None of those are Warlock spells either and Blizzard clearly associated them more closely with Mages than Warlocks because we got one of their spells in the next expansion >_>
None of those are Warlock spells either and Blizzard clearly associated them more closely with Mages than Warlocks because we got one of their spells in the next expansion >_>
So which ICC bosses were the Warrior, Shaman, Paladin, Druid, Hunter and Priest sets based on?
I'm pretty sure they were loosely class based, at least more so than Firelands.
They can be both "Scourge-esque" and "Class based". There weren't any Crypt Lords in Icecrown Citadel!
You obviously haven't played Fire or Frost. Arcane is on the top because of Scorch.
- L90 talents are NOT fine. They are a huge annoyance while all other classes get fun or passive abilities while our damage is solely reliant on them. Compare them to any other class. We got shafted like crazy.
- Try that in 5.2. 60s w/o an evocate for Invocation will hurt mana, bad.
- Blink is self utility. Not raid. Soaking mechanics, eh, I'll give you that, but I'm referring to "stuff we give the raid", like Tranquility, Lockrocks/Demonic Gateway, VE, Hymn of Hope, etc.
- That's, not the point.
- Scorch is crap compared to other classes.
- It's the fact that all 3 speccs play the exact same way, and no, not all classes are like that. Playing my Shadow Priest, it's a whole different game. My Warlock? Another game. Fire and Frost (as I haven't tried Arcane yet, but I get the gist of it) are the EXACT SAME THINGS.
- What choices are you choosing? T1 is ALWAYS scorch, T2 is ALWAYS IB, T3 doesn't matter, but I take FJ for Lei Shi, T4 is Cauterize, EXCEPT H Elegon, which I'll take G Invis, T5 is Frost Bomb for 1-2 fights and NT for the rest, and T6 is Invocation (or RoP as Arcane). Please, tell me what "choices" are there.
- Except that's a DPS loss if you just hold it, and that's just Frost. What about Fire/Arcane?
- Fire is garbage. Trust me. Frost is okay, but nothing amazing. Arcane is only top because of Scorch's low mana, which is gone in 5.2.
- Freezing adds in place, mass AoE slows? Hmm, sounds only useful on Elegon and Lei Shi. WOW, TWO FIGHTS THAT A FEW OF OUR MECHANICS ARE PRETTY NICE. TWO, OUT OF SIXTEEN.
Yeah, we're not the most amazing guild, but if these are legitimate issues in NORMALS, then I can only imagine how HEROIC is (hell, I'm already having a horrible time trying to get through them). If you really see no problem with the L90 talents, then I'd love to see your armory just to confirm you're actually raiding.
Being allowed to use a garbage sprint on demand is too OP? They should learn what OP means.
RoP doesn't have a 100% uptime, plus you don't waste a cast time to re-get Spirit Bond (since it doesn't have a 1m duration). SB >>>>>>>>> RoP on the grand scheme of things, but, yes, purely mathematically, they're equal, but that's a horribly stupid way to look at it.
THANK YOU. That's what I'm trying to get at!
Which itself is a joke. Using a garbage sprint on demand is too OP? Not to mention one that requires giving up Ice Barrier.
Damage is another issue. Fire is crap and Frost is okay. Arcane is high only because of Scorch's low mana cost, which is being fixed in 5.2, so damage is a whole nother issue. If you don't know the issues, you clearly don't play Mage. Looking at your signature, that's pretty much a confirmation and your points are quite invalid here.
As Arcane with Scorch Weaving, sure. As Fire or Frost? No, we're not.
I cannot agree with this quote enough times. DPS is not the end-all most important thing here, guys. I don't get why QoL issues aren't relevant here to some of you.
Also, can everyone just shut the fuck up about our tier sets? Transmog gear is completely irrelevant here and I don't see why you guys are bothering to discuss that in a QoL thread.
Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-01-13 at 09:09 PM.
Still wondering why I play this game.
