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  1. #81
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    My guess as the Alliance has both Night Elf Highborne and Moonwells, that is good counter to Blood Elf Arcanists and Sunwells.
    Switch the highborne with Draenei magi and I might agree. The highborne are a few thousand years behind ,in the knowledge of the Arcane, after all. ;P
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    the Spellbreaker are present from the patch 5.1

    http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/2...1212203142.jpg
    War effort!

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 02:16 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Switch the highborne with Draenei and I might agree. ;P
    Well they are back and Tyrande let them. But Draenei Vindicators are a counter to Blood Knights.

  3. #83
    Herald of the Titans Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Switch the highborne with Draenei and I might agree. ;P
    Why? The arcane gifted Eredar are those on Argus. The draenei have no significant arcane based culture to speak of for the past what... 20k years? Their focus is the Light. I can see nothing to suggest they have anywhere near the arcane power of the Eredar, or for that matter, any of the Highborne or their descendants.

    The Highborne most definitely are a closer "counter", especially with the Shen'dralar who have some affinity with demonic draining. That being said, this whole conflict is artificial and contrived in its appearance.

  4. #84
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    Why? The arcane gifted Eredar are those on Argus. The draenei have no significant arcane based culture to speak of for the past what... 20k years? Their focus is the Light.

    The Highborne most definitely are a closer "counter", especially with the Shen'dralar who have some affinity with demonic draining. That being said, this whole conflict is artificial and contrived in its appearance.
    The Draenei have yet to be portrayed to be lacking arcane knowledge, which the highborne do.
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  5. #85
    Banned JhanZ's Avatar
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    Time to feel the wrath of the Blood Elves, Alliance.

  6. #86
    Herald of the Titans Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The Draenei have yet to be portrayed to be lacking arcane knowledge, which the highborne do.
    Lacking what? Are you referring to the night elven apprentices in Azshara? The Highborne re-introduced reforging to Azeroth, after all.

    The draenei have never been portrayed as possessing much knowledge or interest in the arcane, either. Their mages, few as they are, teach it can be addictive and dangerous. That's about it. I don't think they can even hope to compete. I think Blizzard has exhausted the draenei/blood elf antagonism, anyway. It's a good time for the blood elves to confront their hypocritical night elven kin on the basis that they've admitted one of the most questionable faction of Highborne into their numbers, whilst shunning their own kind for fairly similar acts of desperation.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2013-01-10 at 07:29 PM.

  7. #87
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  8. #88
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    Lacking what? Are you referring to the night elven apprentices in Azshara? The Highborne re-introduced reforging to Azeroth, after all.

    The draenei have never been portrayed as possessing much knowledge or interest in the arcane, either. Their mages, few as they are, teach it can be addictive and dangerous. That's about it. I don't think they can even hope to compete.
    They reintroduced something ancient, yes it wasn't something new, it was just forgotten. At some point the highborne started to stagnate in Eldre'thalas, since they teach outdated techniques and their equipment is ancient and of rather poor quality as well.

    You might be right, and the Draenei could know even less but it hasn't been stated yet.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2013-01-10 at 07:33 PM.
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  9. #89
    Warchief Voyager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    Lacking what? Are you referring to the night elven apprentices in Azshara? The Highborne re-introduced reforging to Azeroth, after all.

    The draenei have never been portrayed as possessing much knowledge or interest in the arcane, either. Their mages, few as they are, teach it can be addictive and dangerous. That's about it. I don't think they can even hope to compete. I think Blizzard has exhausted the draenei/blood elf antagonism, anyway. It's a good time for the blood elves to confront their hypocritical night elven kin on the basis that they've admitted one of the most questionable faction of Highborne into their numbers, whilst shunning their own kind for fairly similar acts of desperation.
    Draenei mages are definitely the most skilled arcane users in the Alliance, Humans are better at Fire and Frost magic though. Night Elves can't even compare.

  10. #90
    Herald of the Titans Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    They reintroduced something ancient, yes it wasn't something new, it was just forgotten. At some point the highborne started to stagnate in Eldre'thalas, since they teach outdated techniques and their equipment is ancient and of rather poor quality as well.

