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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    I'm a bit confused... every time I run simcraft after reforging something the stat priorities change drastically. I'm having a really hard time figuring out how I should set myself up.

    I was originally using a full Mastery build but then I ran a sim and it said Haste was far superior, so I reforged to loads of Haste. The next sim said Crit was much better, so I replaced some of that Haste with Crit. Next sim said Mastery was much better, so I reforged into a little Mastery. Now the most recent sim is again saying Haste is far superior to both..

    I'm currently ilv 493, at 3050 haste, 16% crit and 16% mastery and afraid to touch anything

    Testing on training dummies at least they all seem to give pretty much the same DPS, but the highest was using Haste > Crit > Mastery. Should I just stick with that?

    Do not use Simcraft for Demonology stat weights. You will not get accurate results as Mastery is severely undervalued due to a confirmed bug. Go for Haste to 3036, then go Mastery>Crit>Haste.

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Do not use Simcraft for Demonology stat weights. You will not get accurate results as Mastery is severely undervalued due to a confirmed bug. Go for Haste to 3036, then go Mastery>Crit>Haste.
    That bug (Shadowflame gaining Meta buff) against single target is relatively minor, and under real circumstances isn't always exploitable. Saying it's "severely" undervalued is therefore a very bold statement.

  3. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    That bug (Shadowflame gaining Meta buff) against single target is relatively minor, and under real circumstances isn't always exploitable. Saying it's "severely" undervalued is therefore a very bold statement.
    Go find some good Demonology logs (where the Warlock is weaving into Meta for every HoG) and look at the difference in Shadowflame damage between that and Simcraft. The difference is NOT small.

    Hint: It goes from 4% of your damage done to 12%. That's way more than you think it is.
    Last edited by Teye; 2013-01-30 at 12:17 PM.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Go find some good Demonology logs (where the Warlock is weaving into Meta for every HoG) and look at the difference in Shadowflame damage between that and Simcraft. The difference is NOT small.

    Hint: It goes from 4% of your damage done to 12%. That's way more than you think it is.
    Not sure how increasing fewer than half your SF ticks' damage by 2/3 triples the overall output of a spell. Unless the bug is more severe and I'm misunderstanding it.

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    Not sure how increasing fewer than half your SF ticks' damage by 2/3 triples the overall output of a spell. Unless the bug is more severe and I'm misunderstanding it.

    You're forgetting about Dark Soul. With the 4 set, 3 Shadowflames out of every 80 seconds are buffed by it. The first 2 are double stacked, and the 3rd is 15 seconds later.

    Also, something going from 4% of your damage done to 12% doesn't mean it was tripled. That's not how percentages work.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Your group's dps must be REALLY low if that's the case. Make sure the players with low AoE (Arcane Mages) are single targeting Menders
    It's more likely just a strat difference. My DS comes back up again before our first Recklessness; we don't care about focusing any group of adds and like many other guilds only get 3 Recklessnesses (4:30 kill time).

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 09:14 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Also, something going from 4% of your damage done to 12% doesn't mean it was tripled. That's not how percentages work.
    If that's the case then just do a per tick comparison...
    http://darkcontent.wordpress.com/ - blog (updated Oct. 8, 2013). Latest post: T16H Affliction Trinket Rankings in Combination, done in SimC 540-4.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustjive View Post
    If that's the case then just do a per tick comparison...


    I'm not the one doubting the issue...

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    You're forgetting about Dark Soul. With the 4 set, 3 Shadowflames out of every 80 seconds are buffed by it. The first 2 are double stacked, and the 3rd is 15 seconds later.

    Also, something going from 4% of your damage done to 12% doesn't mean it was tripled. That's not how percentages work.
    I'm not forgetting DS, it's there regardless of whether you can exploit the bug or not.

    And no, you're right, that's not how percentages work. If you merely tripled it's output, it would only account for 11.111% of your damage since increasing it's output increases your total as well.

    I'm willing to accept I'm missing something in my understanding of a bug, but so far as I know you can only buff 7 of every 13 ticks with Meta.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    regardless of whether you can exploit the bug or not.

    As soon as you called it a bug, I decided I was done with this conversation.

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Teye View Post
    Was talking about Heroic, and you need to be in melee for Void Ray, not for Hellfire. The question was "can I AoE safely from Melee". The answer is yes, I just gave him some extra advice regarding the fight.
    How can a warlock be in melee in HC if Wind bomb can target warlocks w/e they are same thing that happens in FL with majordomo.

    In theory we can but creates strain on the melee camp
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellfury View Post
    How can a warlock be in melee in HC if Wind bomb can target warlocks w/e they are same thing that happens in FL with majordomo.

    In theory we can but creates strain on the melee camp
    You can't, as I said, you can stay in Melee untill the first wind bomb comes out then stay at range, With mammoths fury you can Shadowflame weaving with Immo Aura at good range, but forget Void ray otherwise you'll fuck Melee and they won't be happy having to keep moving the boss becasue you dropped one in there or the otherside.

