Problems with DPS on Gara Norm

[Deathcries]

I am having some problems with my DPS on Garalon. I sometimes have to kite, Pheramones, but regardless having issues even when I don't. I would like some tips from some of the folks who can find if I'm not doing something right, or if I'm not the right spec, or anything.

Armory. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...byjuice/simple

Logs for Garalon: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...ses&boss=63667

Thank you all in advance for the help.

[Rackfu]

Well, better gear would be a heck of a good place to start.

You have run HoF and Terrace LFR far fewer times than you could have.... The 450 shoulders and blue ring/trinket don't make things any better.

[cheddargrits]

You are missing a lot of agility by not gemming for the set bonus in your chest and legs. agility/mastery gems and aglilty/hit gems will net gain you about +80 agility and reduce some of the reforging you had to do. Get the 496 gloves that LW's make (super OP atm). Lose the tier gloves until you have a set bonus right now the are below the LW gloves until you have the 2 piece bonus. Also I cant really see your raid strategy but with the changes to cobra shot you should have higher uptime on your serpeant sting. There is no excuse really to have it drop off.

[Tehstool]

Spec into Blink Strike for this fight! Put your pet on passive and /petattack him to go over to the legs (I like casting SrS on the legs when I do this) and kill command and blink strike them.


Your reforges are way off and that's not helping. Go to wowreforge.com and make sure you change the stats of your upgraded items and make sure it is crit (1.6) > mastery (1.4) > haste (1.31)

You are missing a lot of agility by not gemming for the set bonus in your chest and legs. agility/mastery gems and aglilty/hit gems will net gain you about +80 agility and reduce some of the reforging you had to do. Get the 496 gloves that LW's make (super OP atm). Lose the tier gloves until you have a set bonus right now the are below the LW gloves until you have the 2 piece bonus. Also I cant really see your raid strategy but with the changes to cobra shot you should have higher uptime on your serpeant sting. There is no excuse really to have it drop off.

This is somewhat right. Don't listen to it entirely. Gem the glue socket in your legs with agi/hit and the yellow gem in your chest agi/CRIT not mastery. Keep your set gloves the Raven Lord's Gloves are crit/haste while the set gloves are crit/hit.

[Deleted]

Attack legs more. That's it. Even if you are range, run into the zones and attack legs.

[Karamok]

Definitely go Blink Strike. From looking at your 7min fight you used Kill Command 24 times, which is 144 seconds of cooldown, or just over 2 minutes. You should have at least twice that, closer to 60.

[Deathcries]

Thank you for all the advice.

[Deleted]

Attack legs more. That's it. Even if you are range, run into the zones and attack legs.

that's just useless meter padding. you should leave the legs for your melee cleave DPS so they have something to attack. it's also too much movement for any ranged, even a hunter.

[Tehstool]

that's just useless meter padding. you should leave the legs for your melee cleave DPS so they have something to attack. it's also too much movement for any ranged, even a hunter.

It is most definitely not meter padding. Any kind of movement is never too much for a class that can cast while moving. The legs have 3% of the bosses health and when you kill them they take away 3% of the bosses health. Every leg you kill within the radius of the 100% damage buff you are negating 1.5% of his hp. Not even close to meter padding.

Of course this all depends on how fast they are killing the legs. Preferably, they should be killing one and right after another one should spawn.

[Gunba]

It is most definitely not meter padding. Any kind of movement is never too much for a class that can cast while moving. The legs have 3% of the bosses health and when you kill them they take away 3% of the bosses health. Every leg you kill within the radius of the 100% damage buff you are negating 1.5% of his hp. Not even close to meter padding.

Of course this all depends on how fast they are killing the legs. Preferably, they should be killing one and right after another one should spawn.

It's padding if you're starving the melee of legs and forcing them to run to the front of the boss, since they spawn at a fixed rate. It's only really effective if you're either behind on killing legs, or at the end of the fight.

Anyway OP, anyone in this thread suggesting that your gear or fight strategy is the issue is more or less making excuses. It comes down to the fact that you are pushing your buttons wrong. Make better use of GCDs and pay attention to a rotation guide or something.

[Halifax]

It is most definitely not meter padding. Any kind of movement is never too much for a class that can cast while moving. The legs have 3% of the bosses health and when you kill them they take away 3% of the bosses health. Every leg you kill within the radius of the 100% damage buff you are negating 1.5% of his hp. Not even close to meter padding.

Of course this all depends on how fast they are killing the legs. Preferably, they should be killing one and right after another one should spawn.

Unless your on the legs because the boss is moving too fast and you need to kill legs, let the melee do it. They get more of a benefit from being able to cleave onto the body, and you would reduce overall raid dps if you take that away from the DKs/Warrior/Rogues.

