1. #1

    [Destro] Is "multidotting" with Immolate worth it?

    For example, on council fights like Protectors, or Dark Shaman, is it a dps increase to keep Immolate applied to as many bosses as possible?

    Example with Dark Shaman:
    Immolate Kardris, Immolate Haromm, normal rotation on Haromm, Immolate Kardris again, Immolate Haromm again etc.

    Or on Protectors apply Immolate to all targets then go back to the focus prio target.

  2. #2
    Yes, the ember regeneration lost from not keeping Immolate on as many targets as you can (provided it ticks twice, if I'm not mistaken) is a huge loss.

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  3. #3
    On fights where the damage on all targets actually count (for example protectors, but not paragons) Immolate should be very high on your priority list for all targets, as its dpet is almost as high as chaos bolt (in addition to giving you embers)

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Trizone View Post
    On fights where the damage on all targets actually count (for example protectors, but not paragons) Immolate should be very high on your priority list for all targets, as its dpet is almost as high as chaos bolt (in addition to giving you embers)
    Keeping Immolate up on all three targets on Paragons increases your ember generation (especially when you can hit more than one with RoF), resulting in a decent increase in single target DPS.

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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by striderZA View Post
    Keeping Immolate up on all three targets on Paragons increases your ember generation (especially when you can hit more than one with RoF), resulting in a decent increase in single target DPS.
    I dunno if you intended to imply this, but RoF generates the same amount of embers on a target with or without Immolate. Immolate only increases the damage RoF does.

    In terms of single target damage, I'd say about 3 is the maximum number of targets you'd want to consider multidotting for a single target boost in damage.

  6. #6
    Mechagnome Durantye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I dunno if you intended to imply this, but RoF generates the same amount of embers on a target with or without Immolate. Immolate only increases the damage RoF does.

    In terms of single target damage, I'd say about 3 is the maximum number of targets you'd want to consider multidotting for a single target boost in damage.
    But padding is important D:

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I dunno if you intended to imply this, but RoF generates the same amount of embers on a target with or without Immolate. Immolate only increases the damage RoF does.

    In terms of single target damage, I'd say about 3 is the maximum number of targets you'd want to consider multidotting for a single target boost in damage.
    Yeah I did imply that, for some reason I thought it increases ember regen (on targets with Immolate) as well as RoF damage, silly me >.<

    It still provides decent ember regen if two or more targets are stacked together though, doesn't it?
    Last edited by striderZA; 2014-07-23 at 04:04 PM.

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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    In terms of single target damage, I'd say about 3 is the maximum number of targets you'd want to consider multidotting for a single target boost in damage.

    shadowfury+FnB Immolate on paragons parasites #1 ember capper

    yea 3~ targets is definitely worth it, as destro i come close to aff burst on skeer because im ember capped on the pull with trinkets.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by striderZA View Post
    Yeah I did imply that, for some reason I thought it increases ember regen (on targets with Immolate) as well as RoF damage, silly me >.<

    It still provides decent ember regen if two or more targets are stacked together though, doesn't it?
    RoF is only marginally not worth it single target (barely!). If you get multiple targets stacked it gets even better.

    Immolate on ~3 is the max for a single target increase before you start spending too much time maintaining Immolate and not tunneling the mob that matters. Each Immolate provides ember generation. RoF on mobs will provide ember generation. The only synergy between Immolate and RoF is that RoF ticks harder if Immolate is present on an afflicted target.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    RoF is only marginally not worth it single target (barely!). If you get multiple targets stacked it gets even better.

    Immolate on ~3 is the max for a single target increase before you start spending too much time maintaining Immolate and not tunneling the mob that matters. Each Immolate provides ember generation. RoF on mobs will provide ember generation. The only synergy between Immolate and RoF is that RoF ticks harder if Immolate is present on an afflicted target.
    That clears it up. Thank you!

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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    RoF is only marginally not worth it single target (barely!). If you get multiple targets stacked it gets even better.

    Immolate on ~3 is the max for a single target increase before you start spending too much time maintaining Immolate and not tunneling the mob that matters. Each Immolate provides ember generation. RoF on mobs will provide ember generation. The only synergy between Immolate and RoF is that RoF ticks harder if Immolate is present on an afflicted target.
    Do harder RoF ticks also apply to FnB Immolate?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jabulaniman View Post
    Do harder RoF ticks also apply to FnB Immolate?
    Yes, FnB-Immolate provides harder hitting RoF ticks.

  13. #13
    Mechagnome Durantye's Avatar
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    The only fight I've noticed that you shouldn't immolate every single target is Paragons but even Paragons after the parasites are gone you should immolate all of them, everything in every fight needs to die anyways (except heroic garrosh adds but FnB immo and rain of fire on those can make for some tasty chaos bolt spam if your guild allows it).

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    RoF is only marginally not worth it single target (barely!). If you get multiple targets stacked it gets even better.
    At some point though, it becomes argueable whether or not you should spend the GCD on RoF, in an AoE situation. For example, on garrosh ( hc for me ), I don't even bother using RoF on the 1st set after placing it down just before they reach the boss, for the ember regen. After that though, you swim in embers, and it's better to just tunnel incin ( or Shadowburn havoc into the boss ).