    ---------- Post added 2013-01-30 at 08:21 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I'm willing to accept I'm missing something in my understanding of a bug, but so far as I know you can only buff 7 of every 13 ticks with Meta.
    It's not a bug, Shadowflame has a travel time, if you go into Meta early it gets it's bonus as well. From the start you should have the double stack meta charged, then you pop in and out till your out of fury, when your out of fury you wait for the two stack to charge it again.

    Simple test go to target dummy, cast two shadowflames and see the damage. then cast on refresh at 2 secs left with a Meta charged shadowflame, unbuffed, 1 two stack meta charged shadowflame dot did 98k more then the other for me, now imagine raidbuffed, flasked, it hits for alot more, especially when there are adds, As Teye said, it's extremly undervalued.

  12. #112
    Isn't void ray 20y range? Though I suppose that's pretty close too if you want to be sure to hit all, meh.
    Last edited by Micke; 2013-01-30 at 08:29 PM.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micke View Post
    Isn't void ray 20y range? Though I suppose that's pretty close too if you want to be sure to hit all, meh.
    Yes, it's plenty if you're careful. I've been doing void ray after wind bombs go out since we started doing the fight.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by lichanator View Post
    It's not a bug, Shadowflame has a travel time, if you go into Meta early it gets it's bonus as well. From the start you should have the double stack meta charged, then you pop in and out till your out of fury, when your out of fury you wait for the two stack to charge it again.

    Simple test go to target dummy, cast two shadowflames and see the damage. then cast on refresh at 2 secs left with a Meta charged shadowflame, unbuffed, 1 two stack meta charged shadowflame dot did 98k more then the other for me, now imagine raidbuffed, flasked, it hits for alot more, especially when there are adds, As Teye said, it's extremly undervalued.
    I know how it works and I know that it works, I do not however believe it's an intended mechanic around which we're balanced, and unintended mechanics are generally regarded as bugs. But if it makes you happier, call it clever use of game mechanics, I don't really care, it's just splitting hairs over a minor DPS buff when you're talking about single target output.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I know how it works and I know that it works, I do not however believe it's an intended mechanic around which we're balanced, and unintended mechanics are generally regarded as bugs. But if it makes you happier, call it clever use of game mechanics, I don't really care, it's just splitting hairs over a minor DPS buff when you're talking about single target output.
    It's a pretty big buff, and to be frank, I'd rather they removed the charges from HOG altogether (and perhaps either buffed the ability or moved damage elsewhere).

    Stance dancing was stupid before the Meta/HOG weaving, it's even stupider with it. Sniping the last Shadowflame charge and gaming the travel time so to max both Shadowflame damage and MC charges is stupid.

    But this belongs in the 5.2 thread.

  16. #116
    I would like to state that i went in a different direction in terms of gems and made my own rotation. I am gemming straight up mastery 320 yellow gems n artfuls and sensei's wild jade and hold a lot of rankings in 502 ilvl xD, soooooooooo it might come down to play style^-^ because personally i feel as 160 int gems is a dps lost with my toon. I have tested this on multiple fights such as sha and protectors ^-^ my toon is dreadexpanse

    -your guys theory craft says int>mastery>crit>haste
    -mine mastery>int>crit>haste, but again it might be my play style
    Last edited by nightrianna; 2013-01-31 at 12:40 AM.

  17. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspark View Post
    It's a pretty big buff, and to be frank, I'd rather they removed the charges from HOG altogether (and perhaps either buffed the ability or moved damage elsewhere).

    Stance dancing was stupid before the Meta/HOG weaving, it's even stupider with it. Sniping the last Shadowflame charge and gaming the travel time so to max both Shadowflame damage and MC charges is stupid.

    But this belongs in the 5.2 thread.
    The HoG weaving is for me something that just naturally happens anyway to get a decent duration of uptime on Meta with cooldowns, so it's not really that complicated. I really just don't see from the maths how it offers anything like the increase Teye suggests, or that it's impact is therefore sufficient to so completely overrule Simcraft for calculating stat weights. That he takes an aggressive tone and refuses to offer any evidence to the contrary because I regard it as a bug rather than an intended mechanic, in order to divert the conversation does absolutely nothing to convince me otherwise.

  18. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    or that it's impact is therefore sufficient to so completely overrule Simcraft for calculating stat weights.
    Even if it is not enough to completely overrule simcraft's stat weights, there are so many things wrong with simcraft currently that stat weights should be either very carefully analyzed of ignored alltogether.

  19. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Jessicka View Post
    I'm willing to accept I'm missing something in my understanding of a bug, but so far as I know you can only buff 7 of every 13 ticks with Meta.
    but those 7 ticks are doing x2 dmg

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by kandalanu View Post
    but those 7 ticks are doing x2 dmg
    They do, but they'd be doing that anyway.

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