM. Chain heal was never too far ahead of GHW to begin with.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Zues View Post
    Now datamined on WoWhead- the 4pc has a 50% chance to proc, instead of 20%. It's like a smarter Beacon of Light, and probably well worth getting.
    I love this change so much. Healing with 2 healers who try to push meters and snipe heal like a mofo, this set bonus should hopefully allow me to do some more healing so they stop wasting so much mana!

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