1. #2761
    I am going demo this reset for a chang and I have read the main guide regarding trinkets but I am still not 100% sure about trinket choice for demo. I have HCWF amp, HC KTT, WF BBoY, and HC frenzied crystal.
    According to the guide hcwf amp + hc ktt, though, I would have that that wf BBoY would be better than KTT, for same reasons its better for aff; doom snapshotting, or what am I missing?

    Also which fights would you use frenzied crystal on as demo?

  2. #2762
    Amp+Blood is the best combo for demo. Crystal is complete garbage, toss that thing in the trash. The low proc rate will never make the cleave worth it on any aoe fight.
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  3. #2763
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    For Demo I stick to HC Bindings and HC KTT, as my BBoY is still only a shitty normal version. I think the difference between the two is minimal if BBoY were to be warforged.

    For BiS I'd definitely use BBoY over KTT, especially on shorter fights like IJ/Malk where that super buffed opening Doom ticks for huge amounts.

  4. #2764
    Stood in the Fire Bloodfire's Avatar
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    Only if they would've returned dat Glyph of EA, so that fights would've been superb for Demo...
    Miss these days.

  5. #2765
    Does anyone here track the GCD for ToC?

    I'm getting nitpicky and setting up non-casttime GCD bars, but they don't seem to apply for ToC.

    Advice?

  6. #2766

  7. #2767
    Quote Originally Posted by Taninsam View Post
    Actually I do. Use Gnosis.
    Edit: NVM I derped.
    Last edited by Mazda; 2014-01-20 at 06:59 PM.

  8. #2768
    If you are multidotting with Doom and it crits on another target, spawning an imp, will the imp change targets to your current target or continue to DPS the target it spawned from?

    The wording on Doom: "When Doom critically strikes, a wild imp will be summoned to attack the target."

  9. #2769
    High Overlord Santoisms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tazgoth View Post
    If you are multidotting with Doom and it crits on another target, spawning an imp, will the imp change targets to your current target or continue to DPS the target it spawned from?

    The wording on Doom: "When Doom critically strikes, a wild imp will be summoned to attack the target."
    Yes, the Imp will attack your current target.

  10. #2770
    Quote Originally Posted by Tazgoth View Post
    If you are multidotting with Doom and it crits on another target, spawning an imp, will the imp change targets to your current target or continue to DPS the target it spawned from?

    The wording on Doom: "When Doom critically strikes, a wild imp will be summoned to attack the target."
    It's a guardian, it works just like any other guardian. i.e. It will EVENTUALLY attack the target you are attacking.

  11. #2771
    Moderator Zinnin's Avatar
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    Alright, so it has been a few weeks since I started experimenting with the 14873 Haste Demo and I want to talk about it compared to 8097 Demo.

    First off, I want to start by saying that both ways of gearing are 100% viable and that choosing which way to go is entirely up to you, and how you want to manage your gear. Both ways of gearing can and will give you solid results if you're playing up to par and not fucking the important things up.

    So to start off, I am going to say that I strongly believe that 14873 is slightly better then 8097 on Patchwerk. The fun part of this tier though, is that Patchwerk was NINE tiers ago and isn't a relevant fight anymore. While we may have Single Target fights, we sure as hell don't stand around with our face in our addons anymore, however we can try to replicate it as much as possible.

    So the strengths of the higher haste build are these:
    -Slightly Stronger Opener
    -Slightly Smoother Fury Generation
    -Stronger Cooldown Phases (Thus making the damage in between less important)
    -More Breaks in Between Spells (Less of a chance on losing DPS to having to suddenly move)

    However, it does have several weaknesses compared to the higher mastery build:
    -ToC strongly devalued as any haste is 100% wasted when casting ToC
    -If you have to move during Cooldowns, you will lose tons and tons of DPS
    -High haste isn't great for Destro and lets face it you aren't playing Demo on every fight
    -Slightly less Burst AoE DPS (Haste doesn't gain you anything if you are spamming Chaos Wave)

    So that said I am going talk about the individual fights a little bit and how I would recommend you go about making the decision which way to gear.