    OT:Yes, keeping up immolate is worth it. If you're dealing with quite a few targets ( I.E. shamans on pull ), I believe it's better to just use FnB>Immolate, because you'll be spending so much time casting immolate on all targets, and later on refreshing it once again. All that time is you could've used actually damaging the targets ( I just tend to aoe like a mad man on the pull, untill I can use havoc to Shadowburn the boss ). In the situation of Paragons, it would still be an single target increase to keep up Immolate on everything, which shouldn't be such a hassle as there are usually 3 targets up. When the parasites spawn ( I think people only do this on heroic though ), just use FnB>Immolate on them when they are grouped up. If your group uses a mass grip on them for CC purpose like stuns, this is a very good opportunity to do this. Aside of that, try and use RoF around 2-3 of the bosses whenever possible. All of this is because both Immolate and RoF give essentially free embers, allowing you to push out more Chaos Bolts.
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  15. #15
    Thanks for the replies, one more thing: Do crits from FnB Immolate also generate Embers?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jabulaniman View Post
    Thanks for the replies, one more thing: Do crits from FnB Immolate also generate Embers?
    Yep, they do.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mitbrandir View Post
    At some point though, it becomes argueable whether or not you should spend the GCD on RoF, in an AoE situation. For example, on garrosh ( hc for me ), I don't even bother using RoF on the 1st set after placing it down just before they reach the boss, for the ember regen. After that though, you swim in embers, and it's better to just tunnel incin ( or Shadowburn havoc into the boss ).

    OT:Yes, keeping up immolate is worth it. If you're dealing with quite a few targets ( I.E. shamans on pull ), I believe it's better to just use FnB>Immolate, because you'll be spending so much time casting immolate on all targets, and later on refreshing it once again. All that time is you could've used actually damaging the targets ( I just tend to aoe like a mad man on the pull, untill I can use havoc to Shadowburn the boss ). In the situation of Paragons, it would still be an single target increase to keep up Immolate on everything, which shouldn't be such a hassle as there are usually 3 targets up. When the parasites spawn ( I think people only do this on heroic though ), just use FnB>Immolate on them when they are grouped up. If your group uses a mass grip on them for CC purpose like stuns, this is a very good opportunity to do this. Aside of that, try and use RoF around 2-3 of the bosses whenever possible. All of this is because both Immolate and RoF give essentially free embers, allowing you to push out more Chaos Bolts.
    RoF still does significant damage with Immolate up, and I believe isn't AoE capped like our AoE spells normally are. In addition, it doesn't have a ~50% penalty on damage done like Incinerate does for AoE. I'm pretty sure there's no point where you'd want to sacrifice RoF.

  17. #17
    Mechagnome Durantye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Yep, they do.

    - - - Updated - - -



    RoF still does significant damage with Immolate up, and I believe isn't AoE capped like our AoE spells normally are. In addition, it doesn't have a ~50% penalty on damage done like Incinerate does for AoE. I'm pretty sure there's no point where you'd want to sacrifice RoF.
    I'm not sure what the cap is but there is a point where RoF isn't really worth it since the time spent using a RoF would be better off casting another incinerate, refreshing immos, or conflaging. I also believe that since there are many fights where adds just kill over so fast in groups (Galakras, Sha of Pride, Nazgrim starter adds, sometimes Spoils, ect.) since RoF wouldn't have gotten much up time a conflag is a better spent GCD in FNB or an incinerate. I was also under the impression our FnB didn't have an aoe cap (broken) unlike other classes aoe.

    Of course if you use Mannoroth's Fury this situation isn't even remotely possible to achieve :P but there are situations where I think casting a rain of fire is a waste, especially on huge packs.

  18. #18
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    No. Rain of Fire, Fire and Brimstone + Immolate, Conflagrate, and Incinerate spam is all you need.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjoswald View Post
    No. Rain of Fire, Fire and Brimstone + Immolate, Conflagrate, and Incinerate spam is all you need.
    Have you made it your goal to post as many ignorant statements in the warlock forums as possible in the next hour?

  20. #20
    High Overlord Melian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    I'm pretty sure there's no point where you'd want to sacrifice RoF.
    This exactly was a question I asked myself many times! Though I never calculated anything, because I was quite sure that someone already did this and if it would ever be that important to know, I could just ask.
    But if our "guide-god" Brusalk doesn't know, then I have to take some looks at my logs.

    I looked at last weeks Garrosh HC log and found out, that the one RoF in the first Warbringer phase resulted 1.44m damage. In the same Phase, the 5 (FnB) Incinnerates I casted, dealt 30 Hits resulting in an average of 2.58mio damage per single Incinnerate cast.
    As I am either under Meta-Gem Proc, or Backdraft Buff, no Incinnerate takes more than one GCD to cast, leading me to the assumption that RoF is not worth it under this cirmustances.
    However I would not be able to ensure leaving at least 1 Ember during the first few casts, which is why I would keep up RoF anyways at least one time - after the first RoF everything is dead in our raid, so the question doesn't realy exist for me.
    Also this consideration is for Warbringer wave 1 on Garrosh 25hc only (so 8 targets most of the time - Garrosh, 6 Warbringers and the Desecrated Weapon -, along with almost all proccs).
    Last edited by Melian; 2014-07-27 at 12:15 AM.
    Krallnor <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU formerly known as Melian <Lords of Heaven> - Eredar EU
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