1. #1081
    I'm just poking my head in to tell people who are making the jump from Destro or Affliction to go read the first post in this thread rather than making wild and ridiculous claims about Doom not scaling with Haste, or refreshing Doom incorrectly. Zinnin has done a pretty good job of keeping the first post up to date with relevant information, and spending 10 minutes reading it will get you up to speed so you don't end up looking silly.

  2. #1082
    New to demo, have legendary Meta, UVLS and Hydra trinkets (525 ilvl) but have some noob 101 questions about demo if anyone can help my poop demo dps. All questions below are in a single target situation, which once I get that down I'll focus on AOE

    1) When I sim my character or look at the static sims on simulationcraft.org, I see imp swarm as doing about 25% of damage done. When I practice my rotations I am not getting anywhere near that amount. What is the easiest way to optimize imp swam/imp swarm damage.

    2) As I understand it, you can have at most 6 imps out at one time, but I have seen videos where someone will have much much more than 6 imps out. How is this achieved?

    3) On simulationcraft, I see damage sources broken out into soul fire and soul fire meta (which I assume is soulfire during metamorphasis which combine to like 30 percent damage done. Similiar to question one, what is the best way to optimize the amount of procs you get to spam soulfire? I do not seem to get anywhere near the procs needed to do this much damage, and considering the sim's show ~15 percent damage done by touch of chaos which means even less time to soulfires.

    4) On single target, not getting enough uptime in Meta to match the sims. What are a few keys to maximizing fury generation that you focus on.

  3. #1083
    Blademaster Prisefighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delvaz View Post
    New to demo, have legendary Meta, UVLS and Hydra trinkets (525 ilvl) but have some noob 101 questions about demo if anyone can help my poop demo dps. All questions below are in a single target situation, which once I get that down I'll focus on AOE

    1) When I sim my character or look at the static sims on simulationcraft.org, I see imp swarm as doing about 25% of damage done. When I practice my rotations I am not getting anywhere near that amount. What is the easiest way to optimize imp swam/imp swarm damage.

    2) As I understand it, you can have at most 6 imps out at one time, but I have seen videos where someone will have much much more than 6 imps out. How is this achieved?

    3) On simulationcraft, I see damage sources broken out into soul fire and soul fire meta (which I assume is soulfire during metamorphasis which combine to like 30 percent damage done. Similiar to question one, what is the best way to optimize the amount of procs you get to spam soulfire? I do not seem to get anywhere near the procs needed to do this much damage, and considering the sim's show ~15 percent damage done by touch of chaos which means even less time to soulfires.

    4) On single target, not getting enough uptime in Meta to match the sims. What are a few keys to maximizing fury generation that you focus on.
    Almost all of this is covered in the OP. Go to page 1. Read.

    Regarding your imps, you can actually have an absurb amount out - I think Teye has the youtube video with the low level dungeon where he has 9001 imps out? Doom crits will spawn a wild imp, so when UVLS is up you should INSTANTLY go Meta form and get Doom up x2 on single target, and on multi-target get Doom out on as many targets as possible. Now everytime that Doom crits you spawn an imp.

  4. #1084
    Quote Originally Posted by Prisefighter View Post
    I think Teye has the youtube video with the low level dungeon where he has 9001 imps out?
    I have like 50 in mine, Alarinth did it naked with a healer and got over 300. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppHOvaZeT9w
    Last edited by Teye; 2013-05-10 at 07:57 PM.

  5. #1085
    well delvaz, its been wide established that APL of simcraft is suboptimal for demo so take what simcraft tells you with a grain of salt.

    1) when you use imp swarm remember that its cooldown is affect by haste, so usingg it with mete gem proc, BL and your own haste will great reduce the cd of it, allowing you to have a much higher uptime on it, so it sounds like you havent utilized your haste procs well enough.

