1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Mugajak View Post
    I'd sooner say the first question remains unanswered, but the question implies the answer for the second (yes, you wait on the 2nd HoG CD in order to get a doubled shadowflame from meta - this is also covered on the first page in Zinnin's guide).

    To answer your first question: yeah, it's a rollercoaster. Damage drops low, then spikes back up around good CD usage. This gap is largely implied, and should be made more obvious as mastery levels increase, by reading our mastery tooltip. That damage increase under Meta just gets silly. Take a look at with DS:K active.
    No, what I meant was after initial opener right? After the 2 stacks fall off... Do I completely wait for HoG to recharge twice until I cast them again or do I cast off CD?

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by BossChef View Post
    No, what I meant was after initial opener right? After the 2 stacks fall off... Do I completely wait for HoG to recharge twice until I cast them again or do I cast off CD?
    Within the margin of time where you can apply the second SF before the first SF drops (near the end of the second recharge) - and this is still covered in the opening guide - specifically because the debuff stacks, and, more importantly, you can roll that double-SF into meta form every time, not just on the opening. Anything worth doing in the first 15 seconds for weaving extra damage in is, generally speaking, always worth doing. That's also pretty much exactly what I said in my first response =/ a doubled shadowflame requires 2 HoG casts.

    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    **Hand of Guldan- The 'correct' way to use Hand of Gul'dan is to wait until there is less then 6s until you get 2 charges of HoG. You then want to use one charge, cast a few spells, and then clip shadowflame right before it runs out so you have ~5s of a one stack shadowflame, then 6s of a 2 stack
    shadowflame. Doing this correctly will make Hand of Gul'dan out-preform Chaos Wave virtually always, and makes Chaos Wave pretty useless in PvE.
    Directly quoted from the opening post.
    Last edited by Kael; 2013-03-04 at 06:44 AM.

  3. #383
    High Overlord Sayier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    . The Lei Shen trinket requires you do make sure you are never not in Meta when metamorphosis is on cooldown, which requires slightly different play then normal.
    The double negative in this sentence killed my brain but I think I finally got it. So the goal is to make sure Meta is always available so that when the trinket procs you can pop into meta to refresh doom and corruption for the 100% crit correct?

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by Sayier View Post
    The double negative in this sentence killed my brain but I think I finally got it. So the goal is to make sure Meta is always available so that when the trinket procs you can pop into meta to refresh doom and corruption for the 100% crit correct?
    Yes, that's the idea. Seems like quite a headache on top of dealing with all the other things that come with Demo, pet management, mana/Fury management, MC procs, HoG, plus whatever's going on in the actual encounter.

    I might actually avoid this trinket for a while...

  5. #385
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    "**Hand of Guldan- The 'correct' way to use Hand of Gul'dan is to wait until there is less then 6s until you get 2 charges of HoG. You then want to use one charge, cast a few spells, and then clip shadowflame right before it runs out so you have ~5s of a one stack shadowflame, then 6s of a 2 stack
    shadowflame."

    i don't get the explanation, is there a Weak aura or something whihc help this management ?

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by sster View Post
    "**Hand of Guldan- The 'correct' way to use Hand of Gul'dan is to wait until there is less then 6s until you get 2 charges of HoG. You then want to use one charge, cast a few spells, and then clip shadowflame right before it runs out so you have ~5s of a one stack shadowflame, then 6s of a 2 stack
    shadowflame."

    i don't get the explanation, is there a Weak aura or something whihc help this management ?
    Hand of Gul'dan has two charges. That means if you have two charges up you can cast the spell two times in a row.

    The spell applies a 6 second DoT when it lands. This DoT can stack up to two times.

    You cast it once, you wait 4 seconds, then cast it again, then switch into Meta.

    This means that you get 5 seconds of a 1 stack Shadowflame, and then 6 seconds of a 2 stack Shadowflame buffed by Metamorphosis.
    Last edited by EvreliaGaming; 2013-03-04 at 01:06 PM.

  7. #387
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    got it thx!

  8. #388
    Mechagnome
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    So is everyone's first Shado-Pan friendly rep purchase going to be the Volatile Talisman? Looks like a clear choice to me given we should be able to get to friendly in the first week.
    A living Warlock = a dead everyone else

  9. #389
    Keyboard Turner
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    Sorry if this is supposed to be obvious >_>, but since ToT bosses have been altered to allow pets to benefit from the dmg% buffs, does that affect the Grimoire of Service pets as well, or just main pets only?

