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  1. #21
    Interesting bonuses. The 2-piece doesn't sound great until you consider how it will work with Holy Avenger. HA already buffs Daybreak by 30%, so during HA when we really want to be bursting out aoe healing anyway, daybreak now gets an additional 20% buff on top of the HA bonus.

    The 4-set, I don't like as much as the tier 14 bonus since I'll probably be giving up my 4 second holy shocks to get this, but it does make beacon swapping much more attractive as a mechanic of our play. We'll probably see glyph of beacon more frequently with this set bonus to maximize the capability of the set.

    To my mind, 2-set bonuses should be a small buff to normal healing situations with no real playstyle change needed to gain the benefit. Both tier 14 and the proposed tier 15 do this very well by making HR less mana intense or buffing daybreak healing.

    4-sets, I feel, should be a small buff for players who do nothing to maximize the potential of the set such as buffing beacon transfers. But to players who adapt their playstyle to account for the new bonus, the buff should be fairly substantial. I think tier 15 actually accomplishes this goal better than tier 14. Currently, the majority of holy pallies lives by the rule of "cast HS on cooldown". Shortening the cd does not change this rule, so it doesn't require a playstyle change to gain the full benefit. Tier 15 buffs a spell that a lot of players would simply cast on the tank and forget it for the rest of the fight. Buffing beacon transfer allows players to adopt their playstyle, possibly with use of glyph of beacon, to gain much higher benefit from the set than the would by simply accepting 20% more healing to the tank.
    Last edited by Kurzior; 2013-01-14 at 06:30 PM.

  2. #22
    Mechagnome Yzyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacer View Post
    Im pretty sure its going to be multiplicative which means its going to be 120%, 18% and 60%. Anything else is going to be incredibly overpowered.
    Exactly. This is how it will work. I don't think 2pc will make us want to break the current t14 4pc but 4pc t15 will probably be worth it when you include other stats from it simply being of a higher ilvl.

    I think you people are underestimating Daybreak though. When you consider the fights in t14, nearly all of them have a stacked up AOE phase or consistent AOE damage. 50% increase is a considerable boost to a free splash heal.

    But as we all know, this is only the PTR. Things are subject to change.

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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by hempaa View Post
    Even if u glyph beacon, i dont think it worth all the globals and etc, maybe on specific cases.
    Glyphed beacon doesnt take a global
    beacon swapping (with the glyph) is an amazing situational throughput increase. One of these days I might make some kind of guide for it.. but I'm really lazy so probably not

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Yzyz View Post
    I think you people are underestimating Daybreak though. When you consider the fights in t14, nearly all of them have a stacked up AOE phase or consistent AOE damage. 50% increase is a considerable boost to a free splash heal.
    Even on 'good' Daybreak fights with stacked phases we're only looking at about 2-3% Daybreak healing, so the 2pc will a 1-1.5% boost on ideal Paladin AoE fights. Of course, on bad fights where HR has no use Daybreak drops to less than 0.5% healing and the 2pc is useless. I'm talking 10s of course. 25s will probably see more mileage as you can always HR the melee. The same problem as the current 2pc as it happens. In 10s there are a lot of fights when you can't use HR.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 10:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by dennisdkramer View Post
    Glyphed beacon doesnt take a global
    beacon swapping (with the glyph) is an amazing situational throughput increase. One of these days I might make some kind of guide for it.. but I'm really lazy so probably not
    I understand the glyph as a HP generator. You make a macro for when you want to DL a raid member and pop the beacon on beforehand to generate HP. Of course, you're losing the beacon transfer but if the tank doesn't need it then you haven't really lost anything.

    I don't, however, understand the talk of beacon swapping with the glyph with the new 4pc. You can't really macro that. The beacon might not use a global but how are you putting a beacon on one target right as you drop a heal on another? While possible within the mechanics of the game is it practical within what you can macro / click at once?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    I don't, however, understand the talk of beacon swapping with the glyph with the new 4pc. You can't really macro that. The beacon might not use a global but how are you putting a beacon on one target right as you drop a heal on another? While possible within the mechanics of the game is it practical within what you can macro / click at once?
    4set bonus becomes realy good with LoD, Lights Hammer, EF, even HR.
    LoD: This is the most easy to use, as you can simply keep your 'mouse over' cast beacon macro, use that and directly following use LoD (don't need to swap targets)
    Lights Hammer: Same as for LoD but you do need to ground target it
    EF: EF is alot differend in that you can simply move over your beacon as the HoT is ticking
    HR, HL, HS, FoL: These recuire you to move quickly over 2 differend targets, pressing your Beacon macro on the first, and your heal as you move over the second.
    Now another thing to consider is instead of going for the mouse over approuch for beacon is to set your beacon to cast on your 'selected' target, and just continue mouse over healing. This lets you pre target a person (for instance while you cast your heals you can already click on another raid member). This method seems alot quicker and reliable.
    And well continueing the 'selected' beacon/'mouse over' healing combination, you can even macro all your heals to first cast beacon on your target and your heal afterwards (note that this does show all the macro's with a 3second cooldown, meaning you need 2 macro's for each "spammable" heal (1 with the beacon and 1 without).
    It all comes down to prefference, but I am already swapping beacons around like a mad cow, and I can safely say It realy improves your Healing output (less overhealing, more holy power generation)
    Glyphs: Divinity and Beacon of Light combined with Talent: Unbreakable Spirit, is what i use, and I don't see myself swapping any of those out anytime soon (especially not with these T15 spoilers)