I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.
i Personaly hate my mage. I love my mage whole time since tbc to cataclysm. When Mop hit i start get so bored. Forced t spec arcane to do competive dmg. Limited and penalised by talents instead of giving some bonus to my class. If i could know back in tbc what i know now i would create something els but never ever mager again.
This is completely off-topic, but there you go:So which ICC bosses were the Warrior, Shaman, Paladin, Druid, Hunter and Priest sets based on?
I'm pretty sure they were loosely class based, at least more so than Firelands.
They can be both "Scourge-esque" and "Class based". There weren't any Crypt Lords in Icecrown Citadel!
- Warrior and Shaman: Vrykul
- Druid: Mutated experiments (Plague Quarter in Naxx)
- Priest: Cult of the Damned
- Hunter: Nerubian
I'm not saying the sets are completely unrelated to each class, but from a design point of view they're fashioned after the Scourge. I doubt there's any deeper meaning, just like with tier 12 (e.g. Paladins and Fire elementals).
Pretty much answered it yourself here.
QoL is also about the general enjoyability of the class, abilities, gameplay, rotation, style, look of spells, everything. Tier sets aren't the most important thing, but they are a factor, and an indicator for a lack of theme, idea what to do with the class.
This is the only thing you've said which I slightly disagree on. Frost Bomb is pretty useful for Frost as it is a predictable BF cast. Not to mention Frost Bomb and NT are virtually equal on one target.
Also as frost you can take advantage of using Freeze the second before Frost Bomb goes off, dramatically improving your damage and giving you an instant arsenal of fully loaded procs.
I will say though, NT is better for mobility by a long shot.
Nyeh. Mog doesn't really constitute fun, unless you're really that much into fashion, though I will agree it shows they have no theme for Mages atm. Still, it's not as big of an issue.
I've been playing Frost the last month or so (started with it, dropped it for Fire, then went back to it after Fire got nerfed hardcore). I was using Frost Bomb, and until you get H LotC (or you don't have Essence of Terror yet, but you do have N LotC), Frost Bomb is better, but once you get H LotC (or again, no EoT but do have N LotC) NT is actually better. Again, this is for ST DPS.
The bomb aside, there are no choices. Scorch, IB, <Doesn't Matter>, Cauterize (G Invis for H Elegon), WHAT COLOR IS YOUR BOMB?! (only choice), and Invo for Fire/Frost; RoP for Arcane.
So besides the Bomb, which isn't even that big of a choice, where are our "choices"?
PS: Name me a single boss in MoP that is shatterable. What you said only works for Trash, AoE packs, and dungeon runs.
Still wondering why I play this game.
I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.
Ok guys, crazy idea for Arcane. What if Arcane Barrage only cleared -half- of your Arcane Charges; making it more of a management tool akin to Scorch currently.
Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
The only problem I see with this is it would continue to encourage high AC stacking, but it would at least encourage us to use ABarr more.
In addition, this is only a change to Arcane's rotation and a fix to Scorch-weaving, but it doesn't fix our QoL nor does it even touch Fire/Frost.
Still wondering why I play this game.
I'm a Rogue and I also made a spreadsheet for the Order Hall that is updated for BfA.
you said DPS is not the problem and "lvl 90 talents are annoying" then use IW
scorch is crap compare to other class......compare to other class....... THATS WHATS WRONG, you are "comparing" a talent to other class talent stop it (i wish they buffed icy flow and POM a little bit)
you seem to know alot about mages even though you "havent tried arcane yet" please go play arcane before telling us how stupid mages are...
oh and spirest rotation is soooo boring..... they need to add another orb generating mechanic -_- (30% to generate shadow orb when finishing mind flay or something)
ok...ok.... you said you havent played arcane yet you are telling us arcane dps will be shit when they remove scorch rotation. oh please this is the most dumbest thing ive heard seriously, try like managaing your mana maybe??? its not hard you just need to look at your mana
not going to quote anything about frost since im not really interested in frost right now..... zzzzzz
only thing i would agree with you is yes blink is not a raid cd its a self utility lol. i wish mage had a raid cd (not time warp sorry something liek damage red or whole raid alter time)
not a bad idea but might as well just lower arcane charge max stack to 4 then zzzzz
http://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=dw+soul+roc in oceanic now Lol
5172-1206-0622 pokemon FC Lets Battle!!