[Solarflair]

Your pet will gain the Weak Points debuff, it's best to always to be attacking a leg (within reach, if possible) or the body - Blink Strike does wonders on this fight, fix the reforges and gemming and then it all comes down to hitting the right target. Rhetoric, I know, but best reinforced.

Has anyone checked this Hunter's Actions Per Minute as opposed to another? Maybe this Hunter is feeling overwhelmed or something and just not optimizing GCD's.

Hm, Deathcries is the name of the Warrior, not the Hunter... *puts two and two together*
So this friend I know.... he's in a pickle, see...

[Tehstool]

It's padding if you're starving the melee of legs and forcing them to run to the front of the boss, since they spawn at a fixed rate. It's only really effective if you're either behind on killing legs, or at the end of the fight.

Anyway OP, anyone in this thread suggesting that your gear or fight strategy is the issue is more or less making excuses. It comes down to the fact that you are pushing your buttons wrong. Make better use of GCDs and pay attention to a rotation guide or something.

Did you not read my post?

Of course this all depends on how fast they are killing the legs. Preferably, they should be killing one and right after another one should spawn.

Attack the legs is again, NOT padding. He has 218,000,000 HP on 10 man. that means 6,540,000 hp to a leg. 30 second CD to a leg would mean 218,000 dps would kill it at about the approximate mend leg time. On garalon try 7, the damage done from everybody on the leg was barely under 250k and that was factoring in the 4 legs at the start with all their cooldowns blown. So how isn't it padding? Can you please explain to me since all you have been saying is that it is better for melee, but if they barely have the dps required to kill the leg from everybody, wouldn't it be better to negate 1.5% of his hp per leg rather than just sitting there dpsing the boss? Either way the hunter should have their pet on the legs whenever possible because of this. It shortens the encounter making it possible to beat the enrage timer and saving healers mana.

TL;DR
IT IS MOST DEFINITELY NOT PADDING

[Deleted]

Did you not read my post?



Attack the legs is again, NOT padding. He has 218,000,000 HP on 10 man. that means 6,540,000 hp to a leg. 30 second CD to a leg would mean 218,000 dps would kill it at about the approximate mend leg time. On garalon try 7, the damage done from everybody on the leg was barely under 250k and that was factoring in the 4 legs at the start with all their cooldowns blown. So how isn't it padding? Can you please explain to me since all you have been saying is that it is better for melee, but if they barely have the dps required to kill the leg from everybody, wouldn't it be better to negate 1.5% of his hp per leg rather than just sitting there dpsing the boss? Either way the hunter should have their pet on the legs whenever possible because of this. It shortens the encounter making it possible to beat the enrage timer and saving healers mana.

TL;DR
IT IS MOST DEFINITELY NOT PADDING

The raid-wide dps is higher if you let those who can cleave hit the legs, and only when they are seriously behind on damage on legs (such as a new leg spawns as the current one got 50% hp left) then you can help out with dpsing the legs, but really, until that happends, it is meter padding.

[Gunba]

damage on leg was barely under 250k

This sounds like a raid issue, not a hunter one.

Can you please explain to me since all you have been saying is that it is better for melee

I wrote like 4 sentences, calm down sport.

but if they barely have the dps required to kill the leg from everybody

If they don't, as previously stated, it isn't padding.

It shortens the encounter making it possible to beat the enrage timer and saving healers mana.

Killing legs doesn't actually speed up the encounter (assuming you don't have 4 up when a respawn occurs) until the last phase.

[Tehstool]

The raid-wide dps is higher if you let those who can cleave hit the legs, and only when they are seriously behind on damage on legs (such as a new leg spawns as the current one got 50% hp left) then you can help out with dpsing the legs, but really, until that happends, it is meter padding.

I don't see how you guys think that having the hunter pet attack the legs is padding. If you think about it, it kind of is like a cleave since the pet is doing 100% of your normal damage while you are doing 50% of your damage on the boss (which is what I'm trying to explain to you guys). It isn't padding with their raid group. They are barely exceeding the dps required to kill the legs when another ones spawns. The enrage timer is 7 minutes meaning that with a 7 minute enrage time they'd need 519,047.619048 dps without factoring in the legs of course.

Let's say they executed the 16 legs that they killed perfectly (they didn't) and didn't lose the 100% damage buff. That would put garalon at 165,680,000 hp or 394,476.190476 dps with a 7 min enrage timer. The dps they had on garalon was 215,259.2, but some people died/were dead that attempt. Setting the selection to before the hunter died (first person to die without a brez) puts the dps on garalon at 219,210.0. Still 180k dps short.

With this group, they had a bit more dps on the legs than required and not enough on the boss. They should keep the hunter pet and melee on the legs, but should have multi dotters dot the legs. They should have enough dps to kill the legs in a timely manner by doing that. Then when/if they need help either/both the lock or hunter comes over since they don't take any penalty from movement.