  6. #26
    I think what he means is beacon swapping is already useful. More healing transfer to beacon will make beacon swapping even more useful.

  7. #27
    Mechagnome Yzyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    Even on 'good' Daybreak fights with stacked phases we're only looking at about 2-3% Daybreak healing, so the 2pc will a 1-1.5% boost on ideal Paladin AoE fights. Of course, on bad fights where HR has no use Daybreak drops to less than 0.5% healing and the 2pc is useless. I'm talking 10s of course. 25s will probably see more mileage as you can always HR the melee. The same problem as the current 2pc as it happens. In 10s there are a lot of fights when you can't use HR.
    Yea, I would agree that you wouldn't get much more out of it from 10s but I raid 25s. On a fight like Garalon H, Our other holy pally was put on tank duty and I was stuck with pheremone chasing. So granted, we weren't able to focus 100% on the stacked raid. His Daybreak was at 6.9% and mine at 4.4% (I was a bit more out of range then he and he runs Holy Avenger to my Divine Purpose). With 50% more healing, the new higher ilvl, I wouldn't think it would be out of place to say we could easily hit 11-14% on a stacked AOE fight.

    Now, that is stacked AOE consistent damage. Fights that are spread out or don't have consistent damage, we will probably see it dip as low as probably 4%. Not the best in every situation but still. If you are using HR and HS on CD like you are supposed to in 25s (fight permitted), its a free AOE heal that only gets better with the 2p.

    Just as a side note for myself, what is the community running with 4p t14? Divine Purpose or Holy Avenger?
    Last edited by Yzyz; 2013-01-15 at 08:29 PM.

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  8. #28
    Divine Purpose mostly although I switch to Holy Avenger for a few fights (Tsulong, Blade Lord). Holy avenger is really quite powerful for burst damage. I used DP for a few reasons, I enjoy being surprised by the occasional 4 proc from DP, it also makes EF blanketing easier for more consistent damage fights, and I am already bad enough at managing the basic cooldowns we have.

  9. #29
    Mechagnome Yzyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by monikasun88 View Post
    Divine Purpose mostly although I switch to Holy Avenger for a few fights (Tsulong, Blade Lord). Holy avenger is really quite powerful for burst damage. I used DP for a few reasons, I enjoy being surprised by the occasional 4 proc from DP, it also makes EF blanketing easier for more consistent damage fights, and I am already bad enough at managing the basic cooldowns we have.
    Glad I am not the only one >.< I have a hard time remembering that a lot of these fights easily make it possible to use Divine Favor and Avenging Wrath at least twice. I need to set some macros or something.. le sigh. I have been wanting a list of fights that you would pick one talent over the others. I forgot Holy Avenger gives 30% extra healing and see why it would be great for tsulong.. duh.. Thanks for the advice Monika!

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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Pasture View Post
    Even on 'good' Daybreak fights with stacked phases we're only looking at about 2-3% Daybreak healing, so the 2pc will a 1-1.5% boost on ideal Paladin AoE fights. Of course, on bad fights where HR has no use Daybreak drops to less than 0.5% healing and the 2pc is useless. I'm talking 10s of course. 25s will probably see more mileage as you can always HR the melee. The same problem as the current 2pc as it happens. In 10s there are a lot of fights when you can't use HR.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-14 at 10:42 PM ----------


    I understand the glyph as a HP generator. You make a macro for when you want to DL a raid member and pop the beacon on beforehand to generate HP. Of course, you're losing the beacon transfer but if the tank doesn't need it then you haven't really lost anything.