    2) you passive ability known as wild imps can only generate a certain amount of wild imps since it has an icd however the reason why you see some ppl with 10-15 wild imps up is bcoz of the interactions between Doom and UVLS, as each doom crit generates a wild imp that isnt affected by the icd of your wild imp passive ability, as doom distinctively says each time doom procs.

    3)this part im not too sure off tbh, from what ive read its worth it to cast soul fire in meta when you have DS up or 1 or more int procs but this mmight have changed.

    4) im assuming you have 2pc and 4pc t15 as that increases fury generation and reduces fury consumptions with DS popped, other than that increasing your imp regeneration will also increase your meta up time as they generate fury for you too.

  6. #1086
    As I was told to keep this in here, i'll re...post my question/thread

    /castsequence reset=target Grimoire: Felguard, Summon Doomguard, Corruption, Hand of Gul'dan, Imp Swarm, Hand of Gul'dan, Dark Soul: Knowledge, Metamorphosis, Doom, Doom

    Is the macro ive been seeing around. I'm not all to familiar with opening macro's as I've usually just done everything by hand.

    issue is, I'm not sure exactly how to use this macro. I've tried casting it, but it only cast what seems to be part of it. It never activates Meta, and I'm not entirely sure what the double doom is for or how it works.

    Anyone have some explanations for me? Thank you so much

    (And I thought Imp Swarm was a DPS loss because then it wouldn't be spawning imps during dooms crits?)

  7. #1087
    Moderator Alarinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomial17 View Post
    As I was told to keep this in here, i'll re...post my question/thread

    /castsequence reset=target Grimoire: Felguard, Summon Doomguard, Corruption, Hand of Gul'dan, Imp Swarm, Hand of Gul'dan, Dark Soul: Knowledge, Metamorphosis, Doom, Doom

    Is the macro ive been seeing around. I'm not all to familiar with opening macro's as I've usually just done everything by hand.

    issue is, I'm not sure exactly how to use this macro. I've tried casting it, but it only cast what seems to be part of it. It never activates Meta, and I'm not entirely sure what the double doom is for or how it works.

    Anyone have some explanations for me? Thank you so much

    (And I thought Imp Swarm was a DPS loss because then it wouldn't be spawning imps during dooms crits?)
    Personally I elected to remove the Imp Swarm from the macro, and make sure I have complete visual access to all my potential haste buffs and the ones active, so that I know when / when not to cast imp swarm, because I found that even with this macro I wasn't always able to catch all of my haste buffs with the Imp Swarm. I also followed up with a "pre-emptive" cooldown tracker for Imp Swarm that displays the cooldown it would invoke if I click it there and then. This is dynamic, and reflects changes to haste and is color coded as well, leaving you a fairly obvious visual cue for when to cast Imp Swarm.
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  8. #1088
    Alright, so for the macro, when do you stop spamming it? After Doom's been cast? And what is this whole double doom thing I keep hearing of.

  9. #1089
    Moderator Alarinth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nomial17 View Post
    Alright, so for the macro, when do you stop spamming it? After Doom's been cast? And what is this whole double doom thing I keep hearing of.
    I stop spamming the macro as soon as the second doom has been cast. The reason you wanna apply two straight in a row is because this is the point of the fight where the highest amount of your active procs will line up, and most likely be the point where you have the highest amount of haste as well as an UVLS proc active. For that reason, you'll get imps at the highest interval with doom dealing the most damage. It just makes sense to prolong it as long as you can.
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  10. #1090
    Is there a Fight Specific guide up yet for Demo? I cannot find it. o.O I am starting ToT normals tonight as Demo and would love some tips for fighting the first 5 or so bosses. Here is my armory http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...yrene/advanced

    For example, on Jin'Rok, Should I be saving my Dark Soul for when the pools form? Or use it off cooldown?

    On Horridon, do I keep Horridon dotted with Corruption/Doom and also have those dots on all adds and attempt to keep them up?

