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  1. #1

    [5.2 PTR] Arcane rotation

    What is the rotation for Arcane in 5.2 PTR?

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by kirit0 View Post
    What is the rotation for Arcane in 5.2 PTR?
    You stack from 1-6, use maybe 1 ab, use AM's and Abarr and then go cry in a corner after realising how bad the 1-6 stack feels..

    Now jokes aside. That prolly how blizzard wants us to do it. Now if it will be the most dps, maybe in standstill fight, but while moving it will be really hard to dps with this rotation. So experimenting is the way to go for now I guess. The new invoc aint out yet and even RoP is nerfed with AB mana increase, so comparison to live is really hard. And new raid aint out on ptr yet so we cant really compare specs on progress either..

  3. #3
    Stood in the Fire NatureDrake's Avatar
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    It's really annoying - because I'm levelling my mage, I'm trying to get used to the current rotation but since it'll change in 5.2 I'm sort of just spamming arcane blast and arcane missiles at the moment. I don't want to get into the habit of an outdated rotation :I

    Scorch's cost is really noticeable on the ptr, though. I was shocked how easily my mana went down...


    Currently playing Guild Wars 2, Dragon Age and Pokémon. Not at the same time, of course. I'm not an octopus.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by NatureDrake View Post
    It's really annoying - because I'm levelling my mage, I'm trying to get used to the current rotation but since it'll change in 5.2
    When leveling, Frost is the best way to go.

    Mage rotations are easy enough to 'figure out' at max level. Most people even do it in about an hour on PTR.

  5. #5
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Mastery 6-Charge camping will be out of the question. Invocation will be viable, with Haste definitely and with Mastery possibly in a slightly more conservative fashion as it was meant. However, I'd refrain from discussing it until some more time passes and we see the adjustments in the next few ptr builds.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    When leveling, Frost is the best way to go.

    Mage rotations are easy enough to 'figure out' at max level. Most people even do it in about an hour on PTR.
    When leveling any spec works just as good as any other for mage. I have lvled 3 mages to max lvl and there is not any noticable difference like it was back with the old talent trees.

    Also interested to see how new rotation will end up beeing.


    Only playing casual in this game now. And damn it feels great.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by NatureDrake View Post
    It's really annoying - because I'm levelling my mage, I'm trying to get used to the current rotation but since it'll change in 5.2 I'm sort of just spamming arcane blast and arcane missiles at the moment. I don't want to get into the habit of an outdated rotation :I

    Scorch's cost is really noticeable on the ptr, though. I was shocked how easily my mana went down...
    your "real" rotation pretty much starts with lvl90 talents as arcane so dont worry about any rotation for now.....

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Saegno's Avatar
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    Most of the players on PTR, including myself, have gone to stacking haste+invocation. Spamming AB+AM till around 30-35% mana then evocating even if you still have the buff.

    Rinse, repeat, gg. I still use scorch for movement but might try ice flows tonight.
    Edit- I should point out that I noticed no real change in dps over haste+6 charge camping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lohe View Post
    If you're semi-hardcore or semi-casual what's the other half? To me, they're both the same thing.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Saegno View Post
    Most of the players on PTR, including myself, have gone to stacking haste+invocation. Spamming AB+AM till around 30-35% mana then evocating even if you still have the buff.

    Rinse, repeat, gg. I still use scorch for movement but might try ice flows tonight.
    Edit- I should point out that I noticed no real change in dps over haste+6 charge camping.
    I bet GC is happy now xD, cause they wanted mages to use mana management, and now its basicly full on AB and AM spam with evocating to full.. Great job Blizz

  10. #10
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Honestly I prefer the constant conserve over the constant burn. But we'll see how it goes.

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Xzan's Avatar
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    Aye, I have no idea what are the guys at Blizz thinking. We simply won't do the ABarr rotation ever unless we get the full cleave effect out of it. It's not worth it otherwise and as long as there's a way to 6-stack camp, we will do just that.

    Currently there is more mana management than there will be in 5.2 regardless of whether they change the Invocation or not. Even now I can play with Invocation with satisfying results (ie. better results than ABarr rotation) if a lot of movement is required on an encounter which would make RoP unviable.

    With RoP you actually have to watch the mana, switch to low-to-no-DPS Scorch and pray for AM procs.
    After 5.2 the nerfed RoP will be out of the equation, nobody will watch mana and nobody will use ABarr because DPS results of such rotation are terrible. We will simply burn the mana with AB and AM only, get rid of as much mastery as possible while getting haste instead and Invocate anytime we go OOM.

    That being said Blizzard should really re-evaluate what are they doing, why are they doing it and whether such actions will have the desired consequences.