    I don't, however, understand the talk of beacon swapping with the glyph with the new 4pc. You can't really macro that. The beacon might not use a global but how are you putting a beacon on one target right as you drop a heal on another? While possible within the mechanics of the game is it practical within what you can macro / click at once?
    No offense to the other guy who responded to you but his approach is a bit silly.
    My answer is this - with spell queueing you can swap your beacon near the end of your GCD and then simply cast your heal as normal. No macros, no complications, its that easy.

    watch this at 00:58:00 to see an example where I swap beacon to benefit from it for my next two casts (holy shock and eternal flame). Yes this is a bad example for a few reasons but Im way too lazy to find a good one and I was ret most of the raid. Ignore the extraneous UI elements - I just uploaded this vid for personal use. The rest of it is downright unimpressive but it illustrates my point - that if there are two targets taking damage you want to utilize your beacon fully to not waste the potential 50% healing from shock, WoG, etc.

    For the record I hate playing with a disc priest - its impossible to preemptively beacon because they can pop a 200k shield on someone at the drop of a hat. Luckily our priest prefers holy and will probably return to it when disc is nerfed.
    Last edited by dennisdkramer; 2013-01-16 at 10:04 PM.

  11. #31
    So is the 20% additive or multiplicative (70% or 60%).

    Also you can already heal someone and right afterward beacon someone and the heal will transfer to the new target, problem is if you are spamming its hard to chain cast due to mouse travel time.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by silverhatred View Post
    So is the 20% additive or multiplicative (70% or 60%).

    Also you can already heal someone and right afterward beacon someone and the heal will transfer to the new target, problem is if you are spamming its hard to chain cast due to mouse travel time.
    You could decrease the travel time if you choose your next target to beacon while you are casting a heal on someone else. Works better if you use mouseover heals but putting the beacon on your target, instead of mouseover.

  13. #33
    To me this looks like EF Blanketing will be even stronger because of the HoT going to beacon. Glyph of Beacon of Light will be much more valuable because of the importance of where your beacon is and being able to switch it quickly to get those +20% transferred heals to the target you want.

    That being said, the 2 pc to me is rather meh and I won't be breaking T14 4pc until I have T15 4pc to replace it with.

  14. #34
    I think I'll keep 4 pc 517 T14 at least until I can get the 522 T15 or higher.

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by LAww_WWW View Post
    Compared to the bonuses the other healers get i really hope they are NOT final
    Well, holy paladins didn't get anything thus far! Every other class has had spells added/modified. I'm disappointed!
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  16. #36
    Holy palys are in a pretty good place right now so I guess blizzard went with the if it ain't broke don't try to fix it approach, boring but I guess it works unless we end up being underpowered in 5.2 then they better be prepared for a cryfest. Also, we did get some things modified.

    +100% to EF on self
    +10% dr to Hand of Purity

    T15 hasn't been changed since it was released and has had a pretty lackluster response. I won't be upgrading to T15 for awhile...

  17. #37
    As I did some ptr testing, I think holy pally will be one of the top healers in T15.

  18. #38
    Mechagnome Yzyz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Valen~ View Post
    Well, holy paladins didn't get anything thus far! Every other class has had spells added/modified. I'm disappointed!
    No real reason to. Pallys are very solid at the moment in almost all aspects. I would like a bigger AoE healing CD such as Divine Hymn, Tranq, Healing Tide, Revival but we are in a very good spot. I'm happy we only got minor changes because if they were going to be bigger, we probably would of gotten a nerf. I count my blessings that EF wasn't nerfed to limited amount of targets or something >.<

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  19. #39
    Herald of the Titans Aqua's Avatar
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    Mmm I'm going to let the priests and warlock on my team grab the tier pieces first.. it just doesn't seem worth fighting for them straight away.
    We're pretty good healers. And yeah If I was Blizzard if something was working this well, I wouldn't wanna break or mess with anything either.
    EF Blanketing hasn't been limited. Our mastery is still giving very desirable absorbs... Our raw healing output is strong and our cooldowns helpful.

    I mean what do we need? Nothing. Some changes are nice, but sometimes it's better to smile and carry on.
    Quote Originally Posted by savutitus View Post
    Yeah, it's always WAR WAR WAR untill..BY ALL THAT IS HOLY DO YOU SEE THAT ENEMY OVER THERE?? GLORIOUS LOOT!!!!!

  20. #40
    2 set bonus looks extremely boring. Might be pretty good in 25 man, but in 10 man where people are usually more spread out and scarce, this will probably not even be noticeable

    4 set bonus is very meh aswell, but it's decent.

    Looks like I'm probably gonna ignore tier until I get 4 set, unless the piece I get have spirit/mastery.

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