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  1. #1
    High Overlord TecPontificates's Avatar
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    Enhancement T15 Bonuses

    Opening a thread to discuss these.

    This is the second time in 3 tiers that our 4 piece bonus has affected one of our weakest abilities.

    I did some analysis on what Feral Spirit is doing for me currently by looking at a recent Blade Lord 25H kill.

    The kill lasted approximately 8 minutes. In that time, I cast Feral Spirit 4 times, although the last one occurred only seconds before the end of the encounter and didn't run full duration, so I am considering 3 full duration casts in these numbers.

    My wolves did 1,305,515 total damage, or approximately 435,171 per cast. I routinely crit for over 200,000 with Lava Lash every 10 seconds, so this is a small number.

    Our 4 piece set bonus reduced the cooldown of Feral Spirit by 8 seconds each time Windfury procs. World of Logs records 99 Windfury hits (combined crit/hit). This means Windfury Weapon triggered 33 times, which knocks 240 seconds off of the cooldown.

    This doesn't work out to exactly 2 extra casts for two reasons. First, the effective cooldown of Feral Spirit is 90 seconds, not 2 minutes, because it lasts 30 seconds and even if you could, it would be dumb to clip the ability. Second, because Windfury Weapon has a 3 second internal cooldown, the bonus's effective reduction is 11 seconds per trigger; this is because even if you triggered Windfury with every single mainhand swing, you'd still only trigger one at most every 3 seconds, so 3 seconds elapses between each trigger.

    33 Windfury procs will result in more than (33*8)/120 extra casts of Feral Spirit.

    If we assume an even distribution of Windfury procs over the course of a 500 second fight, we get one Windfury proc every 15 seconds, or 8 between every 2 minute period. After casting Spirits, 5 procs (75 seconds elapsed) later, the bonus will have reduced the cooldown by an additional 40 seconds which puts the CD at 5 seconds.

    By that math it means that we can cast FS every 80 seconds instead of every 120. In my Blade Lord encounter, I'd be able to cast Feral Spirit 6 times instead of only 3. In reality, that would probably be only 5 since a lot of time is wasted during the P1 to P2 transition.

    If we ignore that detail of the encounter and assume FS does pretty much the same damage per cast, then with the bonus, I would have done an additional 1.3m damage, which amounts to a approximately 2600 DPS.

    I haven't done the math on the T14 4 piece, but I'd be shocked if 15% extra crit on all of my nature spells contributed less than 2600 extra DPS.

    What do you guys think?
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  2. #2
    While I'm quite sad to see the state of that 4p bonus I'm not too upset. I figure we can do with two piece and offpieces for this tier depending on itemization. Of course I would like to see something imb, but we're in a good enough state as it is PvE wise imo (10/16hc experience). Excited for the new changes!

  3. #3
    I have to say that while feral spirits is a lackluster pve cooldown, the set bonus is at least interesting. The act of reducing a cooldown on an ability is more interesting to me than a flat passive buff but obviously it isn't as strong. This might be a sign that blizz will buff feral spirits to make this 4 set more desirable, particularly if a lot of people raise this concern to blizz.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Drebbin View Post
    I have to say that while feral spirits is a lackluster pve cooldown, the set bonus is at least interesting. The act of reducing a cooldown on an ability is more interesting to me than a flat passive buff but obviously it isn't as strong. This might be a sign that blizz will buff feral spirits to make this 4 set more desirable, particularly if a lot of people raise this concern to blizz.
    I'd be very surprised if they buffed the wolves. Delighted, but surprised.

  5. #5
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    Yeah it's an extremely sub par set bonus in terms of dps atm, but as much as I highly doubt it will be improved "there is still plenty of time"

  6. #6
    The Patient Xeonde's Avatar
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    As I read over the others, I got pretty pumped. The mage set bonuses I remember being pretty impressed. But our spirit wolves? :/ lame. Not impressed. It's great for survival. Tons of extra self healing which is cool, but they're just so weak.
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  7. #7
    I think we'll be asking our RL's if solo spec could count as offspec when needing on T15 pieces.

  8. #8
    High Overlord akro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xeonde View Post
    As I read over the others, I got pretty pumped. The mage set bonuses I remember being pretty impressed. But our spirit wolves? :/ lame. Not impressed. It's great for survival. Tons of extra self healing which is cool, but they're just so weak.
    Not to mention ele 4p is pretty awesome compared to ours.

  9. #9
    Warchief Protoman's Avatar
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    They should make our 4piece either "When you consume MW5 w/ a nature spell you reduce Ascendance by 3 sec" or "WF procs reduce Ascendance by 1 sec" or something like that. Feral Spirits is a lame CD, Ascendance is way better and they should focus on that. I kinda like it working with MW5 cause that synergizes with the 2piece as well.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by akro View Post
    Not to mention ele 4p is pretty awesome compared to ours.
    Why?

    The design is better. The dps increase will have to be cosidered.

    The set bonus is a solid dps inrease, it will almost double our spirit wolfs uptime.

    It's solid and BIS gear will require you to take it (about a 3% dps increase).

  11. #11
    The Patient Trajer's Avatar
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    Though it is pretty sad to see another feral spirit set piece, this just means that 2pc will be our BiS and not 4pc. I love when I only need the 2pc because the equivalent non-set pieces are usually better itemized and have better stat distribution.
    Retired WoW player. Ameteur family man.