    You might be right, and the Draenei could know even less but it hasn't been stated yet.
    Depends, the Highborne are inherently powerful in wielding arcane magics due to the Well's influence on their evolution. I do not doubt they won't struggle to pick up new techniques. In truth, I doubt they are as powerful as the high/blood elves or the Naga females, but in relative terms they and humans are the arcane specialists of the Alliance. Gnomes, I don't know. They're brainy, like the elves, but not inherently gifted in any other way in the arcane. Humans apparently can draw reckless amounts of energy but this must be juxtaposed vis-a-vis the fact that high elves became very conservative due to their fear of the Legion, and in the WRPG were still detailed as inherently more powerful than any other playable race when it came to the arcane. With fewer inhibitions, blood elves are likely to be a force to be reckoned with.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 07:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
    Draenei mages are definitely the most skilled arcane users in the Alliance, Humans are better at Fire and Frost magic though. Night Elves can't even compare.
    Your basis for this is, what? Their kindredness with the Eredar? So what? Even gnomes seem to have a more defined arcane "culture" than draenei nowadays. Their focus is very much spiritual and Light-based. I'll concede we know too little about them but there is nothing to suggest they possess innate ability with the arcane anywhere close to the Highborne. Those Eredar who were gifted in the arcane are now mostly Man'ari and are on Argus.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2013-01-10 at 07:41 PM.

  11. #91
    Pandaren Monk Solzan Nemesis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    Depends, the Highborne are inherently powerful in wielding arcane magics due to the Well's influence on their evolution. I do not doubt they won't struggle to pick up new techniques. In truth, I doubt they are as powerful as the high/blood elves or the Naga females, but in relative terms they and humans are the arcane specialists of the Alliance. Gnomes, I don't know. They're brainy, like the elves, but not inherently gifted in any other way in the arcane. Humans apparently can draw reckless amounts of energy but this must be juxtaposed vis-a-vis the fact that high elves became very conservative due to their fear of the Legion, and in the WRPG were still detailed as inherently more powerful than any other playable race when it came to the arcane. With fewer inhibitions, blood elves are likely to be a force to be reckoned with.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 07:39 PM ----------


    Your basis for this is, what? Their kindredness with the Eredar? So what? Even gnomes seem to have a more defined arcane "culture" than draenei nowadays. Their focus is very much spiritual and Light-based. I'll concede we know too little about them but there is nothing to suggest they possess innate ability with the arcane anywhere close to the Highborne. Those Eredar who were gifted in the arcane are now mostly Man'ari and are on Argus.
    Yeah, Dreanei know little of the arcane form my point of view. There to busy with there "light".

    Also is there even proof Argus is still there. For all we know the Legion brunet it to a crisp or blown it up. Not saying it could not be a base, but we have no proof.
    Last edited by Solzan Nemesis; 2013-01-10 at 07:53 PM.

  12. #92
    Stood in the Fire Shefu's Avatar
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    What Jaina did in Dalaran was stupid and irresponsible. Instead of making threats and acting stupid she should have focused on the real enemy which is Garrosh. Now all of the Alliance will have to suffer because of one dumb bitch. Sorry, but that's how she's acting now. Whatever wizardry you guys have in the Kirin Tor, good luck with it, you're gonna need lots.

  13. #93
    Herald of the Titans Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    What Jaina did in Dalaran was stupid and irresponsible. Instead of making threats and acting stupid she should have focused on the real enemy which is Garrosh. Now all of the Alliance will have to suffer because of one dumb bitch. Sorry, but that's how she's acting now. Whatever wizardry you guys have in the Kirin Tor, good luck with it, you're gonna need lots.
    Couldn't agree more. It's not the first time, either. She is a burden to the Alliance.

