1. #2061
    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo1444 View Post
    I indeed have normal TF UVLS 2/2 but thought that it wasn't enough to cut it. It's excellent news if I can still play Demo as MS comes 5.4.

    Am I assuming wrong that once I'll replace it with 5.4 trinkets the stat will be changed to a mastery/crit build?

    On another note, I found quite worrying infos on the 5.4 Discussion Thread on how Demo seems to perform. Some says (page 188 onwards) it is actually the worst of the specs and that Affli wins on everything hands down. I was going by the assumption (which might be wrong ofc) that even if Affli is ahead, Demo is close enough. Any input about this from those who actually tested it?
    People who don't have any idea on how to REALLY play demo will often say that Affli is the best. The difference between top demo players and mid-level demo players, vs. top affli players and mid-level affli players is MUCH larger.

    Play what you want. If you're better at demo, drive it like you stole it. If not, check out affli. I think i'm #15 on Pro Raiders (inb4 giant epeens arrive) for US 10 man demo, but I'll still be popping into affli for a few fights. It should be the same in the reverse situation as well.

  2. #2062
    Thanks for the reply. Reading your words made me stress a bit less about this spec choice. I am definately not a top Demo player but I consider myself above the mid-level quite a bit.

    And yeah I will be swapping to Affli whenever the fight really requires me to do it.

    On that note do you have any input about what spec (between Demo or Affli) for each fight in NM SoO? I know Evrelia posted about it but I think that's about HCs, isn't it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I was thinking to go by this for NM:
    Immerseus - possibly Demo, I am in two minds about this
    Protectors - possibly Demo, Affli only in case of dire need
    Norushen - can't decide
    Sha of Pride - Demo
    Galakras - Demo
    Iron Jaggernaut - possibly Demo, Affli otherwise
    Dark Shamans - Demo
    Nazgrim - possibly Demo, Affli otherwise
    Malkorok - Affli
    Spoils - Demo
    Thok - not decided
    Sigecrafter - not decided
    Klaxxi - not decided
    Garrosh - Demo

    But yeah I guess what I am looking for is trying to figure out which fight I really have to go Affli because Demo just has no chance.

  3. #2063
    Fluffy Kitten Zinnin's Avatar
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    Added a 5.4 trinket list and tweaked the guide a little in preparation for 5.4

    In case people don't read the warning in the OP I will say it again here: Black Blood of Yshaarj is NOT modeled right, so don't discount it 100% quite yet.

  4. #2064
    with that list in mind for trinkets zinnin, you're saying to keep UVLS and not potentially go down the crit heavy route?

    not that i mind this at all if it works out, will fit in nicely with a affliction mastery/haste build.

    PS : also realize that things are not modeled right, just a general feeling for our stat weights is what im after.
    Last edited by Rasukan; 2013-09-08 at 01:08 AM.
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  5. #2065
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasukan View Post
    with that list in mind for trinkets zinnin, you're saying to keep UVLS and not potentially go down the crit heavy route?

    not that i mind this at all if it works out, will fit in nicely with a affliction mastery/haste build.
    With the change to rPPM on PTR where it has a higher chance to proc on pull it has become pretty consistent. At this point I don't really think it has a place, however I do think there are a few fights where UVLS won't have a place but those situations aren't simmed easily so people might have to use their brain a bit.

  6. #2066
    Any numbers you're getting for demo specifically are very off. I haven't updated the APL for demonology in months, mine is miles ahead of where the old one is. I'm going to attempt to accomplish the zillion things I need to put in this weekend so people don't rage this tuesday :3. Putting updating the APL near the top of the list along with the mostly functioning set bonuses.

  7. #2067
    Quote Originally Posted by gahddo View Post
    Any numbers you're getting for demo specifically are very off. I haven't updated the APL for demonology in months, mine is miles ahead of where the old one is. I'm going to attempt to accomplish the zillion things I need to put in this weekend so people don't rage this tuesday :3. Putting updating the APL near the top of the list along with the mostly functioning set bonuses.
    Thanks gahddo. Appreciate the effort.

  8. #2068
    I decided to make it easy for me and just COMPLETELY separate the unerring/normal action lists instead of trying to weave lines in and out...I should have the demo/destro APL updates tonight. Also going to add better trinket usage to the APL.