  12. #12
    The one thing that sticks out to me is that the 2pc bonus might put an EotE/UF with mastery reforging back on top as the spec for enhancement to use rather than EM/PE with haste reforging.
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  13. #13
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klatar View Post
    Why?

    The design is better. The dps increase will have to be cosidered.

    The set bonus is a solid dps inrease, it will almost double our spirit wolfs uptime.

    It's solid and BIS gear will require you to take it (about a 3% dps increase).
    You probably have to autoattack to get a 3% dps increase from this bonus. Going off wolves doing 0.8% (highest I've ever seen on my logs) you're looking at closer to 1.5% damage increase. Pathetic for a set bonus and will likely lose out to better itemized offset pieces if they exist.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Raiju View Post
    You probably have to autoattack to get a 3% dps increase from this bonus. Going off wolves doing 0.8% (highest I've ever seen on my logs) you're looking at closer to 1.5% damage increase. Pathetic for a set bonus and will likely lose out to better itemized offset pieces if they exist.
    If they're only doing 0.8% of your DPS, then you're simply not using them again after the initial summon.

  15. #15
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitwit View Post
    If they're only doing 0.8% of your DPS, then you're simply not using them again after the initial summon.
    I was popping them on cd, wolves do terrible damage in comparison to your character assuming you aren't afk half the time.

  16. #16
    Ok, I've been a mmo-champion reader, for years now, and this discussion has made me make an account so I can burst some bubbles.

    WF procs every 3s. That means in 30s (the time Wolves are up..) that's 10 times the CD is reduced. So that's 80 seconds the CD is reduced by. 80s reduction over 30s uptime = 110 of the original 120s CD. Meaning after wolves go away.. you will have to wait an entire 10 seconds before you can pop wolves again.

    This means wolves now have a 75% uptime. This is three times their current uptime.

    People also aren't looking at this CD from a survivability standpoint. The self healing from these wolves means is phenomenal. And getting these heals for 30 out of 40s is insane.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitwit View Post
    If they're only doing 0.8% of your DPS, then you're simply not using them again after the initial summon.
    No that's actually about correct. My Spirit Wolves only did 0.44% of my damage on Gara'jal parse (Was only like Rank 8).

    OT:

    Neither of the tier bonuses look that appealing, 4pc is relatively underwhelming, and 2pc is interesting, but I don't think it will be as good as other classes / specs' Tier Bonuses. Hopefully they're changed or at least buffed, otherwise Enhancement Shaman's will be pretty low in their 'tier-gearing' priority.
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  18. #18
    The 4p15 seems to be ok on paper as long as its balanced to be a reasonable and comparable dps increase with regard to other 4p15's, what could be slightly overlooked is the increase in survivability from spirit hunt. Combined I feel this is too hard to balance and is a little underwhelming.

    The 2p15 is not very welcome. You may get to the position where to not run the risk possibly wasting some, or all of the bonus 3 stacks of Maelstrom you will be waiting until after a MW5_LB (or MW>3_LB_UF) to guarantee this is not the case. In reality this makes no sense especially with Unleashed Fury and even with perfect latency and rotation some stacks will be wasted. For me Maelstrom stacks are far too unpredictable to be used as a reliable source of damage with regard to a set bonus added to the fact most other bonuses -possibly discounting the Feral 2p - require next to no effort to manage effectively.
    Last edited by Traffic; 2013-01-11 at 12:23 PM.

  19. #19
    Scarab Lord Raiju's Avatar
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    I like the style of the 4set just like i like the ele 2 set but it needs to be a damage buff. That is the issue with wolves in general. I really liked someones idea that they do more damage and a lot less healing but the glyph would give them a lot of healing back in return for lower damage.

    The 2set seems uninteresting. Most set bonuses that work off adding extra maelstrom procs (as oppose to a base increase) just end up being inconsistent and not particularly powerful. Overall I just find it boring though. Wolves giving maelstroms was more interesting, although I can appreciate it wouldn't work out too balance with the 2set :P

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Traffic View Post
    The 2p15 is not very welcome. You may get to the position where to not run the risk possibly wasting some, or all of the bonus 3 stacks of Maelstrom you will be waiting until after a MW5_LB (or MW>3_LB_UF) to guarantee this is not the case. In reality this makes no sense especially with Unleashed Fury and even with perfect latency and rotation some stacks will be wasted. For me Maelstrom stacks are far too unpredictable to be used as a reliable source of damage with regard to a set bonus added to the fact most other bonuses -possibly discounting the Feral 2p - require next to no effort to manage effectively.
    You hit the nail on the head. The 2pc is very cumbersome to priority selection to maximize the 3 charges. We already have choices to make regarding having 3/4 stacks built up with SS coming off cd. Now we'll have to pay attn to UE & SS coming off cd to choose to hold or fire Lbolt. The fact they nerfed the UE LBolt 10% with UF talent sorta shows like an offset of a virtually guaranted LBolt to send after using UE.

    Idea: Add "and allows you to build up to 8 MW stacks" would make this more useful and not see charges going to waste and not complicate the priority. Wasted charges should be the feedback we offer Blizzard and ask for the extension to 8 charges with this tier pc bonus. Or completely rework it cuz as it stands this is not a 'fun and interesting' bonus and complicates things too much with too little benefit.

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