---------- Post added 2013-01-11 at 01:43 AM ----------

This sounds like a raid issue, not a hunter one.

Yeah, but the hunter could help fix it.

I wrote like 4 sentences, calm down sport.

Who is freaking out? I was curious as to why you contradicted my statement.

If they don't, as previously stated, it isn't padding.

Then why even bring that up? I was responding to the situation not laying a blanket statement. They had a bit more on the legs than needed but not enough on the boss so something needed to change which is why I suggested that it's not padding with the hunter having their pet attacking the legs.

Killing legs doesn't actually speed up the encounter (assuming you don't have 4 up when a respawn occurs) until the last phase.

Why would you think that?

Killing a leg with the 100% damage buff active negates 1.5% of his HP so how wouldn't that shorten the encounter?

[Halifax]

Why would you think that?

Killing a leg with the 100% damage buff active negates 1.5% of his HP so how wouldn't that shorten the encounter?

Because they respawn on a set timer, so as long as they are dying within 30 seconds of spawning, putting non-cleave classes to the legs will actually lengthen the encounter because of the lost cleave dps.

...

...

(stop meter padding)

[Zeherah]

Our group specifically leaves the legs for the melee because of the efficiency issue- there are only a certain number of legs that can be killed in the fight, so as others have said, if you are killing them fast enough, you want the people who get the most value out of killing them on them. Having cleave classes doing single target damage waiting for a leg to spawn because non-cleavers were spending effort killing those legs faster is a net dps decrease on the fight. I've only done the fight on 10 in normal mode, so I'm not sure if the group is likely to fall behind on legs in 25, but in 10 our legs go down fast regardless of if we have 3 or 6 people killing them.

Typically what we do is have everyone kill the legs at the start, then only the melee kills legs after that. People for whom it's efficient to multidot will do that. I am SV on the fight and I usually hop in the blue circle, put a multishot on it for stings, then go back to the boss. We usually leave up the front left leg as with tank kiting clockwise it's usually in a bad position for melee to dps. This forces the better positioned legs to respawn instead. The tanks winnow that front left leg down as convenient and we finish it off when the boss is close to death.

Keep in mind also that the damage done to the legs is only really of increased value if you are in the blue circle and/or you're cleaving, as the amount of damage the legs do to the boss when killed is the same amount as the health of the legs. Also note that full debuffs are more likely to be applied to the boss than the legs (except for any applied by melee who don't have time to ever attack the boss) so you will usually get better damage bang for your dps buck when attacking the boss as well (aside from the blue circle multiplier which is only of value when a leg is up)

Spending less time on the legs will definitely reduce your dps on the fight relative to those who are focused on them, but the key should really be total raid damage, not total personal damage.

Update: I re-read some of the earlier posts, it sounds like the argument is over whether the hunter dps on legs is padding in this particular case, not in general. This is really just a question of what the raid makeup is and whether hunter dps is needed on them. If there isn't enough cleave/multi-dot damage to take them down, hunters are one of the better options to help out, as they really don't lose damage while moving. This is a judgement call based on their particular raid setup.

[Tehstool]

Because they respawn on a set timer, so as long as they are dying within 30 seconds of spawning, putting non-cleave classes to the legs will actually lengthen the encounter because of the lost cleave dps.

...

...

(stop meter padding)

You didn't even answer the question. The poster said:

Killing legs doesn't actually speed up the encounter (assuming you don't have 4 up when a respawn occurs) until the last phase.

So that means if you are killing legs it wont speed up the encounter regardless of how you are doing it, which is wrong. Even you agree with me. Thanks.

Again, it's not meter padding, I designed my response for their specific raid comp/dps. Not laying down a blanket statement.

Update: I re-read some of the earlier posts, it sounds like the argument is over whether the hunter dps on legs is padding in this particular case, not in general. This is really just a question of what the raid makeup is and whether hunter dps is needed on them. If there isn't enough cleave/multi-dot damage to take them down, hunters are one of the better options to help out, as they really don't lose damage while moving. This is a judgement call based on their particular raid setup.

That is exactly what I thought and I said that as BM the hunter should put their pet on the leg and SrS then resume attacking the boss because it's a sort of fake "cleave" that way. You will get about ~100% of your damage on the leg from your pet and ~50% of your damage on the boss.

[Conando]

You have a lot of downtime. Are you still attacking the body as you're kiting?

Sometimes people can kite until they're way out of range and screw you up when you take over, so if that's happening then it's a raid issue. Otherwise it's on you to make sure that you're staying within range and attacking while being far enough to be out of the frontal cone. Sometimes I will double up and paint 2 rows if I feel like I'm in danger of moving too fast out of range.