    Same goes for Council? Keep Coruption/Doom on all targets? When I was doing LFR on this fight, it seemed like trying to keep Corruption up on all targets was both tough and a dps loss since the damage can be quite low and I have not mastered keeping dots up permanently with the dots being buffed with Dark Soul etc etc.

    Any more tips on bosses would be lovely! And if there is a Boss Guide somewhere specifically for Demo, I would love a link! As I have no time today to really go searching for one. Thanks!

  11. #1091
    I have a question regarding 4pcT14 and Imp Swarm and Dark Soul usage. Should I be holding off on DS until Imp Swarm is off cooldown or just use them when they come off cooldown?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alarinth View Post
    Personally I elected to remove the Imp Swarm from the macro, and make sure I have complete visual access to all my potential haste buffs and the ones active, so that I know when / when not to cast imp swarm, because I found that even with this macro I wasn't always able to catch all of my haste buffs with the Imp Swarm. I also followed up with a "pre-emptive" cooldown tracker for Imp Swarm that displays the cooldown it would invoke if I click it there and then. This is dynamic, and reflects changes to haste and is color coded as well, leaving you a fairly obvious visual cue for when to cast Imp Swarm.
    Do you have a link to the cooldown tracker for Imp Swarm?
    Last edited by Visros; 2013-05-11 at 02:13 AM.

  12. #1092
    Quote Originally Posted by Vlarkin View Post
    Is there a Fight Specific guide up yet for Demo? I cannot find it. o.O I am starting ToT normals tonight as Demo and would love some tips for fighting the first 5 or so bosses.

    For example, on Jin'Rok, Should I be saving my Dark Soul for when the pools form? Or use it off cooldown?

    On Horridon, do I keep Horridon dotted with Corruption/Doom and also have those dots on all adds and attempt to keep them up?

    Same goes for Council? Keep Coruption/Doom on all targets? When I was doing LFR on this fight, it seemed like trying to keep Corruption up on all targets was both tough and a dps loss since the damage can be quite low and I have not mastered keeping dots up permanently with the dots being buffed with Dark Soul etc etc.

    Any more tips on bosses would be lovely! And if there is a Boss Guide somewhere specifically for Demo, I would love a link! As I have no time today to really go searching for one. Thanks!
    You can always try things out and see what works best for you and your dps. Also how much your group are depending on the dps on a specific point. If you read some guides they'll often tell you when to use your cds and if you should multidot, no matter what spec. And it just requires a bit of being aware. You can multidot every council member, but if your dps can't dps the possessed one fast enough before it reach max energy, maybe focusing single target is better (even though you get more fury from multidotting which would lead to more dps).

    You do however not really look too ready for ToT. THAT trinket, lol! Get the darkmoon one at least. :-)

  13. #1093
    Quote Originally Posted by Ahalek View Post
    You can always try things out and see what works best for you and your dps. Also how much your group are depending on the dps on a specific point. If you read some guides they'll often tell you when to use your cds and if you should multidot, no matter what spec. And it just requires a bit of being aware. You can multidot every council member, but if your dps can't dps the possessed one fast enough before it reach max energy, maybe focusing single target is better (even though you get more fury from multidotting which would lead to more dps).

    You do however not really look too ready for ToT. THAT trinket, lol! Get the darkmoon one at least. :-)
    Thanks for the answer. LOL look again. Idk why people kept telling me I was not ready for ToT.. I did just fine in the pug I did earlier tonight -.- and got 3 pieces of gear lol.

  14. #1094
    Quote Originally Posted by Vlarkin View Post
    Thanks for the answer. LOL look again. Idk why people kept telling me I was not ready for ToT.. I did just fine in the pug I did earlier tonight -.- and got 3 pieces of gear lol.
    Because ilvl 492 sounds a bit low. Having a green trinket as well. What was your dps like then?

  15. #1095
    Stood in the Fire Bloodfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vlarkin View Post
    Is there a Fight Specific guide up yet for Demo? I cannot find it. o.O I am starting ToT normals tonight as Demo and would love some tips for fighting the first 5 or so bosses. Here is my armory http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...yrene/advanced

    For example, on Jin'Rok, Should I be saving my Dark Soul for when the pools form? Or use it off cooldown?