    -update- Demo single target apl has been updated fully in the svn, won't be in the gui until the next release but it works for CLI. Working on updating all the profiles next...
    Last edited by gahddo; 2013-09-08 at 04:57 AM.

  9. #2069
    Fluffy Kitten Zinnin's Avatar
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    If the new profiles are available ill download new svn mmm and run new lists tonight. Sorry for the random letters. Phone keybpard is crap.
    l

  10. #2070
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    If the new profiles are available ill download new svn mmm and run new lists tonight. Sorry for the random letters. Phone keybpard is crap.
    l
    The only thing I still need to check with for demo is reacting to trinkets better, outside of the changes I need to put in come live patch tuesday.

  11. #2071
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazda View Post
    People who don't have any idea on how to REALLY play demo will often say that Affli is the best. The difference between top demo players and mid-level demo players, vs. top affli players and mid-level affli players is MUCH larger.

    Play what you want. If you're better at demo, drive it like you stole it. If not, check out affli. I think i'm #15 on Pro Raiders (inb4 giant epeens arrive) for US 10 man demo
    Im #3 Aff lock US lets be BFF's <3


    OT: The Difference between Mid tier Demo Players and Top demo players compared to affy mid players and top players isnt that different tbh. If anything its harder to do well as affliction then as demo due to the skill cap being higher (having to watch more dots, procs, power gains for reapplying dots, etc) where as all demo really has to worry about is Dooming correctly when UVLS procs, HoG weaving and using Imp Swarm wisely.[/QUOTE]



    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo1444 View Post
    Thanks for the reply. Reading your words made me stress a bit less about this spec choice. I am definately not a top Demo player but I consider myself above the mid-level quite a bit.

    And yeah I will be swapping to Affli whenever the fight really requires me to do it.

    On that note do you have any input about what spec (between Demo or Affli) for each fight in NM SoO? I know Evrelia posted about it but I think that's about HCs, isn't it?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I was thinking to go by this for NM:
    Protectors - possibly Demo, Affli only in case of dire need
    Demo seemed pretty strong on protectors if UVLS decided to proc, quite a few attempts I wouldn't get reliable procs though. Affy might be better, maybe demo depending on how the heavy crit setup turns out to be.

  12. #2072
    Quote Originally Posted by icecoldsir View Post
    Im #3 Aff lock US lets be BFF's <3


    OT: The Difference between Mid tier Demo Players and Top demo players compared to affy mid players and top players isnt that different tbh. If anything its harder to do well as affliction then as demo due to the skill cap being higher (having to watch more dots, procs, power gains for reapplying dots, etc) where as all demo really has to worry about is Dooming correctly when UVLS procs, HoG weaving and using Imp Swarm wisely.





    Demo seemed pretty strong on protectors if UVLS decided to proc, quite a few attempts I wouldn't get reliable procs though. Affy might be better, maybe demo depending on how the heavy crit setup turns out to be.
    Typically demo is thought of as harder because of different fillers, and using fury wisely. Aff is pretty faceroll, tbh. I haven't played affliction on live in ages, randomly whipped it out last week, and got rank 5 on Iron Qon. Not a difficult spec.

  13. #2073
    Quote Originally Posted by icecoldsir View Post
    Im #3 Aff lock US lets be BFF's <3


    OT: The Difference between Mid tier Demo Players and Top demo players compared to affy mid players and top players isnt that different tbh. If anything its harder to do well as affliction then as demo due to the skill cap being higher (having to watch more dots, procs, power gains for reapplying dots, etc) where as all demo really has to worry about is Dooming correctly when UVLS procs, HoG weaving and using Imp Swarm wisely.

    I honestly have nothing against you, man. But, if you're the type of person who says "All demo really has to worry about is Dooming correctly when UVLS procs, HoG weaving and using Imp Swarm wisely." then you really don't understand the spec. I've said it on these forums before, and I'll say it again. Without question, Demonology is THE most versatile, dynamic, and subtly complicated spec in the game. (obviously my opinion, but I find that many high level players agree.) The only thing I've found that comes close in terms of complexity is high skill feral druid.

  14. #2074
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    Demo isn't as complex as you make it sound. Destro pre-5.4 required more thought process than Demo does, in my opinion. Warlock class in general though, regardless of spec, is probably the most complex simply due to the revamp and nature of the class in its current state. No other DPS class has it's rotational priority list change when you get a proc, exception maybe Festerblight DK slightly.