I have to agree with this. I don't remember the last time I switched talents for a fight. Glyphs on the other hand I switch regularly (depending if fight has cleave/ trash/ single, e.g. use glyph of Ice Lance or not). But even then its a switch between two fixed sets of glyphs.
switch greater invis/cold snap occasionally for H elegon, H sha of fear
switch TS for H viz, H 4kings, H SG
switch to IW for H will, garalon, H tsulong
scorch is broken right now so yea...no need to change -_-
bombs are meh but there arent many fights that involve whole council boss with separate hp these days(or gets to full hp when one dies)......
hell i switch my talent all the time depending on what fights, sure i dont switch them when its on pure farm but when its progression i try to "maximise" my perfomrance but switching my glyphs/talents. so if you say you arent switching talent for a fight then you arent playing mage to maximum potential
http://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=dw+soul+roc in oceanic now Lol
5172-1206-0622 pokemon FC Lets Battle!!
If u dont switch Talents u dont get the most out of your char.
I dont want to hang up in this discussion because its more like a flame and i have to say @dragon at first u have good points but in the end u start crying over and over again and thats annoying. Everytime i look into the forum and i see a post of u i know its another mimimi.
Some things i will only say:
U (u all not one special) are crying about bad movement, bad selfheal, bad utility, bad talents and say class x has y which is better....
And after all u cry about mages not being unique anymore. U got the point? If we get the same movement selfheal utility and talents like, let me say hunter, i think all what happen would be that mages cry all over they are like hunters and remove the class and so on and so on.
I dont want to be a hunter. Im a mage. I know that im are bad at moving and selfheal.
I think scorch is enough for moving. Sure its place in the talens is not the best idea but i dont want more. Im a steady glass canon.
Also i dont want selfheal. Im a dd not a healer.
Im in a raid to deliver dps. U say dps are a cover which might be true. But isnt that what we wanted? We cryed for years we are a dpsclass and dont want support. As supporters startet to deliver dps everyone was crying.
Sure our rotation could be better but no utility. No selfheal. No movement. We have blink and scorch. Thats enough.
lvl90-Talents:
Lets take a look:
Shadows: Yeah another cd pressed on cooldown and nothing more. Beside the fact that nearly all shadows took the same talent because they are not all equal. Is that really fun? I dont think so.
Warlocks: A movement tool (wait we have in in t1 they have it in t6 a little bit stronger but the rest was said above.
Another 2mincd with dmg. Might be interresting but on the other side i dont see the fantastic new fun again. Just one more button to press.
500% on aoe. Hell yeah thats the most overpowered and funniest talent ever in mop... wait.. i dont think that.
Warrior: All i see are 3 cds. Some short some long. All do damage and all are used at cooldown. Again i dont see the fun.
Hunter: Should i repeat me? 3 Cds. Mostly only one is choosen. One is for aoe one for singletarget. Fun? I dont see it.
Shaman: Here we got 1. The elemental is really funny. But thats all. The other 2 are just cds again.
Rogue: I dont say something here. As pointed out this class has their one major issues.
The rest goes on. I dont look at all classes and i dont have all classes but to say that every other 90er talent is fun is imo just wrong.
I know Mana in this talents is a problem. I as frost im afraid of invo 5.2 as it is on the ptr right now. But i hope that they will see that and fix it.
Beside that manaproblem i dont have a problem with the 90er talents overall. As said from others. Invo is fine and should stay as it is. IW and RoP need some fixes but not a great overhaul.
So just my 2 cent , now u can flame me.
I'm pretty sure he was talking about mages for that part :U
And he's right, any Mage who leaves their talents totally static is missing out.
Ideally this would be true of all the tiers of the Mage tree and isn't, and ideally this would be true for all classes but it isn't, but we are getting there.
I'm surprised he didn't bring up DK 90 talents to be honest.