  14. #94
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    What Jaina did in Dalaran was stupid and irresponsible. Instead of making threats and acting stupid she should have focused on the real enemy which is Garrosh. Now all of the Alliance will have to suffer because of one dumb bitch. Sorry, but that's how she's acting now. Whatever wizardry you guys have in the Kirin Tor, good luck with it, you're gonna need lots.
    What Jaina did was necessary, though poorly executed. The sunreavers were infiltrated by Garrosh loyalists, as such they had to leave the city one way or another. They were a great security risk.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  15. #95
    Scarab Lord Sesto's Avatar
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    I just finished the 5.1 quset line, damn, I'm ready to kick some Alliance ass. Lor'themar is awesome.

  16. #96
    I am Murloc! Alenarien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thaladhrun View Post
    Your basis for this is, what? Their kindredness with the Eredar? So what? Even gnomes seem to have a more defined arcane "culture" than draenei nowadays. Their focus is very much spiritual and Light-based. I'll concede we know too little about them but there is nothing to suggest they possess innate ability with the arcane anywhere close to the Highborne. Those Eredar who were gifted in the arcane are now mostly Man'ari and are on Argus.
    I'm not sure where you get this from.

    Long ago, on the planet of Argus, the eredar race arose. They were extremely intelligent and had a natural affinity for magic in all of its forms. Using their gifts, they developed a vast and wondrous society. They were aided in this development by an ancient artefact known as the Ata'mal crystal, a triangular crystal whose origin was a mystery to the eredar, though their legends suggested it had been a gift bestowed upon them in ancient times.
    - Rise of the Horde

    The draenei culture is centered around two things: the Holy Light of Creation and magic. The first is the result of their unique relationship with the naaru, while the second is the path that the eredar have always followed. As a result, draenei usually choose religious professions, such as priests or paladins, or magical ones, such as the mage. A few have started to follow the path of the shaman under the guidance of Farseer Nobundo.
    As far as lore goes, the Draenei are pretty much the master race in almost all fields; entirely what one would expect from a race that is millions of years old, as opposed to most of those upon Azeroth whose history rarely stretches back beyond the 20,000 year mark.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 08:52 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Shefu View Post
    What Jaina did in Dalaran was stupid and irresponsible. Instead of making threats and acting stupid she should have focused on the real enemy which is Garrosh. Now all of the Alliance will have to suffer because of one dumb bitch. Sorry, but that's how she's acting now. Whatever wizardry you guys have in the Kirin Tor, good luck with it, you're gonna need lots.
    The world's best mages versus a rather arrogant race (and I say that despite playing one one) who, despite having been so foolish as to charge headlong into the use of Fel magic, despite having seen what it did to the Orcs, curse their High Elven cousins for not having been that stupid, still proclaim themselves to be the most knowledgeable and proficient of magic wielders.

    I'll place my bets on the Kirin'Tor.
    Last edited by Alenarien; 2013-01-10 at 08:53 PM.
    The first thing I remember about the world — and I pray that it may be the last — is that I was a stranger in it.” - Malcolm Muggeridge, Apologia pro vita sua (1968)

  17. #97
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post

    The world's best mages versus a rather arrogant race (and I say that despite playing one one) who, despite having been so foolish as to charge headlong into the use of Fel magic, despite having seen what it did to the Orcs, curse their High Elven cousins for not having been that stupid, still proclaim themselves to be the most knowledgeable and proficient of magic wielders.

    I'll place my bets on the Kirin'Tor.


    The blood elves are just as skilled in the arcane arts as the Kirin Tor.

    Not to mention


    Blood elves are biologically and physiologically high elves.[2] Courtesy of their exposure to fel magic (the practice of which spread in a similar fashion to the orcs own exposure to the substance, tainting even those in its proximity who chose not to dabble in it), the eyes of the sin'dorei now produce an emerald glow.

    Few of these elves know of Kael'thas' pact with Illidan, and many would be horrified if they discovered it. Draining magic from small mana-bearing vermin is a far cry from draining magic from demons.

    Meaning most of the blood elves never actively siphoned fel power, they eyes simply turned green because a few did.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  18. #98
    Herald of the Titans Zathrendar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alenarien View Post
    I'm not sure where you get this from.
    Nor am I sure how you have extrapolated from that that they continue to have any special talent in the arcane. That quote describes the Eredar in the abstract. It does not state whether on balance those more inclined to the arcane remained on Argus or sided with the minority who fled from the path the Man'ari adopted.