  12. #12
    Blademaster Netheris2k's Avatar
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    As i stated in some post before...the current 5.2 ptr changes dont solve anything. i have been on ptr as well these days, and burning mana +invo seems to be a viable way to continue. It doesn't have do to much with mana management though. I have stacked 50% mastery up until now...only GS 479, but i could compete with most others who started doing raids earlier in this exp. If some insane amount of haste can do the same, or anything near the dps now, it just might be that we'll be nerfed again :>

  13. #13
    From notes, it will probably be about stack-maintenance by evoc when needed, cancel out if you still have the buff to throw a Blast or AE, to maintain stack, and complete an evoc whenever it's convenient. ABarr is only for if you do time tricks or when you KNOW you are going to lose your stack. Once the change is actually on PTR I'll test it out (especially if Flows-Evoc ends up working)

  14. #14
    Mechagnome Xzan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsyBomb View Post
    From notes, it will probably be about stack-maintenance by evoc when needed, cancel out if you still have the buff to throw a Blast or AE, to maintain stack, and complete an evoc whenever it's convenient. ABarr is only for if you do time tricks or when you KNOW you are going to lose your stack. Once the change is actually on PTR I'll test it out (especially if Flows-Evoc ends up working)
    Correct.
    The Flows+Invoc will most likely not work... I suppose it'll take the base cast time of Evocation and thus not work with Flows...
    But perhaps Blizz will surprise us. In which case I'd expect a hotfix not long after it hits live due to it being very abusable in PvP...

  15. #15
    What I don't understand is how GC has it in his head that casting Scorch is somehow *not* managing mana. We're casting a low-cost low-dps spell to prevent us from going oom... how again is that not mana management? It might not be the way he wants us to manage mana, but it's mana management nonetheless.

  16. #16
    Moderator Shangalar's Avatar
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    Tier 1 talents are mobility talents. It was never their design to serve as a permanent part of a rotation. Scorch should be used only when you have to move from point A to point B and for some reason you're not using Blink to do it.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Shangalar View Post
    Tier 1 talents are mobility talents. It was never their design to serve as a permanent part of a rotation. Scorch should be used only when you have to move from point A to point B and for some reason you're not using Blink to do it.
    Then again at current implementation blazing speed from tier 2 is better for movement than either flows or PoM... so ye logic does not compute..

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by mrgreenthump View Post
    I bet GC is happy now xD, cause they wanted mages to use mana management, and now its basicly full on AB and AM spam with evocating to full.. Great job Blizz
    Agree. Is hilarious Blizz think that they are making Mages manage mana by removing 6 stack camping

    5.1 Arcane - I have 91% mana and a missile proc... do I use missiles to get back to 100% mana? do I blast? will i need to move soon, and hence burn a bit of mana now since i'll get some mana back while scorching on the run? how long till NT falls off, which gives a bit of mana back as I use a global to reapply it? etc

    5.2 Arcane - NT AB AB AB AB AB AB M AB M AB AB Evo ..how much mana do I have during all this? Doesnt matter!

  19. #19
    In all seriousness, it is waaaaaaay too early to call what the state of Arcane will be at the end of 5.2 PTR. Attempting to optimize yourself for it now, is futile.

    There are just far too many moving parts (or 'non-clamped variables' as L calls them) to accurately predict optimal rotation, let alone optimal gearing strategy. From my understanding, this applies to all three level 90 talents now (yes, including Incanter's Ward, since its relative strength/weakness is directly impacted by changes to the other two).


    I have seen the theory-models and there are many different scenarios that can play out, specifically depending on what the state of Invocation will be next PTR patch. I (along with Logix) was going to post a pretty extensive analysis on the 5.2 level 90 talents and their impact on Arcane (as well as other specs), but we decided to hold off till 5.2 PTR stabilizes (its totally broken right now).


    One thing, however, that is certain, is that Arcane will get more costly.
    With the 10% mana cost increase to AB, along with the regen nerf to RoP, I expect blizz is trying to 'even out' some of the mana buffs they gave the spec in 5.1. The gameplay impact of these is still under heavy debate. Personally, I do not think altering the mana cost of Arcane will help fix some of the core fundamental issues with the spec right now as far as 'dynamic PvE gameplay' is concerned. Logix, however, is not as cynical as me, and has shown me some models which show interesting gameplay being born out of Arcane mana changes.
    I'm not fully convinced yet. I guess we just have to wait and see.


    Basically, sit tight for now. Arcane has always been the spec that can have its gameplay altered purely through number tweaking, hence, even if that is all Blizz wants to do with mages right now, there is still a chance the gameplay of the spec can be saved in 5.2

    The best thing you guys can do right now is make toons on the PTR, test shit out yourselves, get some data, and come back here and post your results. Compare various different rotations at static time intervals and standardized testing scenarios on the PTR. Note your results, and come back in here and post them (maybe even in this very thread). Having a solid body of evidence to back up/contradict theory is always the best way to reach truth.

    Let science do our work for us.
    "Lord Zom cannot really be stopped, just maybe slowed or distracted. Rest assured, if he's looking at you... you will be melted, very shortly."
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  20. #20
    Blademaster Netheris2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euphrates View Post

    5.2 Arcane - NT AB AB AB AB AB AB M AB M AB AB Evo ..how much mana do I have during all this? Doesnt matter!
    this.

    tested it today...

    PTR: AB+AM+NT until about 30% Mana, then Evocation. Haste priority(reforged, other gems etc), frost armor.
    Live: 6-stack camping with scorch and NT, RoP. Mastery priority (my gear atm), mage armor.

    2k dps different on the boss puppet...(Netheris - Mal'Ganis EU; ilvl 479); so well... :> not thaaat much >.>

    i think playing with evo will add some more movement, since we're not bound to our rune anymore. took me about 15-18 seconds to burn mana down to 30%, depending on missile proccs; so the 40 seconds of Invocation buff is enough for us arcane mages...only moving every 20 seconds...well does not work on some bosses...but idc, since im only raidng HoF nhc atm

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