  15. #2075
    Quote Originally Posted by icecoldsir View Post
    Demo seemed pretty strong on protectors if UVLS decided to proc, quite a few attempts I wouldn't get reliable procs though. Affy might be better, maybe demo depending on how the heavy crit setup turns out to be.
    Yeah my thoughts exactly but unless we are stuck at Protectors I will try my luck with the RNG gods and hope for UVLS. If on the other hand we are stuck on them and my dps is clearly holding us back I will just go affli and be done with it while progressing.

    I am still very undecided about Immerseus and Norushen. Any suggestions?
    Iron Jaggernaut I am leaning towards Affli, but again I would like to try Demo first and see how is goes.

    Anyone attempting to figure out what kind of gearing post-UVLS (if we get to repalce it at all)?
    With a AMP+BBoY I was thinking of mainly Crit/Mastery items + 4P or is that completely off?

  16. #2076
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazda View Post
    I honestly have nothing against you, man. But, if you're the type of person who says "All demo really has to worry about is Dooming correctly when UVLS procs, HoG weaving and using Imp Swarm wisely." then you really don't understand the spec. I've said it on these forums before, and I'll say it again. Without question, Demonology is THE most versatile, dynamic, and subtly complicated spec in the game. (obviously my opinion, but I find that many high level players agree.) The only thing I've found that comes close in terms of complexity is high skill feral druid.
    Don't know where your getting this but honestly if you think playing demo is THAT complicated you're mistaken. As Xploits said above the Warlock class as a whole is probably the most complex, but imo as far as between specs their is little difference in skill required. Most people that say otherwise usually come off as just trying to make it seem like their spec is so much harder/complicated then everyone elses when that's usually not the case at all.




    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo1444 View Post
    Yeah my thoughts exactly but unless we are stuck at Protectors I will try my luck with the RNG gods and hope for UVLS. If on the other hand we are stuck on them and my dps is clearly holding us back I will just go affli and be done with it while progressing.

    I am still very undecided about Immerseus and Norushen. Any suggestions?
    Not quite sure about Immerseus tbh, didnt get to test that boss that much. As for Norushen though I would definately say Affy, being able multi dot the adds in main room and keep good damage on boss while you have the buff is going to be amazing.

  17. #2077
    Quote Originally Posted by icecoldsir View Post
    Not quite sure about Immerseus tbh, didnt get to test that boss that much. As for Norushen though I would definately say Affy, being able multi dot the adds in main room and keep good damage on boss while you have the buff is going to be amazing.
    Yeah I agree about Norushen.

    About Immerseus what is making me think is P1 movement and P2 adds. While I know P1 will get shorter and shorter, so over time movement will be less, I am tempted to go Demo + AD instead of going Affli + KJC. P2 adds are another question mark because while I see Demo being effective enough with some burst on them, I am not sure if Affli dots are as effective given the adds health pool. This is all based on assumptions after having read and watched videos about the fight, I haven't tested it myself so might be all BS ><

    Also thanks for the tips!
    Last edited by Apollo1444; 2013-09-09 at 04:23 PM.

  18. #2078
    Hey, what would you use on Durumu 25hc and Lei Shen 25HC, MF or KJC?

  19. #2079
    Quote Originally Posted by speedy69 View Post
    Hey, what would you use on Durumu 25hc and Lei Shen 25HC, MF or KJC?
    Mf on durumu for wall damage. Kjc on Lei Shen because the balls should be gripped/stunned and mf would be useless.

  20. #2080
    Quote Originally Posted by icecoldsir View Post
    OT: The Difference between Mid tier Demo Players and Top demo players compared to affy mid players and top players isnt that different tbh. If anything its harder to do well as affliction then as demo due to the skill cap being higher (having to watch more dots, procs, power gains for reapplying dots, etc) where as all demo really has to worry about is Dooming correctly when UVLS procs, HoG weaving and using Imp Swarm wisely.
    I agree that affliction requires more awareness cause of constant procs and harder to babysit dots, but if you for some reason one miss 1 proc and get a bad dot freshing, aff is more forgiving, while missing a uvls proc or imps not spawned at right time makes a huge diference in DPS for demo.
    Warlock / IA Operative / Wizard / Engineer

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