  10. #390
    Quote Originally Posted by Scathbais View Post
    So is everyone's first Shado-Pan friendly rep purchase going to be the Volatile Talisman? Looks like a clear choice to me given we should be able to get to friendly in the first week.
    There's a thread specifically about how we would be spending Valor at the start of 5.2. I think it in part depends on what you currently have and what upgrades are best.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...rchases-of-5-2

  11. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by MordorFires View Post
    There's a thread specifically about how we would be spending Valor at the start of 5.2. I think it in part depends on what you currently have and what upgrades are best.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...rchases-of-5-2
    Yeah, I know. just excited for the patch and the trinket is great for demo
    A living Warlock = a dead everyone else

  12. #392
    I have been Affliction since launch and quite frankly, it is my favorite spec of all time. However, I want a change of pace and Demonology this upcoming patch seems like a good start. With that being said, I have one question, with the T14 4 piece, is it worth postponing DS for the many cooldowns we have? Other than the pull, imps and GoServ always seem to be 20 seconds plus from DS. Waiting 20 seconds plus, seems way too much to wait and many times I find myself with trinkets still on CD and imps and GoServ as well. In this case I do wait up to 30 seconds because nothing is up.

  13. #393
    This is a nooblight question, and I know it. I've been through the thread, and others, but find myself a little unsure, so here I come asking...

    I am not at my best in melee range. But I know that sometimes it pays off quite a lot. What I'm curious about with demonology is what rules of thumb there are for when I should be zipping in, either in metamorphosis form or out, and when I'm find back at casting range. Brother, can you spare a rule?

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Elanas View Post
    This is a nooblight question, and I know it. I've been through the thread, and others, but find myself a little unsure, so here I come asking...

    I am not at my best in melee range. But I know that sometimes it pays off quite a lot. What I'm curious about with demonology is what rules of thumb there are for when I should be zipping in, either in metamorphosis form or out, and when I'm find back at casting range. Brother, can you spare a rule?
    AFAIK, there's no longer a benefit to being at melee range unless you're AoEing a pack and aren't using Mannoroth's Fury, in which case you need to be in Hellfire/Immo Aura range. We used to benefit marginally from using Shadowflame rotationally, back when it was a spell (probably what I miss the most from Cata locks is that spell visual), which was a melee range spell.

  15. #395
    OK, thank you! I haven't done much with Mannoroth's Fury. Am I missing things?

  16. #396
    What do you guys think about what trinkets will be best? I know the simcraft rankings are on the front page but from my experience simcraft isnt always so reliable
    It seems that even though the valor trinket is pretty high on the list it doesn't look all that great to me, given the 10 sec and 45 sec icd really dont match well with dark soul, and is wushoolay's final choice really that bad?
    I can definitely see the benefit in using cha-ye's essence of brilliance and unerring vision of lei-shen together, im just wondering for the time until i can get those two

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Ciani View Post
    I have been Affliction since launch and quite frankly, it is my favorite spec of all time. However, I want a change of pace and Demonology this upcoming patch seems like a good start. With that being said, I have one question, with the T14 4 piece, is it worth postponing DS for the many cooldowns we have? Other than the pull, imps and GoServ always seem to be 20 seconds plus from DS. Waiting 20 seconds plus, seems way too much to wait and many times I find myself with trinkets still on CD and imps and GoServ as well. In this case I do wait up to 30 seconds because nothing is up.
    I have this exact same question. Dark Soul comes off cool down every 1:20...but lifeblood/Imp Swarm/Grim: Serv are all 2 min cooldowns (Imp swarm is a bit faster due to haste). I'm unfortunately not proficient enough at simcraft to figure out what the best approach is...any help would be great.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by Necropotence View Post
    I have this exact same question. Dark Soul comes off cool down every 1:20...but lifeblood/Imp Swarm/Grim: Serv are all 2 min cooldowns (Imp swarm is a bit faster due to haste). I'm unfortunately not proficient enough at simcraft to figure out what the best approach is...any help would be great.
    couple of upgrades and you will be replacing that 4p bonus with higher ilvl items so all will return to normal.
    currently i only wait for imp swarm, but it all depends on how far the swarm might be from dark soul cd.

  19. #399
    Quote Originally Posted by Elanas View Post
    OK, thank you! I haven't done much with Mannoroth's Fury. Am I missing things?
    What you're missing by not taking Mannoroth's Fury is... *drumroll*... The coolest pulsing fire of death and doom ever seen!

    No but really, it makes you're Immolation Aura 500% bigger, and with that huge circle of fire around you, you can stand a bit further behind while still burning your enemies to ashes while, preferably, laughing.

    It also makes some other cool spells 500% bigger, like Carrion Swarm!

  20. #400
    Field Marshal Undercroft's Avatar
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    MF also boosts hand of gul'dan splash range too. In fact i've gotten to used to having MF all the time that i'm not used to the puny range of hellfire when i have to swap out for AV on some fights.
    Imperial Vizier Zor'lok at 20% or lower? Check.
    Shadowpriest currently under mind control? Check.
    Havoc off cooldown and three burning embers ready? Check.
    Hilarious friendly kill performed by the Warlock? Check.

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