    If any of the following are true play 8097:
    -You are facing Thok (Even at 8097 Haste you fel flame will be wasting haste during a meta gem proc, and you'll be casting a lot more ToC's then normal)
    -You can't stand in EVERYTHING on Iron Juggernaut (I literally don't move for anything at all on this fight anymore and save all defensive cooldowns for the 2nd phase because that is when you will get your second Amp proc and need to be spamming Soul Fires)
    -The Pie isn't being taken on Sha of Pride (if you can be the majority of the damage to the Reflection adds, then reforge to mastery and take that pie)
    -The Pie isn't being taken on Kor'kron Dark Shaman (if there is more then 3-4 adds up at a time because people aren't killing them, reforge to mastery and take some more pie)
    -You have to stand in every single puddle ever on Malkorok (If you have a solid partner in your slice of the room and only have to move when there is more then one, the high haste is nice)
    -You like to cast ToC
    -You don't like casting Soul Fire
    -You play Destro as well and care about the spec

    If none of those are true then I would suggest giving 14873 a whirl (14880 if you are a troll for that extra Doom point).

    Personally I have two sets of gear and run both Haste levels depending on the fight.

    BAM wall of text
    Last edited by Zinnin; 2014-01-22 at 09:41 PM.

  12. #2772
    Yadayadayadayada Demo stuff, pretty self explanatory, yadayada...

    But then,
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post

    Personally I have two sets of gear and run both Haste levels depending on the fight.

    BAM wall of text
    Wat. 0_0

  13. #2773
    Quote Originally Posted by Mazda View Post
    Wat. 0_0
    Multiple full runs of the instance with alts does that to gear.

  14. #2774
    Moderator Zinnin's Avatar
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    It isn't as hard as you would think to setup, its slightly less efficient overall but allows me to switch back and forth.

    Switching which off piece lets you gear two tier / off peices differently, second cloak is easy to pick up. Then its just juggling reforging and gems between a few pieces of gear instead of an entire set. Hardest part is hitting hit caps right.

  15. #2775
    Out of curiosity, how are you using your 2p/4p then Zinnin. At first glance it seems the lower haste builds benefit more from the set bonuses. If I get 2p procs in caster, I usually pop into meta and ToC during the buff, making the lower haste build better, I would think. Not to mention the free chaos waves with 20% extra damage.
    Speaking of 2p bonus, happen to know if supremacy would benefit more from the 20% extra damage then service? I still use service and I see many top demo locks still do, mostly for the extra fury regen during DS burn I would guess.

  16. #2776
    Moderator Zinnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veesh View Post
    Out of curiosity, how are you using your 2p/4p then Zinnin. At first glance it seems the lower haste builds benefit more from the set bonuses. If I get 2p procs in caster, I usually pop into meta and ToC during the buff, making the lower haste build better, I would think. Not to mention the free chaos waves with 20% extra damage.
    Speaking of 2p bonus, happen to know if supremacy would benefit more from the 20% extra damage then service? I still use service and I see many top demo locks still do, mostly for the extra fury regen during DS burn I would guess.
    Single Target:
    You shouldn't be getting 2p procs outside of meta to begin with. Even at 8k haste you should be saving Soul Fires for Metamorphosis, Trinkets, and Cooldowns. Your conditions for using MC is basically this:

    -If you have a Trinket proc or Dark Soul and Metamorphosis up
    -If you are at 8-9 stacks you should dump 1 stack to make sure you don't cap
    -If the boss is ~30% and any stacks you are holding on to are about to be wasted

    If you have been dry on trinket procs and are sitting on high MC stacks a good time to dump a couple is when Doom has <10s left so you can bait the damage increase for the refresh. Dumping 1-2 Stacks when you are at 7+ before a HoG weave isn't bad either.

    If you are using MC correctly you won't be reacting to 2pc procs (outside of maybe a good Doom refresh) and they will just be giving another damage increase on top of Cooldowns / Trinkets.

    This means that if you are using 4pc, the far bigger concern is making sure you are watching for 4pc procs, and are making sure to weave if you have a charge available. Keep in mind when you are weaving HoG how many MC stacks you have, when you next DS is, and how much fury you have. When you weave if you don't have any procs up you should just ToC twice and drop out, if you have a meta gem proc you should soul fire once and drop out.

    Running 8k Haste doesn't mean ToC is good, it just makes it less punitive to be casting. The only Haste point where ToC can be considered rival to Soul Fire is 3k, and I doubt anyone is running that low anymore.

    AoE:
    Basically for AoE everything above is just swapped around. You want to be spending fury on ToC to get Chaos Wave Procs and you want to be using MC in between MF uses to get as much fury as possible, and to try to bait a 2pc right before MF.

  17. #2777
    Thanks for the clarification.

  18. #2778
    imp swarm still not worth it ?

  19. #2779
    Quote Originally Posted by coupes View Post
    imp swarm still not worth it ?
    In theory no, but in practice I get better results with it than without. I find it makes Fury management a little easier and that you'll be less starved when blowing cooldowns.

  20. #2780
    was going to try it tonite , would it be better with a higher haste build im running 8100 atm http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Coupes/simple

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