1. #1

    Prot and ret crossover?

    Hey so I was wondering, what's the viability in tanking with a decent amount of ret gear on? I've noticed in many guides and forum posts the stat priority is hit and exp > haste > mastery > dodge/parry. And ret is extremely similar. For just 5 mans and stuff, is it possible to just tank in ret gear? And just a few dedicated tanking pieces like rings, neck, weapon/shield, and maybe a couple items so I'm not completely without dodge/parry? Or would it be best to have an actual full tank set?

    I just noticed the similarities in the stat priorities and thought it might be possible.
    Error 404: Signature not found.

  2. #2
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chemistry block.
    Posts
    11,092
    It's identical except you want 15% expertise for prot, not 7.5% - and the gemming will be different as you'll be gemming various forms of haste rather than strength. The actual items of gear are pretty similar though, will be some exceptions like anything with crit on it will not be used for prot and avoided like the plague, taking what would originally be called a "tanking piece" instead.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    It's identical except you want 15% expertise for prot, not 7.5% - and the gemming will be different as you'll be gemming various forms of haste rather than strength. The actual items of gear are pretty similar though, will be some exceptions like anything with crit on it will not be used for prot and avoided like the plague, taking what would originally be called a "tanking piece" instead.
    I would not say to avoid crit pieces like the plague.
    If it has higher item level, it is probably better.
    Also, in some slots, their are just no good alternatives.
    1 terrible stat and 1 good is still better than 2 bad.

    I would much rather take a crit haste piece than a parry dodge.

    But yeah, the gearing is pretty much the same as ret except crit got alot lower value.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  4. #4
    Hmm I see, well other than JC gems I am aiming largely for haste as ret, and of course avoiding crit gear where possible. Good to know, my "accessories" that I have with actual tanking stats ill just dump them into expertise and give it a try.
    Error 404: Signature not found.

  5. #5
    If you're talking 5-mans, absolutely.

    Haste/Mastery is Prot's most important stats (after hit/exp), and ahead of Dodge/Parry. So going in with proper Ret gear, you're probably already wearing a decent amount of Haste/Master/Hit/Exp. You can always reforge out of Crit into Hit/Exp/Haste as needed.

    LFR and up may be a different story, but for 5-mans like you said? Shouldn't be an issue.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I would not say to avoid crit pieces like the plague.
    If it has higher item level, it is probably better.
    Also, in some slots, their are just no good alternatives.
    1 terrible stat and 1 good is still better than 2 bad.

    I would much rather take a crit haste piece than a parry dodge.

    But yeah, the gearing is pretty much the same as ret except crit got alot lower value.
    Are parry and dodge really so awful now?

    And generally speaking - why haste? I know it's regarded as the best stat for tanking but why?? More HOPO? More seal procs?

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 09:58 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathgoose View Post
    If you're talking 5-mans, absolutely.

    Haste/Mastery is Prot's most important stats (after hit/exp), and ahead of Dodge/Parry. So going in with proper Ret gear, you're probably already wearing a decent amount of Haste/Master/Hit/Exp. You can always reforge out of Crit into Hit/Exp/Haste as needed.

    LFR and up may be a different story, but for 5-mans like you said? Shouldn't be an issue.
    Yeah I mainly just want faster queues, and satchels. And I enjoy tanking less than dps'ing but a lot more than standing afk in org for 15-20 minutes.
    Error 404: Signature not found.

  7. #7
    A good thing to think is just that, higher ilvl = most often better item. Since armor and stamina are very important. Even if the piece got worse secondary stats, getting more stamina, armor, strength and possibly socket is almost always better than a lower ilvl piece with good secondary stats.

    A huge tip is to get the ghost iron dragonling trinket from AH, it is very cheap. 600 haste, hit and expertise cogs.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  8. #8
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chemistry block.
    Posts
    11,092
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    I would much rather take a crit haste piece than a parry dodge.
    Must admit I've not been looking too hard but I don't think there's a slot which is either Parry/Dodge OR Crit/Haste - always seems to be something containing at least mastery which leaves us pretty well off still. I'd rather a Mastery+Dodge than a Haste+Crit unless the amount of haste really outweighs the amount of mastery by a good amount because that's 1 good stat and 1 stat which reduces the damage I take, it's not ideal but it beats crit.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  9. #9
    I've tanked MSV HC in ~485 ret gear (463 wep/shield). Even used ret trinkets. Maxed haste and also went for hard cap expertise. I kept asking our healers if I was hard to heal and they assured me I wasn't.

  10. #10
    Titan MerinPally's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Chemistry block.
    Posts
    11,092
    Quote Originally Posted by Firefly33 View Post
    A huge tip is to get the ghost iron dragonling trinket from AH, it is very cheap. 600 haste, hit and expertise cogs.
    Oh God this, getting one was the first thing I did once I dinged 90 and then weeks later in vent when I heard guildys moaning about having shit trinkets (still, after 3 months...) then someone suggested they get one, their answer was "I thought that was only for engineers?"

    Honestly I wish I could punch people through the internet.
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nicus/advanced
    Quote Originally Posted by Valarius View Post
    Oh shut the fuck up you spack cunt.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Regen View Post
    Are parry and dodge really so awful now?

    And generally speaking - why haste? I know it's regarded as the best stat for tanking but why?? More HOPO? More seal procs?[COLOR="red"]
    Dodge and parry is not really so awful, as other stats are so much better. Thing is, dodge and parry is not reliable, you do not want that as a tank.
    Also dodge and parry scale horribly with other stats.