    On Horridon, do I keep Horridon dotted with Corruption/Doom and also have those dots on all adds and attempt to keep them up?

    Same goes for Council? Keep Coruption/Doom on all targets? When I was doing LFR on this fight, it seemed like trying to keep Corruption up on all targets was both tough and a dps loss since the damage can be quite low and I have not mastered keeping dots up permanently with the dots being buffed with Dark Soul etc etc.

    Any more tips on bosses would be lovely! And if there is a Boss Guide somewhere specifically for Demo, I would love a link! As I have no time today to really go searching for one. Thanks!
    Honestly, I don't see reason going demo on horridon. Your DPS will be high, problem is that mostly you'll simply end up having more than 50 - 70% damage on boss which should be wasted on adds instead.
    I hate WoL because number bashers ruin normal gameplay when the RL starts stinking at pointing "Your damage is too low".
    PFF.
    Top 10 of those logs are just sitting on boss most of the time.

  16. #1096
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    Honestly, I don't see reason going demo on horridon. Your DPS will be high, problem is that mostly you'll simply end up having more than 50 - 70% damage on boss which should be wasted on adds instead.
    I hate WoL because number bashers ruin normal gameplay when the RL starts stinking at pointing "Your damage is too low".
    PFF.
    Top 10 of those logs are just sitting on boss most of the time.
    Why does it matter? If I put Doom up on Horridon, especially with trinket, I get more wild imps to dps down adds faster. If I add a corruption every now and then I also get more fury. Most people in my group are having 50-70% damage on Horridon anyway, melee as ranged. It's just more dps overall, not sitting on boss most of the times.

  17. #1097
    Stood in the Fire Bloodfire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahalek View Post
    Why does it matter? If I put Doom up on Horridon, especially with trinket, I get more wild imps to dps down adds faster. If I add a corruption every now and then I also get more fury. Most people in my group are having 50-70% damage on Horridon anyway, melee as ranged. It's just more dps overall, not sitting on boss most of the times.
    I'm comparing damage on Heroic Horridon with another lock who is Demo. Taking off the damage on Horridon I'm like 1,5 - 2M away from him on adds.
    That's the point.
    If your raid has enough aoe damage on adds be welcome to play demo, but IMO, this boss is simply made for destruction.

  18. #1098
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    I'm comparing damage on Heroic Horridon with another lock who is Demo. Taking off the damage on Horridon I'm like 1,5 - 2M away from him on adds.
    That's the point.
    If your raid has enough aoe damage on adds be welcome to play demo, but IMO, this boss is simply made for destruction.
    Sorry, but the Demonology Warlock you're talking about isn't nearly as good as some of the players you're addressing on this board. One bad player does not make Demonology bad for that fight.

  19. #1099
    Quote Originally Posted by Bloodfire View Post
    I'm comparing damage on Heroic Horridon with another lock who is Demo. Taking off the damage on Horridon I'm like 1,5 - 2M away from him on adds.
    That's the point.
    If your raid has enough aoe damage on adds be welcome to play demo, but IMO, this boss is simply made for destruction.
    It's pretty nice of Affliction too, since you have infinite shards to SB:SS onto everything. Demo wouldn't be my default choice for the fight, but I see no reason for it to perform particularly badly; I think what you're looking at for the Destro locks is probably overdamage from Shadowburn, of which there'll be a lot.

  20. #1100
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    It's pretty nice of Affliction too, since you have infinite shards to SB:SS onto everything. Demo wouldn't be my default choice for the fight, but I see no reason for it to perform particularly badly; I think what you're looking at for the Destro locks is probably overdamage from Shadowburn, of which there'll be a lot.
    Destro doesn't really have much overkill with Shadowburn. Especially now that you don't have to actually get the KB to get an ember for free.

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