    As far as lore goes, the Draenei are pretty much the master race in almost all fields;
    Again, the basis being what? They don't seem very masterful at anything other than self-righteousness.

    entirely what one would expect from a race that is millions of years old, as opposed to most of those upon Azeroth whose history rarely stretches back beyond the 20,000 year mark.[COLOR="red"]
    Where are you getting the "millions of years old" figure from? What are the visible hallmarks of their supposed "greatness"? They were butchered by the orcs and have spent most of their existence running from the Eredar using borrowed Naaru tech. True, it was the Legion that fuelled the Orcish genocide but what, exactly, did the draenei have to stop it? Where, precisely, are their great magi? I'll answer that: they're called Kil'jaeden and Archimonde. If they are millions of years old, its another sign of Blizzard's complete idiocy in appreciating the significance of these numbers.


    The world's best mages versus a rather arrogant race (and I say that despite playing one one) who, despite having been so foolish as to charge headlong into the use of Fel magic, despite having seen what it did to the Orcs, curse their High Elven cousins for not having been that stupid, still proclaim themselves to be the most knowledgeable and proficient of magic wielders.
    "Arrogant" because, what? Unlike the Kirin Tor? Hah. They turned to fel because they perceived they had few alternatives. Their high elven cousins are cursed, not because they did not consume fel, but because they are perceived to have betrayed their homeland for the Alliance. Who, besides them, is more proficient or knowledgeable in the arcane? The Highborne relics? The fleeing draenei rats? Based. On. What.

    I guess Modera and Jaina look pretty in a mirror.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 09:05 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    The blood elves are just as skilled in the arcane arts as the Kirin Tor.
    His statement is flawed at its core. The races comprising the Kirin Tor include high elves, humans and gnomes. This alone confers absolutely no advantage to them. Then you can add the fact that you have Kirin Tor amongst the Sunreavers, who were obviously exiled, who had access to exactly the same knowledge as the rest of the Kirin Tor, plus former Kirin Tor amongst the Forsaken.
    Last edited by Zathrendar; 2013-01-10 at 09:16 PM.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    No they were not , there were skirmishes but no all out war between the factions they had an uneasy truce. We are at war since the beginning of the Cataclysm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    before the wrath gate the horde and alliance were at more of a cold war there were a few skirmishes but ultimately they were not at military war with eachother
    There were countless small battles on Azeroth (battlegrounds [RESOURCES!]), Outland (before and behind the portal, quests in every area where we fight the opposite faction) and Northrend in the Fjord, Tundra and Dragonblight (before Wrathgate). They were at war and hostile to each other... and unlike Combatbulter said, Varian didnt declare war (full out war with grant battles) after the Wrathgate, Garrosh did it in Cataclysm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    And? They fought against the burning legion and Kael's army there , many of their troops weren't even healed yet.
    You act like the Blood Elves are fighting alone. They were present in Outland, while Kaelthas was still their leader.

    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    it IS a warcrime. after the wrath gate the horde and alliance both made an agreement that neither would use any kind of plague again because of the horrors of what happened there.

    you cant say its not a war crime because thats the very definition of war crime...
    No, its just ridiculous to add real life morals into a video game. Everything is relative.... Tauren call the Taurajo incident a "massacre", Jaina purged Dalaran (while disabling the dragonhawks of the Sunreavers [and no, she didnt just kill Sunreavers who wanted to baricade themselves in the city]) which is totally contraticting her attitude after Theremore was bombed.

    The Plague turns humanoids into slime.... its a matter of perspective if its morally more okay to get killed by a mace smashing your head or a sword, which cuts your limbs off.
    Most people do not realize the talent and skill it requires to be in a top guild. Many of you think its only about time invested, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

  20. #100
    Herald of the Titans Zathrendar's Avatar
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    No, its just ridiculous to add real life morals into a video game. Everything is relative....
    Why would morals change based on the fact that it's a video game?

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