    As you get more mastery/haste/hit/exp the value of mastery/haste/hit/exp increases.
    However, each point in those stats decreases the value of dodge and parry.
    Also each point in dodge and parry reduces the value of mastery/haste/hit/exp.

    Basically, it is better to just stack one. And stacking haste, hit, exp comes ahead.


    Haste? Well, it is simply king atm. More HoPo = more SotR damage reduction.
    Also as you said, more seal procs.
    More dps
    More SS absorbs

    Its just better in almost every aspect.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-10 at 11:12 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Must admit I've not been looking too hard but I don't think there's a slot which is either Parry/Dodge OR Crit/Haste - always seems to be something containing at least mastery which leaves us pretty well off still. I'd rather a Mastery+Dodge than a Haste+Crit unless the amount of haste really outweighs the amount of mastery by a good amount because that's 1 good stat and 1 stat which reduces the damage I take, it's not ideal but it beats crit.
    Well, it also depends whats available for you. All loot won't drop. If you got a blue piece, getting an epic piece with crit+good stat is probably better. Shouldn't stare blind at BiS and look at upgrades instead.

    I passed on all Tier gears for example, as our tier bonus is quite shitty, I gave them the everyone else first. As I did not really need them myself.
    That gave me a pretty limited choice of items.

    Also passing on dodge/parry items to our prot warrior, even more limiting the drops for me.
    So I often stood between the choice of blue vs epic item with crit on it.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    Oh God this, getting one was the first thing I did once I dinged 90 and then weeks later in vent when I heard guildys moaning about having shit trinkets (still, after 3 months...) then someone suggested they get one, their answer was "I thought that was only for engineers?"

    Honestly I wish I could punch people through the internet.
    Yeah I have one, well like 3. I'll just have to change around what's in it :P

    So what I'm running in my armory would actually be fine?
    Last edited by Regen; 2013-01-10 at 11:11 PM. Reason: updated armory
    Error 404: Signature not found.

  13. #13
    Will be fine for 5 mans. If you are looking into raids, you should do a runover on gems and enchants so you dont have str gems etc and looking to minimize the crits.

    But for 5 mans, go for it. I have tanked several heroics naked with only weapon and shield.
    Gear really doesnt matter.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  14. #14
    Yeah did 7-8 heroics in a row, never wiped. It was nice. I'm trying to push my ilvl above 470 without reps...not as hard as I thought it'd be.
    Error 404: Signature not found.

  15. #15
    I'm tanking all of MSV Heroic and four bosses in HoF Heroic (Wind Lord and Empress being the exception) in full Ret gear excluding the weapons and 1 trinket. There seems to be no need for prot gear in most boss fights.

  16. #16
    Yeah it's not all that bad, it gets rough if I get lazy with SotR/SS but if I stay on it and play properly, I hardly go below 95%. When I pick up another piece or two (see: bracers) I might try out an LFR as tank, just to see.
    Error 404: Signature not found.

  17. #17
    There's even some crit pieces you can wear:
    Malevolent pvp gear 4 set.
    (Take helm/shoulders without crit first ofc)
    Set bonus alone equals a shitload of haste rating for HOPO generation, its quite funny.
    (generally getting even better the more base haste you have)

    I tank in ret reforged gear + 4piece pvp / spare ret parts reforged to expertise, and i often find myself with longer periods of constant SotR uptime... up to 7-10 seconds. (with divine purpose)
    More then 30% haste + pvp 4set (not obtainable by now ofc) could even guarantee constant uptime, where i need 55% haste on my 80 pala twink to achieve the same.

    Math is simple:
    a full cycle takes is:
    0 CS
    1.5 J
    3 x
    4.5 CS
    6 x
    7.5 J
    9 CS
    10.5 x
    12 x
    13.5 CS

    taking 13.5 seconds to build 5 HOPO. (last CS is next cycle)
    you can add roughly 0.5 HOPO / cycle from AS procs taking you to 5.5 HOPO, and add 1 /cycle from pvp 4piece
    Thats an increase of 18%... you can calculate for yourself how muich haste would be required to achieve the same.
    Multipy with 1.25 for DP
    Last edited by Envar; 2013-01-11 at 07:51 AM.

  18. #18
    Since one of our main tanks have been gone for an longer vacation I have tanked all out progresskills in MV heroic (only 3/6 this far), it's my OS. My tankinggear mostly consists of retri-parts with haste/hit, haste/exp that I no longer use for my MS ret. I have 3 blue parts and 3 raid finder parts in my tankinggear. So you should be more then fine tanking in retrigear.

  19. #19
    Pandaren Monk
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    1,953
    I tank LFR and 5 mans in my ret gear, no problem. Half the time I'm top dps and heals, too. It's kind of ridiculous, to be honest. Don't know if its the spec (scaling with vengeance) or people just being bad, but it's probably a mixture of both.

    Yes, you can use your Ret gear. Ret shouldn't have much crit anyway. As people have said, the only difference is you want more expertise and even less crit.

  20. #20
    I'm MS tank, now, but the thing that sucks is that to get good gear from LFR you need to run it as Retribution. If not, the "protection" pieces aren't very well itemized for our current needs. Just switch to Protection spec for weapon/shield/trinket fights to get the correct loot.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •